CHAMPIONSHIP PLANS FOR ’23

[gazzac]

1 minute ago, gmuncie said:

While I agree the top guys more than likely aren’t going to come over there is a second tier of guys I wouldn’t have thought it would be to hard to attract some of especially with Swedens troubles.

Guys like Jensen, Bjerre, Klindt, Holder, Bewley, Lidsey, NKI, Tungate, Bellego, Berge, Lahti, Huckenbeck, 

If only a couple of teams could put a team to that standard together then let them, speedway must be about the only sport that constantly punishes success and plays down to the lowest common denominator 

Agree with what you're saying, and to a point the list, but is Bewley second tier now, gp winner etc? 

[LisaColette]

30 minutes ago, eric i said:

When is the AGM? 

Sure it has been said it is next Tuesday (or starts then).

[IainB]

15 minutes ago, gmuncie said:

I wouldn’t have thought it would be to hard to attract some of especially with Swedens troubles.

Looking at some of the teams that are being put together in Sweden they don't appear to be in that much trouble. 

[gmuncie]

25 minutes ago, gazzac said:

Agree with what you're saying, and to a point the list, but is Bewley second tier now, gp winner etc? 

Very true I should I have split the list into top tier guys that might come back (Bewley, Lambert maybe a couple of others) then the other guys 

[Bojangles]

50 minutes ago, gmuncie said:

While I agree the top guys more than likely aren’t going to come over there is a second tier of guys I wouldn’t have thought it would be to hard to attract some of especially with Swedens troubles.

Guys like Jensen, Bjerre, Klindt, Holder, Bewley, Lidsey, NKI, Tungate, Bellego, Berge, Lahti, Huckenbeck, 

If only a couple of teams could put a team to that standard together then let them, speedway must be about the only sport that constantly punishes success and plays down to the lowest common denominator 

Bet you less than 50% of those guys come back. A 50-point limit would cripple the top league - very few of the big names will return, meaning the rich clubs sign 4/5 heat leaders and leave the remaining clubs with whatever is left. It would be a farce.

Almost every sport (with the exception of football I guess) punishes success as they want to keep their sports competitive. To mention just a couple - F1 now has costs caps for this exact reason (with teams at the bottom getting more research and wind tunnel time and bigger caps) and American sports have wage caps and reward those at the bottom with first choice of draft picks. Similar situation with rugby league, rugby union and cricket - they all have wage caps.

Why do some speedway fans always think it's just speedway that operates in this way? It's exactly the same argument with the playoff situation.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Bojangles

[SteveLyric2]

35 minutes ago, Bojangles said:

Bet you less than 50% of those guys come back. A 50-point limit would cripple the top league - very few of the big names will return, meaning the rich clubs sign 4/5 heat leaders and leave the remaining clubs with whatever is left. It would be a farce.

Almost every sport (with the exception of football I guess) punishes success as they want to keep their sports competitive. To mention just a couple - F1 now has costs caps for this exact reason (with teams at the bottom getting more research and wind tunnel time and bigger caps) and American sports have wage caps and reward those at the bottom with first choice of draft picks. Similar situation with rugby league, rugby union and cricket - they all have wage caps.

Why do some speedway fans always think it's just speedway that operates in this way? It's exactly the same argument with the playoff situation.

I thought all Prem clubs were rich clubs!!?

[gmuncie]

1 hour ago, Bojangles said:

Bet you less than 50% of those guys come back. A 50-point limit would cripple the top league - very few of the big names will return, meaning the rich clubs sign 4/5 heat leaders and leave the remaining clubs with whatever is left. It would be a farce.

Almost every sport (with the exception of football I guess) punishes success as they want to keep their sports competitive. To mention just a couple - F1 now has costs caps for this exact reason (with teams at the bottom getting more research and wind tunnel time and bigger caps) and American sports have wage caps and reward those at the bottom with first choice of draft picks. Similar situation with rugby league, rugby union and cricket - they all have wage caps.

Why do some speedway fans always think it's just speedway that operates in this way? It's exactly the same argument with the playoff situation.

Those aren’t punishing success though rather they are promoting parity, none of the sports mentioned force successful teams to be broken up so really that’s like comparing apples to oranges. 

The constant race to the bottom is what is killing speedway if one or two teams can afford to sign who they want and dominate for a few years then so be it. It’s up to the others to manage themselves better and stay competitive. 

[Fromafar]

10 minutes ago, gmuncie said:

Those aren’t punishing success though rather they are promoting parity, none of the sports mentioned force successful teams to be broken up so really that’s like comparing apples to oranges. 

The constant race to the bottom is what is killing speedway if one or two teams can afford to sign who they want and dominate for a few years then so be it. It’s up to the others to manage themselves better and stay competitive. 

I Agree.

[Bojangles]

26 minutes ago, gmuncie said:

Those aren’t punishing success though rather they are promoting parity, none of the sports mentioned force successful teams to be broken up so really that’s like comparing apples to oranges. 

The constant race to the bottom is what is killing speedway if one or two teams can afford to sign who they want and dominate for a few years then so be it. It’s up to the others to manage themselves better and stay competitive. 

Of course it's punishing success. Williams, Sauber, etc. haven't got more wind tunnel time and a bigger budget, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes etc. have got less! What a crazy comment.

So how would you promote parity? Actually....I don't think you would.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Bojangles

[gmuncie]

2 minutes ago, Bojangles said:

The how would you promote parity? Actually....I don't think you would.

Parity comes naturally in speedway from a points limit whether that be 30,40,50 every team builds to the same.

If some teams can’t afford to build to a higher limit by bringing back top tier riders they can still do this by building stronger teams from riders already here.

Is a team that was for argument sakes 

Masters, Bomber, Ellis, Pickering Morris, Lawson, Brennan,  that comes in around 50 going to be prohibitively expensive? 
 

I’m going off topic massively here though, back to my original point why should the championship need to weaken? 

[Bojangles]

14 minutes ago, gmuncie said:

Parity comes naturally in speedway from a points limit whether that be 30,40,50 every team builds to the same.

If some teams can’t afford to build to a higher limit by bringing back top tier riders they can still do this by building stronger teams from riders already here.

Is a team that was for argument sakes 

Masters, Bomber, Ellis, Pickering Morris, Lawson, Brennan,  that comes in around 50 going to be prohibitively expensive? 
 

I’m going off topic massively here though, back to my original point why should the championship need to weaken? 

You’ve really missed the point here. The top level riders aren’t going to come over here. One or two at the very most. So therefore a higher limit means the rich clubs will snap up 4/5 heat leaders and reach the 50 point limit. The others simply won’t be able to go higher than 40 if they are lucky - as there won’t be any riders of that quality left. And they will get thrashed every week. 
 

Therefore the only way to have distinction between the leagues is for the Championship to lower its limit. Look, I wish it wasn’t the case as much as the next person, but it is what it is. 
 

[gmuncie]

24 minutes ago, Bojangles said:

You’ve really missed the point here. The top level riders aren’t going to come over here. One or two at the very most. So therefore a higher limit means the rich clubs will snap up 4/5 heat leaders and reach the 50 point limit. The others simply won’t be able to go higher than 40 if they are lucky - as there won’t be any riders of that quality left. And they will get thrashed every week. 
 

Therefore the only way to have distinction between the leagues is for the Championship to lower its limit. Look, I wish it wasn’t the case as much as the next person, but it is what it is. 
 

That’s your opinion that they won’t come back I could just as easily say they all would and all of a sudden it’s problem solved.

even if we forget that next question then why does there need to be a distinction? 

[Bojangles]

5 minutes ago, gmuncie said:

That’s your opinion that they won’t come back I could just as easily say they all would and all of a sudden it’s problem solved.

even if we forget that next question then why does there need to be a distinction? 

Time will tell I guess. But as I've also said before, it's far less risky for the powers that be to reduce the points limit in the Championship than increase it in the Premiership on the off chance they will return. If they don't return, then I've explained why it won't work.

And there doesn't need to be a distinction in my opinion (and I've never said there should be). However the SCB clearly want one, so I'm just explaining the reasons why the Championship will be weakened.

[Mike0310]

If say cook at Poole is a Plymouth asset and they want to use him next season but he doesn’t want to ride for them can Plymouth stop him from riding for any other team in that league if there not willing to sell him.

[gmuncie]

19 minutes ago, Mike0310 said:

If say cook at Poole is a Plymouth asset and they want to use him next season but he doesn’t want to ride for them can Plymouth stop him from riding for any other team in that league if there not willing to sell him.

Not really, if the two teams can’t agree a fee or if Plymouth refused to sell it would just go to arbitration 

[Fromafar]

25 minutes ago, Bojangles said:

Time will tell I guess. But as I've also said before, it's far less risky for the powers that be to reduce the points limit in the Championship than increase it in the Premiership on the off chance they will return. If they don't return, then I've explained why it won't work.

And there doesn't need to be a distinction in my opinion (and I've never said there should be). However the SCB clearly want one, so I'm just explaining the reasons why the Championship will be weakened.

Why should fans pay the same for Lesser product though.Just easier why for Promotions to make money,instead of try to improve Promoting of the sport.

[LisaColette]

39 minutes ago, Mike0310 said:

If say cook at Poole is a Plymouth asset and they want to use him next season but he doesn’t want to ride for them can Plymouth stop him from riding for any other team in that league if there not willing to sell him.

No.

[Bojangles]

1 hour ago, Fromafar said:

Why should fans pay the same for Lesser product though.Just easier why for Promotions to make money,instead of try to improve Promoting of the sport.

Well....if fans are paying the same next season, it's probably fair considering the extra costs involved in 2022 compared to 2021.

If the points limits goes from 42 to 40 as expected, that's just a reduction of just 5%. Considering inflation alone has already risen by 2.6% since March (and likely to go higher before the season starts) and the fact energy bills are considerably higher, it's probably going to hit promoters harder than fans.

But I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. It's fair for fans of Championship clubs to feel aggrieved. Just don't be surprised if ticket prices actually go up, not down.
 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Bojangles

[Fromafar]

36 minutes ago, Bojangles said:

Well....if fans are paying the same next season, it's probably fair considering the extra costs involved in 2022 compared to 2021.

If the points limits goes from 42 to 40 as expected, that's just a reduction of just 5%. Considering inflation alone has already risen by 2.6% since March last year (and likely to go higher before the season starts) and the fact energy bills are considerably higher, it's probably going to hit promoters harder than fans.

But I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. It's fair for fans of Championship clubs to feel aggrieved. Just don't be surprised if ticket prices actually go up, not down.
 

I take your points,but I know several fans at certain Clubs that are not Happy with Admission Prices.( the diehards will probably stump up) .Don’t  think it will increase attendances overall though and the sport is not attracting new fans in large numbers.Like I say it the easy way to make the sport pay by downgrading the Product but charging the same,good luck with it.

[SteveLyric2]

1 hour ago, Mike0310 said:

If say cook at Poole is a Plymouth asset and they want to use him next season but he doesn’t want to ride for them can Plymouth stop him from riding for any other team in that league if there not willing to sell him.

As stated elsewhere, Z Cook will be riding in Poland mostTuesdays. Also where do you get the idea that ZC is a Plymouth asset? Didn't Mark Philips go on record to thank Matt Ford in helping Plymouth to assist with ZC, Bjarne and Hans for the 2021 season??