Birmingham Brummies 2023

[HGould]

6 hours ago, GiveusaB said:

I think the way forward would be to 'create' a Midlands Speedway Venue and have B'ham, Cov, Cradley, Wolves, share the facility.

It's not an impossible task....

I think there is merit to that but with a rather massive caveat. 

Cradley fans didn't support Heathens in numbers at PB, they did at Monmore. 

Bees fans didn't support Bees at Leicester. 

Speedway in the West Midlands has always been very tribal. Soccer is probably more tribal in Birmingham and the Black Country as anywhere. 

Having said that Wolves have a good following, Brummies a hardcore of 500, Cradley had a similar hardcore a few years ago in last ndl season. We can only guess Coventry level. 

Romantically those clubs could return. 

Purely pragmatically and IF all 4 clubs ceased to exist, is there a left field opportunity? 

If Essex, Kent and Somerset can be branded for Speedway purposes, could West Midlands Midlanders be viable option at a central site?? 

[Petecc]

3 minutes ago, HGould said:

I think there is merit to that but with a rather massive caveat. 

Cradley fans didn't support Heathens in numbers at PB, they did at Monmore. 

Bees fans didn't support Bees at Leicester. 

Speedway in the West Midlands has always been very tribal. Soccer is probably more tribal in Birmingham and the Black Country as anywhere. 

Having said that Wolves have a good following, Brummies a hardcore of 500, Cradley had a similar hardcore a few years ago in last ndl season. We can only guess Coventry level. 

Romantically those clubs could return. 

Purely pragmatically and IF all 4 clubs ceased to exist, is there a left field opportunity? 

If Essex, Kent and Somerset can be branded for Speedway purposes, could West Midlands Midlanders be viable option at a central site?? 

Another idea that has to be looked into.  Club colours of  red green Amber orange yellow white red and black could be a challenge. 

[Ben91]

27 minutes ago, HGould said:

I think there is merit to that but with a rather massive caveat. 

Cradley fans didn't support Heathens in numbers at PB, they did at Monmore. 

Bees fans didn't support Bees at Leicester. 

Speedway in the West Midlands has always been very tribal. Soccer is probably more tribal in Birmingham and the Black Country as anywhere. 

Having said that Wolves have a good following, Brummies a hardcore of 500, Cradley had a similar hardcore a few years ago in last ndl season. We can only guess Coventry level. 

Romantically those clubs could return. 

Purely pragmatically and IF all 4 clubs ceased to exist, is there a left field opportunity? 

If Essex, Kent and Somerset can be branded for Speedway purposes, could West Midlands Midlanders be viable option at a central site?? 

I think herein lies the answer. Fans won’t flock to a venue and team that were once their rivals. Should a new venture start with no ties to former clubs (and therefore no rivalries), then it becomes a more palatable option for otherwise partisan fans of other clubs. 

[SteveLyric2]

1 hour ago, Ben91 said:

I think herein lies the answer. Fans won’t flock to a venue and team that were once their rivals. Should a new venture start with no ties to former clubs (and therefore no rivalries), then it becomes a more palatable option for otherwise partisan fans of other clubs. 

Still a better option if faced with losing your club totally

[HGould]

It's very frustrating that one of the most obvious places for any new Sports Stadium in the area, which is adjacent to Birmingham Airport and the NEC, massive infrastructure, easy access train and motorway, no noise issues, massive advertising potential is mostly in the Council Area of Solihull and not Birmingham. 

A lot of land adjacent to M42, M6 and M5 and in the case of the M6 and M42 corridor lots of land laid waste by HS2 excavations. In fact mile after mile of it. 

 

[uk_martin]

On 9/3/2023 at 2:21 PM, heathen52 said:

the council who own PB may feel duty bound to provide the Brummies with an alternative venue.

The Council who own Perry Barr are effectively bankrupt and aren't in a position to take on any new financial obligations.

[ruffdiamond]

2 hours ago, uk_martin said:

The Council who own Perry Barr are effectively bankrupt and aren't in a position to take on any new financial obligations.

A can't really get my head around this. Isn't the Council local Government?

So, if the Local Government is bankrupt, does the General Government not help them out?

Maybe just sell off any assets (to foreign investors) and, go from there?

[HGould]

2 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

A can't really get my head around this. Isn't the Council local Government?

So, if the Local Government is bankrupt, does the General Government not help them out?

Maybe just sell off any assets (to foreign investors) and, go from there?

Almost all Councils of all political persuasions have seen their central Government Grant slashed in real terms by 50% since 2010.

Birmingham has had to pay out over £1 billion since 2012 after the 2004 to 2012 Tory led Council lost a Court case about pay inequality in 2010.

Councils in Thurrock, Croydon and Woking already declared bankruptcy and they have got no Govt help and they are Conservative. 

Many other Councils on a knife edge too led by various parties. 

 

[heathen52]

2 hours ago, uk_martin said:

The Council who own Perry Barr are effectively bankrupt and aren't in a position to take on any new financial obligations.

 I was going to make this a short reply, Developers want to develop the land so by paying for a speedway track to be put in on land provided for by the Council is a minimal outlay for developers as an example see (Burton RFC) and no financial outlay by the Council, There is no doubts that the council has the land it's the suitability to stage Speedway that is the major issue, I suggest you go and have a chat with Nigel T and see what he wants for the Brummies.

Edited September 5, 2023 by heathen52

[ruffdiamond]

23 minutes ago, HGould said:

Almost all Councils of all political persuasions have seen their central Government Grant slashed in real terms by 50% since 2010.

Birmingham has had to pay out over £1 billion since 2012 after the 2004 to 2012 Tory led Council lost a Court case about pay inequality in 2010.

Councils in Thurrock, Croydon and Woking already declared bankruptcy and they have got no Govt help and they are Conservative. 

Many other Councils on a knife edge too led by various parties. 

 

So, when a Council goes bankrupt, who does all the stuff that the Council is meant to do?

[HGould]

1 minute ago, ruffdiamond said:

So, when a Council goes bankrupt, who does all the stuff that the Council is meant to do?

It's technical bankruptcy not full

They carry on running essential services under supervision and have to be monitored. 

[Biffa]

Said on the radio today that it cost approx 1/2 billion pounds to build the Commonwealth Games Village but it wasn’t finished in time so the athletes had to be put up elsewhere. Don’t know if true but shocking if it is. 

[ruffdiamond]

3 minutes ago, HGould said:

It's technical bankruptcy not full

They carry on running essential services under supervision and have to be monitored. 

A see, so they carry on but, under the watchful eye of 'the insolvency guy'?,,, making sure they're not wastefully using money, (best of luck to them). 

Not really akin to a normal bankruptcy then? 

[ruffdiamond]

2 minutes ago, Biffa said:

Said on the radio today that it cost approx 1/2 billion pounds to build the Commonwealth Games Village but it wasn’t finished in time so the athletes had to be put up elsewhere. Don’t know if true but shocking if it is. 

When does the Council ever do anything on time? 

[GiveusaB]

On 9/4/2023 at 3:29 PM, Ben91 said:

I think herein lies the answer. Fans won’t flock to a venue and team that were once their rivals. Should a new venture start with no ties to former clubs (and therefore no rivalries), then it becomes a more palatable option for otherwise partisan fans of other clubs. 

Then it's a sad world we live in.

About time people got over their egos!

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by GiveusaB

[Brummies_Ste]

57 minutes ago, Biffa said:

Said on the radio today that it cost approx 1/2 billion pounds to build the Commonwealth Games Village but it wasn’t finished in time so the athletes had to be put up elsewhere. Don’t know if true but shocking if it is. 

This is part true not sure about the half billion figure but the site for the village is now  a housing site with hundreds of houses & flats.

Also the Commonwealth games made a profit & the money has been used for various projects across the city.  

 

[Ben91]

10 minutes ago, GiveusaB said:

Then it's a sad world we live in.

About time people got over their egos!

 

That’s the tribal aspect of sport I suppose. 

I don’t really get it with Speedway, but then Rye House never had huge local rivals so the option of popping down the road to see some speedway at a rival track isn’t there for me. 

That said, if my football team closed down I would absolutely not be going to support our rivals even if they did happen to be the next closest team to watch. 

[uk_martin]

2 hours ago, Biffa said:

Said on the radio today that it cost approx 1/2 billion pounds to build the Commonwealth Games Village but it wasn’t finished in time so the athletes had to be put up elsewhere. Don’t know if true but shocking if it is. 

The Pandemic got in the way of timescales, so yes, the athletes were put up in Student Accommodation on the University campuses in Birmingham. 

The construction of 947 apartments on the site of the former University, which can be clearly seen on photos of the stadium was finished not long after the Commonwealth Games. And to this date, not a single person lives in any of them. Not one has been sold and not one has been rented out. And nobody has any idea when the rest of the development site is going to be started upon, which will feature more apartments between those already constructed and the One Stop Shopping Centre (to the south of the stadium) and an estate of town houses that will be built between the apartments and Wellhead Lane.

All this available development land and all these unoccupied properties, and someone thinks it's a great idea to tear down a functioning facility in order to build more apartments that might also never be sold or rented. It Beggers belief.

[uk_martin]

14 hours ago, HGould said:

after the 2004 to 2012 Tory led Council lost a Court case about pay inequality in 2010

Oh wow, Love the way that you can't resist a dig at the Tories for their 8 years in tenure, in which they were actually in coalition with the Lib/Dems. So, it's all their fault now? Nothing to do with Labour who were in charge forever before 2004 and who've been in charge for the 11 years since 2012? But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good politically motivated punchline, eh?  In reality the Equal Pay dispute has been decades in the making, decades in the disputing by ALL political parties, and now has finally been acknowledged as a major issue following years of heads of all persuasions being buried in the sand. If you want to point the fingers of blame, look to the Unions who have the ability to pull their bin MEN out on strike if they don't get juicer cuts of the pay budget as opposed to those Unions in the social care sector who look after mainly WOMEN who aren't as militant and consequently couldn't hold the council to the same level of blackmail, leading to the pay inequalities that resulted. Add up the little differences here and the little differences there, and they all add up over time, and it's been a long time in the making.

And in any case, the issues over the lease on the stadium and the Planning Application will be over before the next council election so any thoughts about the political landscape changing is not going to alter anything.

[heathen52]

On 9/3/2023 at 5:07 PM, tyretrax said:

heathen52, Perry Barr is owned by National Asset Management Agency, Birmingham CC own the freehold,

Do you mean the Irish Government Quango https://www.nama.ie/  ?.

Edited September 6, 2023 by heathen52