szkocjasid Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 Thought the ref got all the decisions right (not many to make). All 4 in the first running of the final was sensible, then imo made a very easy decision to exclude Doyle. If there was any contact with Lindgren's dirt deflector it was very minimal & Doyle could certainly have stayed on, just laid it down for a re-run for me! Thought Zmarzlik was VERY tough on Madsen in the final, bordering on dangerous & I thought should he be excluded for that? As I saw it he practically went full pelt into the corner willing to t-bone Madsen into the fence! Then when I watched the re-plays, it didn't seem quite as bad, still a tough move though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 8:09 PM, CB252 said: Lol he didn't stand up to him at all. They both won 5 GPs and each gave as good as they got passing each other multiple times in the process. The difference at the end was 5th place and a win and 4th place and a win in the last two GPs. Laguta's credentials are one unlikely title win and not even qualifying for the series on merit in any other year, while Zmarzlik's are a GP medal in 6 out of 7 seasons and comfortable qualification the other season. Top of the ekstraliga aves 7 out of the last 8 years? Expand Spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 8:58 PM, Fromafar said: Woffy tell us before the meeting his bikes are 10-15% fastest than any off the others,why can’t he beat them then.Just hanging around on the gravy train. Expand Made himself look rather silly IMO ,a great rider once now no longer GP standard ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) On 6/24/2023 at 9:28 PM, szkocjasid said: Thought the ref got all the decisions right (not many to make). All 4 in the first running of the final was sensible, then imo made a very easy decision to exclude Doyle. If there was any contact with Lindgren's dirt deflector it was very minimal & Doyle could certainly have stayed on, just laid it down for a re-run for me! Thought Zmarzlik was VERY tough on Madsen in the final, bordering on dangerous & I thought should he be excluded for that? As I saw it he practically went full pelt into the corner willing to t-bone Madsen into the fence! Then when I watched the re-plays, it didn't seem quite as bad, still a tough move though! Expand His signature move... If the riders move over and allow it, then fair play to him for keeping doing it... Edit A few weeks ago I watched Nicki P change his line and rode about four yards from the kerb down the straight when Bartek was doing his usual "nail them on the apex"... On this occasion Bartek had to bail out or hit Nicki's back wheel as he cut across him... Nicki obviously watches him race, maybe one or two of the GP lads could do the same,, ... Edited June 24, 2023 by mikebv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) On 6/24/2023 at 7:49 PM, TTT said: Laguta and Emil are the only ones who can challenge Zmarzlik. Whole GP series is pointless until they're allowed back in it. Expand Don't agree with that, there's still a world title to be won, plus rostrum places & top 6 spots to be earned. Tbh ever since permanent wild cards were introduced back in the early 2000s there hasn't always been the best riders in the series. I certainly remember Hans Andersen not getting a pick in 04/05/06? After he had slagged off some GP tracks the previous season so a weaker Iversen was given a wild card, that was the year there were no qualifiers, only top 8 & 7 wild card picks. I do feel Laguta & Sayfutdinov should be allowed to ride as neutrals, but don't think they'd stop Zmarzlik tbh. But would probably lead to better racing! Edited June 24, 2023 by szkocjasid Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 9:43 PM, mikebv said: His signature move... If the riders move over and allow it, then fair play to him for keeping doing it... Edit A few weeks ago I watched Nicki P change his line and rode about four yards from the kerb down the straight when Bartek was doing his usual "nail them on the apex"... On this occasion Bartek had to bail out or hit Nicki's back wheel as he cut across him... Nicki obviously watches him race, maybe one or two of the GP lads could do the same,, ... Expand In this case Madsen probably felt he had to move out of the way or end up in the fence? I suppose if Zmarzlik comes out of the bend on the racing line i'd call it a fair move, if he runs up to the fence leaving no space, I'd call it a foul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 9:43 PM, FAST GATER said: Made himself look rather silly IMO ,a great rider once now no longer GP standard ! Expand Just going through the motions nowadays,the Polish League is his main earnings so can’t afford any mishaps.Has some poor meetings there these days can see Wroclaw looking elsewhere in the not too distant future. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) On 6/24/2023 at 9:50 PM, szkocjasid said: In this case Madsen probably felt he had to move out of the way or end up in the fence? I suppose if Zmarzlik comes out of the bend on the racing line i'd call it a fair move, if he runs up to the fence leaving no space, I'd call it a foul Expand Hard riding and late,it gave Madsen very little chance of reading the move and doing a cut back.That’s his trademark move though. Edited June 24, 2023 by Fromafar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 9:43 PM, szkocjasid said: Don't agree with that, there's still a world told to be won, plus rostrum places & top 6 spots to be earned. Tbh ever since permanent wild cards were introduced back in the early 2000s there hasn't always been the best riders in the series. I certainly remember Hans Andersen not getting a pick in 04/05/06? After he had slagged off some GP tracks the previous season so a weaker Iversen was given a wild card, that was the year there were no qualifiers, only top 8 & 7 wild card picks. I do feel Laguta & Sayfutdinov should be allowed to ride as neutrals, but don't think they'd stop Zmarzlik tbh. But would probably lead to better racing! Expand The standard of rider is fine. .. The tracks are the problem. .. Artem and Emil would enhance the series without a doubt, but all riders need a track that can showcase their unique talents.. How is Phil Morris still being allowed to produce such dire tracks, ,? Even on tracks that deliver great racing each weekend in Poland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 9:43 PM, FAST GATER said: Made himself look rather silly IMO ,a great rider once now no longer GP standard ! Expand Woffinden has declined significantly, the World Cup is a concern as he's certainly not were he should be with form. As for GP standard, there's not many rider's in the World right now I'd take him out the 15 for. Sayfutdinov & Laguta are the obvious but I can't pick 15 rider's ahead of him, that makes him GP standard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 9:51 PM, Fromafar said: Just going through the motions nowadays,the Polish League is his main earnings so can’t afford any mishaps.Has some poor meetings there these days can see Wroclaw looking elsewhere in the not too distant future. Expand Agree regarding Exstraliga, currently 20th in the CMAs, but in terms of the SGPs there's not many ahead of him in the CMAs who aren't already in the SGP worth putting in or add anything to the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 10:04 PM, Daniel Smith said: Woffinden has declined significantly, the World Cup is a concern as he's certainly not were he should be with form. As for GP standard, there's not many rider's in the World right now I'd take him out the 15 for. Sayfutdinov & Laguta are the obvious but I can't pick 15 rider's ahead of him, that makes him GP standard. Expand That's what I was getting at with Holder & Bewley... it was debatable when they were given their places in the GP that they were up to that standard... but being in the GP series has made them genuine world class riders. How many more could that apply to? We'll never know because it's a closed shop 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 9:43 PM, mikebv said: His signature move... If the riders move over and allow it, then fair play to him for keeping doing it... Edit A few weeks ago I watched Nicki P change his line and rode about four yards from the kerb down the straight when Bartek was doing his usual "nail them on the apex"... On this occasion Bartek had to bail out or hit Nicki's back wheel as he cut across him... Nicki obviously watches him race, maybe one or two of the GP lads could do the same,, ... Expand Or maybe, Nicki should make a comeback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 10:12 PM, iainb said: That's what I was getting at with Holder & Bewley... it was debatable when they were given their places in the GP that they were up to that standard... but being in the GP series has made them genuine world class riders. How many more could that apply to? We'll never know because it's a closed shop Expand Don't agree it's a closed shop. The ball park is the Ekstraliga & just looking at the top 20 in the averages we pretty much get those rider's year after year. We certainly don't want to see the like of Kolodziej, Wozniak & Hampel in it anymore. The real struggle is, soon, the SGP Series could become Polish dominated if Sweden, Denmark & UK don't get their fingers out their a$$. There's not many U30s showing up & out performing the OAPs but once these guys hang up their Kevlars it's Poland all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeW436 Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 10:12 PM, iainb said: That's what I was getting at with Holder & Bewley... it was debatable when they were given their places in the GP that they were up to that standard... but being in the GP series has made them genuine world class riders. How many more could that apply to? We'll never know because it's a closed shop Expand Michelssen, Thomson, Dudek, Woffinden and Janowski all had more than enough chances imo, they should have to earn their places 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) On 6/24/2023 at 10:27 PM, Daniel Smith said: Don't agree it's a closed shop. The ball park is the Ekstraliga & just looking at the top 20 in the averages we pretty much get those rider's year after year. We certainly don't want to see the like of Kolodziej, Wozniak & Hampel in it anymore. The real struggle is, soon, the SGP Series could become Polish dominated if Sweden, Denmark & UK don't get their fingers out their a$$. There's not many U30s showing up & out performing the OAPs but once these guys hang up their Kevlars it's Poland all the way. Expand World Championship speedway should not be about who can get around a Polish track though. I'd call 3 qualifying spots pretty much a closed shop Edited June 24, 2023 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 10:36 PM, iainb said: World Championship speedway should not be about who can get around a Polish track though Expand So, were do we take the line from to judge who should or shouldn't be in the SGPs? The same guys are topping the Elitserien too, so who that isn't already in the SGPs (Sayfutdinov & Laguta apart) deserves to be there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric i Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 9:54 PM, mikebv said: The standard of rider is fine. .. The tracks are the problem. .. Artem and Emil would enhance the series without a doubt, but all riders need a track that can showcase their unique talents.. How is Phil Morris still being allowed to produce such dire tracks, ,? Even on tracks that deliver great racing each weekend in Poland? Expand Gorzow is not a good track in the league either, Discovery is choosing tracks that make them the most money rather than tracks that showcase speedway at its finest. I think Discovery signed a 4/5 year deal with Gorzow so we can look forward to a few more years of Gorzow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelinho Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 8:58 PM, Fromafar said: Woffy tell us before the meeting his bikes are 10-15% fastest than any off the others,why can’t he beat them then.Just hanging around on the gravy train. Expand I was thinking that… does he realise, if the bikes are 15% faster, he must be 25% slower? I don’t mind Zmarzlik winning, but I do mind the lack of any real racing. Too much from the gate. Hold a round at Ashfield. They’ll bitch about it being dangerous for the first eight heats, and when they realise they can roll off the throttle it’ll get a lot better. Added bonus: Phil Morris won’t get in so the track won’t drown. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 9:43 PM, FAST GATER said: Made himself look rather silly IMO ,a great rider once now no longer GP standard ! Expand On 6/24/2023 at 10:04 PM, Daniel Smith said: Woffinden has declined significantly, the World Cup is a concern as he's certainly not were he should be with form. As for GP standard, there's not many rider's in the World right now I'd take him out the 15 for. Sayfutdinov & Laguta are the obvious but I can't pick 15 rider's ahead of him, that makes him GP standard. Expand That is 100% the point, just because he doesn't win rounds doesn't mean he's not GP standard. Just because he's not as good as he used to be doesn't mean he's not GP standard! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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