Riders who give up when at the back

[Chris116]

An often mentioned dislike of many speedway fans is riders who give up when in 4th place in a race. I think a simple way of stopping such things would be to change the scoring system to 4,3,2,1 for the finishers in a race with any rider who does not finish getting 0 and no pay for the race. I think that would ensure it was very rare for a rider failed to finish.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Chris116

[steve roberts]

9 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

An often mentioned dislike of many speedway fans is riders who give up when in 4th place in a race. I think a simple way of stopping such things would be to change the scoring system to 4,3,2,1 for the finishers in a race with any rider who does not finish getting 0 and no pay for the race. I think that would ensure it was very rare a rider failed to finish.

An interesting one. I remember on more than one occasion where the rider running a last has pulled up only for one of the others to either fall or suffer an engine failure thereby losing a point and grief on the terraces.

[TheGuvnor]

An interesting suggestion. The sport is probably too long in the tooth for such a radical change though. Promoters aren’t going to want to pay last place money either when cost cutting is what makes the world go round at present. 

[2ndbendbeerhut]

2 hours ago, Chris116 said:

An often mentioned dislike of many speedway fans is riders who give up when in 4th place in a race. I think a simple way of stopping such things would be to change the scoring system to 4,3,2,1 for the finishers in a race with any rider who does not finish getting 0 and no pay for the race. I think that would ensure it was very rare a rider failed to finish.

Cycle speedway scoring. also means a rider excluded is punished for their exclusion. good idea... meaning it will never happen

[Baldyman]

So instead of giving up,,, they will poodle around at the back and get paid for it,,,,, yeah great idea 

[False dawn]

A rider not pushing to the chequered flag when last is fixable in two ways.

1. Riders take a more professional approach to the participation.

2. A rider clearly demonstrating a "can't be arsed" attitude, should have his arse kicked by the team manager on every occasion (regardless of the rider's status or seniority).

[steve roberts]

Different scenario I know but wasn't there a rider for Oxford this year who went public and stated that if he missed the gate he would just ride round not making an effort to pass the rider in front?

[False dawn]

28 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Different scenario I know but wasn't there a rider for Oxford this year who went public and stated that if he missed the gate he would just ride round not making an effort to pass the rider in front?

Would you re-sign such a rider?

[steve roberts]

3 minutes ago, False dawn said:

Would you re-sign such a rider?

Certainly not!

[TheGuvnor]

33 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Different scenario I know but wasn't there a rider for Oxford this year who went public and stated that if he missed the gate he would just ride round not making an effort to pass the rider in front?

Not the attitude to take in a dangerous sport such as Speedway. More likely to get hurt or hurt someone else if you’re half-assing it. 

[PotteringAround]

4 hours ago, Chris116 said:

. I think a simple way of stopping such things would be to change the scoring system to 4,3,2,1 for the finishers in a race with any rider who does not finish getting 0 and no pay for the race.

Daft idea.

Suppose you're way ahead on a 5-1.  One of your riders has an engine failure.    You end up with a 3-3.    It's gutting you've lost that 4-point advantage, but you still get a share of the heat.

Change to 4-3-2-1

You're way ahead on a 7-3.  One of your riders has an engine failure.    You end up losing the heat 5-4.  How silly would that look?  Not only do you lose your 4-point advantage, but you're outscored by 2 riders who were miles behind.

[Humphrey Appleby]

I think points should only be scored for finishing ahead of an opposition rider. There shouldn't be any reward for finishing 3rd and 4th and would avoid the inflationary problem of bonus points.

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I think points should only be scored for finishing ahead of an opposition rider. There shouldn't be any reward for finishing 3rd and 4th and would avoid the inflationary problem of bonus points.

...that would involve looking into how averages are calculated. Many riders deem that their individual average is important hence why bonus points were introduced to stop same team riders racing against each other. However whether bonus points should be included when declaring a team under a points limit is another question (I think it was tried on one occasion)?

[IainB]

Nicki Pedersen is/was the rider that immediately springs to mind for me. He's only really interested in coming first and the amount of times you just see him giving up when he's at the back is an insult to fans. 

[steve roberts]

17 minutes ago, iainb said:

Nicki Pedersen is/was the rider that immediately springs to mind for me. He's only really interested in coming first and the amount of times you just see him giving up when he's at the back is an insult to fans. 

We had Nicki Pedersen at Cowley for a handful of matches until he "fell out" with Nigel Wagstaff in the pits at Peterborough? Personally I was glad to see the back of him!

[TheGuvnor]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...that would involve looking into how averages are calculated. Many riders deem that their individual average is important hence why bonus points were introduced to stop same team riders racing against each other. However whether bonus points should be included when declaring a team under a points limit is another question (I think it was tried on one occasion)?

I think averages including bonus points for team building was the norm until 2006/7. 

[FAST GATER]

I remember Paul O'Neil( one of the best gaters of the day) did a season  at Elle Port in the 1973  would often pull up in last palce  because reputedly his   philosophy was  "not blowing a motor for third I'm here for them to try to  pass me not the other way around " .

[Humphrey Appleby]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...that would involve looking into how averages are calculated. Many riders deem that their individual average is important hence why bonus points were introduced to stop same team riders racing against each other. However whether bonus points should be included when declaring a team under a points limit is another question (I think it was tried on one occasion)?

But it's all relative. If you only awarded points for finishing ahead of an opposition rider, and structured pay rates accordingly, bonus points wouldn't be necessary.

The absurdity of bonus points is illustrated by the fact that in a 45-45 draw, one team could be paying out for 60 points whilst the other is only paying out for 45.

In general, bonus points inflate CMAs by about 5 points on average, but weighed more heavily on teams that more commonly team rode (although that seems to be a thing of the past nowadays). So they should really be removed from team building calculations.

[geoff100]

Robert ericsson(sic) when riding for newcastle and edinborough allways pulled up when last.

[Toady]

Interested to know where said rider made it public that when at back he did not try ?

Some take every opportunity to repeat this but have never even seen said rider