Riders who give up when at the back

[IronScorpion]

21 hours ago, Chris116 said:

An often mentioned dislike of many speedway fans is riders who give up when in 4th place in a race. I think a simple way of stopping such things would be to change the scoring system to 4,3,2,1 for the finishers in a race with any rider who does not finish getting 0 and no pay for the race. I think that would ensure it was very rare for a rider failed to finish.

 

18 hours ago, Baldyman said:

So instead of giving up,,, they will poodle around at the back and get paid for it,,,,, yeah great idea 

There are rules to stop this as is deemed "not Racing" but is hardly ever enforced by the referee as difficult to prove(ha).

[steve roberts]

4 hours ago, Toady said:

Interested to know where said rider made it public that when at back he did not try ?

Some take every opportunity to repeat this but have never even seen said rider 

The rider in question apparently mentioned it on social media. Both my brothers have witnessed him ride on separate occasions this season.

Edited November 16, 2022 by steve roberts

[Wee Eck]

6 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

But it's all relative. If you only awarded points for finishing ahead of an opposition rider, and structured pay rates accordingly, bonus points wouldn't be necessary.

The absurdity of bonus points is illustrated by the fact that in a 45-45 draw, one team could be paying out for 60 points whilst the other is only paying out for 45.

In general, bonus points inflate CMAs by about 5 points on average, but weighed more heavily on teams that more commonly team rode (although that seems to be a thing of the past nowadays). So they should really be removed from team building calculations.

Bonus points don’t count in official CMAs and, as someone said, haven’t for over 15 years. For some bizarre reason, the Speedway Star still includes them in averages which seems pointless (no pun intended) to me

[steve roberts]

17 minutes ago, Wee Eck said:

Bonus points don’t count in official CMAs and, as someone said, haven’t for over 15 years. For some bizarre reason, the Speedway Star still includes them in averages which seems pointless (no pun intended) to me

I'm guessing that the "Official " average (do "Green Sheet" averages still exist?) does include bonus points (but excluded when declaring a team under whatever the points limit may be) otherwise you'd have the scenario whereby riders who put emphasis on their average (and there have been plenty of examples over the years) would view things very different if bonus points weren't included?

Edited November 16, 2022 by steve roberts

[Racin Jason 72]

36 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

The rider in question apparently mentioned it on social media. Both my brothers have witnessed him ride on separate occasions this season.

My guess is Troy Batchelor

[NeilWatson]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

I'm guessing that the "Official " average (do "Green Sheet" averages still exist?) does include bonus points (but excluded when declaring a team under whatever the points limit may be) otherwise you'd have the scenario whereby riders who put emphasis on their average (and there have been plenty of examples over the years) would view things very different if bonus points weren't included?

The Green Sheets do exist and are the only averages that are used for team building and any other official purpose. Bonus points are EXCLUDED from the calculation.

Any other average should be ignored, including those on the BSPL website ‘Rider Statistics’ page and those in the Speedway Star.

Edited November 16, 2022 by NeilWatson

[Toady]

57 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

The rider in question apparently mentioned it on social media. Both my brothers have witnessed him ride on separate occasions this season.

As said however all conjecture

[Fromafar]

Many riders give up the ghost after a couple of laps and just settle for what they have,it just they make it look good.Explain how a rider can win a race then in his next outing can be the length of the straight behind when the race is won in the same time as his with no obvious reason.That’s speedway though,they are not going to thrash their engine if they are getting beat.You would expect them to be a bit closer on race time.

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, Toady said:

As said however all conjecture

...did he refer to it on social media as I was reliably informed? If true a daft admission to make as it wouldn't actually adhere him to the fans.

Edited November 16, 2022 by steve roberts

[steve roberts]

56 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Many riders give up the ghost after a couple of laps and just settle for what they have,it just they make it look good.Explain how a rider can win a race then in his next outing can be the length of the straight behind when the race is won in the same time as his with no obvious reason.That’s speedway though,they are not going to thrash their engine if they are getting beat.You would expect them to be a bit closer on race time.

...I'm sure many a rider past and present after the first couple of bends just sit back and consolidate their postion. Some are referred to as just "gaters" and some just don't have the natural ability to make a pass successfully. That's why the fans generally appreciate a "trier" and riders who give the impression of giving it a go.

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, NeilWatson said:

The Green Sheets do exist and are the only averages that are used for team building and any other official purpose. Bonus points are EXCLUDED from the calculation.

Any other average should be ignored, including those on the BSPL website ‘Rider Statistics’ page and those in the Speedway Star.

I recall that for one season at least it was decided to introduce a "Home" & "Away" average so that the choice of a guest would represent a truer reflection of the rider he was due to replace? Personally I though it a good initiative but I guess there were some who found it frought with difficulties as regards administering same.

[arnieg]

2 hours ago, NeilWatson said:

The Green Sheets do exist and are the only averages that are used for team building and any other official purpose. Bonus points are EXCLUDED from the calculation.

Any other average should be ignored, including those on the BSPL website ‘Rider Statistics’ page and those in the Speedway Star.

But they aren't green anymore 

[steve roberts]

6 hours ago, IronScorpion said:

 

There are rules to stop this as is deemed "not Racing" but is hardly ever enforced by the referee as difficult to prove(ha).

I remember two Workington riders (?) back in the early seventies who were both excluded for not making a "bona fida attempt to race" when the only two riders in the race after the oppostion riders had been excluded for one reason or another.

[Gambo]

3 hours ago, arnieg said:

But they aren't green anymore 

I can make them green if you wish. 

[Toady]

18 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...did he refer to it on social media as I was reliably informed? If true a daft admission to make as it wouldn't actually adhere him to the fans.

I prefer to read things and see for myself before posting more than once about said rider who is certainly not as good as he was.

But one only has to check out some of the YouTube videos from Swindon 2019 campaign to see him at his best.

[steve roberts]

3 hours ago, Toady said:

I prefer to read things and see for myself before posting more than once about said rider who is certainly not as good as he was.

But one only has to check out some of the YouTube videos from Swindon 2019 campaign to see him at his best.

...the link was posted to me so I was able to read the message. Unfortunately I am unable to forward links/photos etc as I don't know how to although I've tried! Perhaps somebody who has access to social media (I don't do Twitter or Facebook) outlets may well come across the link if they so desire or are indeed even interested?

I only brought the subject up again as it seemed relevant to this particular thread's "heading" but if it causes offence then I apologise.

Edited November 17, 2022 by steve roberts

[geoff100]

18 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I remember two Workington riders (?) back in the early seventies who were both excluded for not making a "bona fida attempt to race" when the only two riders in the race after the oppostion riders had been excluded for one reason or another.

Think was mal mackay vic londsdale first away match at a wet rochdale.

[Falcon1983]

i've not read all replies but maybe 4-3-2-1 could work if the rider finishing last crosses the line within a fixed time limit after the race winner, stops riders just cruising around at the back for that one point, will make them be under full power

[WembleyLion]

Surprised Krzysztof Kasprzak hasn’t had a mention yet given the title thread.

Edited November 18, 2022 by WembleyLion

[ch958]

On 11/16/2022 at 7:58 PM, steve roberts said:

I remember two Workington riders (?) back in the early seventies who were both excluded for not making a "bona fida attempt to race" when the only two riders in the race after the oppostion riders had been excluded for one reason or another.

I remember two Canterbury riders at Teesside in 1968 being excluded for the same reason. There were 4 in the race but they just tootled around at the back. I think Ken Vale was one and maybe Pat Flanaghan. 50 odd years ago haha