szkocjasid Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 48 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: So, were do we take the line from to judge who should or shouldn't be in the SGPs? The same guys are topping the Elitserien too, so who that isn't already in the SGPs (Sayfutdinov & Laguta apart) deserves to be there? Have top 8 qualify & top 7 from a GP challenge - no wild cards needed - no arguments on who "deserves" to be there! Not gonna happen, but I can dream lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 52 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: So, were do we take the line from to judge who should or shouldn't be in the SGPs? Er... qualification 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: Don't agree it's a closed shop. The ball park is the Ekstraliga & just looking at the top 20 in the averages we pretty much get those rider's year after year. We certainly don't want to see the like of Kolodziej, Wozniak & Hampel in it anymore. The real struggle is, soon, the SGP Series could become Polish dominated if Sweden, Denmark & UK don't get their fingers out their a$$. There's not many U30s showing up & out performing the OAPs but once these guys hang up their Kevlars it's Poland all the way. Why not? If Kolodziej or Hampel qualify they deserve to be there ahead of any non- qualifiers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 12 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: That is 100% the point, just because he doesn't win rounds doesn't mean he's not GP standard. Just because he's not as good as he used to be doesn't mean he's not GP standard! When was the last time he "qualified" for a GP? In fact has he ever done the qualifying rounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, iainb said: When was the last time he "qualified" for a GP? In fact has he ever done the qualifying rounds? He's never qualified via the qualifying rounds, either got a wildcard or finished in the top 8. However neither of those mean "GP standard" that is being one of the top 15 riders in the world! I would suggest Kim Nilsson isn't really a "GP standard" rider but he 100% deserves to be there because he qualified. Then last year Bewley was clearly a "GP standard" rider but I didn't think he "deserved" to be there because he didn't qualify! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 Zmarzlik is no doubt the best rider by far and can only beat whats put in front of him but i feel hes come along at the right time. The likes of Woffinden, Doyle, Lindgren, are on the slide and are not the riders they were, the upcoming younger riders are nowhere near yet the likes of Bewley, Lambert, Holder, Magic and Dudek arent good enough to challenge so Bartoz is having a bit of a free run at the moment the two that could challenge are suspended in Emil and Artem, Far cry from the days of Crump, Rickardson, Adams, Gollob, Pedersen etc banging elbows. A poor meeting and we seem to be saying that more often than not when it comes to the GP,s. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric i Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, bellevueace said: Zmarzlik is no doubt the best rider by far and can only beat whats put in front of him but i feel hes come along at the right time. The likes of Woffinden, Doyle, Lindgren, are on the slide and are not the riders they were, the upcoming younger riders are nowhere near yet the likes of Bewley, Lambert, Holder, Magic and Dudek arent good enough to challenge so Bartoz is having a bit of a free run at the moment the two that could challenge are suspended in Emil and Artem, Far cry from the days of Crump, Rickardson, Adams, Gollob, Pedersen etc banging elbows. A poor meeting and we seem to be saying that more often than not when it comes to the GP,s. Lindgren is not young rider but I can't say I have seen any drop off in his form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted June 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 7 hours ago, iainb said: World Championship speedway should not be about who can get around a Polish track though. I'd call 3 qualifying spots pretty much a closed shop 4 !!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazS Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 6 hours ago, eric i said: Lindgren is not young rider but I can't say I have seen any drop off in his form. you need to watch some of his polish meetings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, racers and royals said: 4 !!!! yes 4 this year... marginally better than it was but it will only feature 3 of the current of the GP crop, Vaculik, Doyle & Holder... Lambert, Nilsson & Fricke failed to qualify, you could question whether the other 9, Bartek excepted, are really (and I mean really, really!) that interested in becoming World Champion. They may tell you they are but they're not really displaying the hunger that World Champions need. If they want to make a nice living milking the golden Polish t1t, that's great, don't waste everybody else's time by going through the motions in the GP every week. I'd rather watch 16 riders wanting to win something than 6 or 7 wanting to win with the rest going through the motions Edited June 25, 2023 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB252 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 8 hours ago, bellevueace said: Far cry from the days of Crump, Rickardson, Adams, Gollob, Pedersen etc banging elbows. A poor meeting and we seem to be saying that more often than not when it comes to the GP,s. Time can cloud memories. Did they ever really 'bang elbows' as you put it? The only thing that springs to mind is Tony knocking Nicki off in Berlin accidentally. Incidents, racing and genuine controversy between those riders was few and far between. Many of the seasons that featured those riders, someone got hold of the series lead from the first round and retained it all year. Certainly, none of them produced a final of such breathtaking on the edge brilliance, as some of the finals Zmarzlik seems to churn out on a yearly basis, apart from Gollob on Jimmy Nilsen in Wroclaw 1999. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secsy1 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 The GP series is now over. Boring tracks with no dirt, second rate and over the top riders coining it in and going through the motions. Crowd was not as large as normal for a Polish GP. Last night was a season ending watch for me as it is boring. What would interest me is seeing Zmarzlik in UK? How would he fare on a tricky track like Wolverhampton? So until he appears here wont be visiting any meetings until then, in other words retiring from actively watching live speedway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepturningleft Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 12 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: Utterly dire GP on what is meant to be a decent race track. Only decent race was the final but Zmarzlik just hasn’t got any real opposition. Turn the clock back 10-15 years ago and the event was far more competitive. Today it’s who can stop Zmarzlik, and the answer is no one. Especially as it’s so Polish based and raced on a tr5ck Zmarzlik knows like the back of his hands. Utterly, utterly boring to be honest and a real shame. I have always looked forwards to the GP series but frankly it’s hardly worth the time. So this will be your final post on the GP's because you won't be watching any more...right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, secsy1 said: What would interest me is seeing Zmarzlik in UK? How would he fare on a tricky track like Wolverhampton? He would maybe take 1 or 2 rides to sus the place out and then he'd be awesome... the guy is class. Like you I would love to see it though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB252 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 Just now, iainb said: He would maybe take 1 or 2 rides to sus the place out and then he'd be awesome... the guy is class. Spot on. He had a small track in his back yard when he was a kid, hence why he has such tremendous throttle control and the ability to turn the bike so hard. Clearly had that not been the case he may have had to consider riding in the UK regularly to develop those skills. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted June 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 31 minutes ago, secsy1 said: The GP series is now over. Boring tracks with no dirt, second rate and over the top riders coining it in and going through the motions. Crowd was not as large as normal for a Polish GP. Last night was a season ending watch for me as it is boring. What would interest me is seeing Zmarzlik in UK? How would he fare on a tricky track like Wolverhampton? So until he appears here wont be visiting any meetings until then, in other words retiring from actively watching live speedway. Congratulations !!! Going through the motions- 110% racing from the riders every GP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 Some riders might be able to nail Bartosz if they could get near enough.!! If you watch Lambert ,a number off times he has more speed the the others down the straight but backs off.That’s the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 Going to be interesting to see how many regulars that don’t finish inTop6 will be given Wildcards especially if Emil and Artum are reinstated ( which I think they should be).Couple of regulars lost out in GP Qualifiers as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 What a load of crap people write on here Zmarzlik is the best around and maybe the competition isn’t the best but he is still a class act and would have won titles in any era Got to laugh at people saying Doyle and Lindgren are past it lol … 2nd and 3rd in the world but last it lol… And those saying Tai shouldn’t get a wildcard lol…. The guy is 9th in the world so please go ahead and find 7 riders who should be in above him …. Only Emil and Laguta but nobody else….do people expect all 15 riders to be capable of winning a world title lol…… back in the days of the one off there was always only ever 6 or 7 riders you thought could win it … the night of a GP is no different…… I wouldn’t expect the likes of Michelsen Thomson and Nilsson to win a GP but they could and in Thomsens case already have ….. in the one off none of the eastern block could win it and in my first one in 1990 you also had riders like Miller Dugard Correy who you wouldn’t have given a chance to. So yes Tai isn’t a rostrum challenger but find 15 riders better than him you won’t ….. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 Over the last few years the GP Series has got more and more boring. You watch a pretty boring meeting but then have the mindset that the next one will be better so you tune in again and hey presto, it's another boring one. Overall, not much excitement and very little real controversy. Riders too pally with each other, no real characters and the whole thing has become rather stale. No one to challenge the current champ (not his fault) and the emphasis quickly shifts to who is going to qualify for next year as opposed to who is going to be world champion. To liven things up why don't they have a wild card track every year, each participating country could nominate two tracks so the UK for instance could name Wolverhampton and Redcar. A draw is then made live on TV and a meeting is held at that particular venue. Just an idea of course but the series needs major surgery. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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