Glasgow 2023

[Cast1rn]

8 minutes ago, Jaizer said:

Also no incentive to be a grade A rider as could be less employable. Grading system would be riddled with riders manipulating averages to be just under each grade limit imo

Just like the present average system.

 

Anything can be manipulated if you want to, it's just about minimising the manipulation.

If your going to go off averages it has to be an actual average based on all the meetings the rider takes part in. Not cut 53% of them.

 

[LisaColette]

2 hours ago, Cast1rn said:

Why would we want them as 6 and 7 pointers ? 

Cause Poole certainly won't

 

I don't see why not as Ben was a 6 pointer this season anyway! 

2 hours ago, HGould said:

Playing devils advocate here and asking a serious question?

What's to stop a Team NOT making the Play Offs releasing a reserve / low average rider prior to final Match they have in the League?

Would that enable a Play Off Team to pick up the released rider prior to the Play Offs provided it was before transfer cut off date and the averages fitted. 

Sure there is a deadline for signings, used to be mid or end of August. 

[Fromafar]

Think the random fixture lists where Clubs are not  roughly all racing the same number of fixture per month( due to small league) distorts averages and effects changes that some Clubs can make.Could benefit some more than others.

[bruno]

2 hours ago, StevePark said:

Yeah, then have two teams each with seven heat leaders in them, leaving the "crap" for every one else.  Not good for the crowds, I would suggest when said HL teams face the other team who's number one has a 5pt average! 

And the current system works, the sport is dying a death in this country something needs trying. Poland have less restrictions and it seems to work over there. Saying that there's much more than just the average system wrong over here and that's coming from a regular supporter. Well I am at the minute . Do you really think any team over here could really afford 7 heatleaders

Edited June 27, 2023 by bruno

[Arthur54]

4 hours ago, Cast1rn said:

Why would we want them as 6 and 7 pointers ? 

Cause Poole certainly won't

 

I think Lisa meant Poole not Glasgow 

[StevePark]

53 minutes ago, bruno said:

And the current system works, the sport is dying a death in this country something needs trying. Poland have less restrictions and it seems to work over there. Saying that there's much more than just the average system wrong over here and that's coming from a regular supporter. Well I am at the minute . Do you really think any team over here could really afford 7 heatleaders

Glasgow for one. Prob Poole for another.

[Fromafar]

11 minutes ago, StevePark said:

Glasgow for one. Prob Poole for another.

They on top of the without them, so maybe that is not the answer

[tyretrax]

5 hours ago, StevePark said:

Yeah, then have two teams each with seven heat leaders in them, leaving the "crap" for every one else.  Not good for the crowds, I would suggest when said HL teams face the other team who's number one has a 5pt average! 

How would seven heat leaders be paid because they couldn't all score points? so they would all need to be paid a fixed amount.  Who could afford that?

[Sings4Speedway]

16 hours ago, tyretrax said:

How would seven heat leaders be paid because they couldn't all score points? so they would all need to be paid a fixed amount.  Who could afford that?

No reason that the whole team couldn't get full or paid max's. Only squabbling would be who gets the bonus ride in heat 15 (all hypothetically of course).

[Barabas]

 I know about team building I also know tigers won't win anything with our reserves they are our weakest link ace on a 2 is what it is but there were several riders available better than Lee on his average which I don't need to go on about as they were taken by other teams that's not rocket science,  but as for now it's clear we need to change & don't any idiot go on about who there are several Australians we cud bring in who wud be an upgrade tate zitchke an obvious one & a few Scandinavians as well , they are out there ppl , also some teenage kids who are better lee just isn't at it at all I just don't see it at all he's still bulky on the bike slow lacking speed when beaten always looking at bike etc the national league is Lees level I take no joy in this because he's very popular at glasgow but that won't win us anything fact ...v Poole it will show trust me then its the usual oh well  if we want to win then do something most of the ppl in the know can see ...while I'm on marcin isn't as fast as I was hoping this Yr & he could be doing a bit more when beaten gives up easily doesn't try hard enough when behind stays on same line etc he's on a 5 Ave so I know he's a bit higher but is only an opinion if we are to win anything nowak & vissing need to chip in & Lee needs to score ace is not gona win us anything as he's a project so we're told no pressure was the word for him this Yr so that was tigers decision I didn't agree as reserves for me arvas important as a no 1 they can take 7 rides a no 1 can't when a reserve wins same 3points as a no 1 ...in the words of Neil middleditch reserves win you meetings take not glasgow ...when we fail don't scratch ur head & say how did that happen ?? Also the pressure on Lee is unfair & no not from me from the tigers why because has got a free pass..Lee hasn't 

[Noelinho]

10 minutes ago, Cabbageman said:

 I know about team building I also know tigers won't win anything with our reserves they are our weakest link ace on a 2 is what it is but there were several riders available better than Lee on his average which I don't need to go on about as they were taken by other teams that's not rocket science,  but as for now it's clear we need to change & don't any idiot go on about who there are several Australians we cud bring in who wud be an upgrade tate zitchke an obvious one & a few Scandinavians as well , they are out there ppl , also some teenage kids who are better lee just isn't at it at all I just don't see it at all he's still bulky on the bike slow lacking speed when beaten always looking at bike etc the national league is Lees level I take no joy in this because he's very popular at glasgow but that won't win us anything fact ...v Poole it will show trust me then its the usual oh well  if we want to win then do something most of the ppl in the know can see ...while I'm on marcin isn't as fast as I was hoping this Yr & he could be doing a bit more when beaten gives up easily doesn't try hard enough when behind stays on same line etc he's on a 5 Ave so I know he's a bit higher but is only an opinion if we are to win anything nowak & vissing need to chip in & Lee needs to score ace is not gona win us anything as he's a project so we're told no pressure was the word for him this Yr so that was tigers decision I didn't agree as reserves for me arvas important as a no 1 they can take 7 rides a no 1 can't when a reserve wins same 3points as a no 1 ...in the words of Neil middleditch reserves win you meetings take not glasgow ...when we fail don't scratch ur head & say how did that happen ?? Also the pressure on Lee is unfair & no not from me from the tigers why because has got a free pass..Lee hasn't 

Nice rant, but did you know Claus has increased his average from 5.00 to 5.69, and Marcin has increased his average from 5.00 to 5.94?

Or that Ace, who "won't help us win anything", has exactly the same home average as Lee this season?

Our top four have better averages than Poole. Their reserves have higher averages than us.

Which will prevail at the end of the season? It'd be hilarious if it's Redcar, because currently they have worse averages at both ends, and they've beaten us twice!

[Jaizer]

Lee was a gamble. Correct me if I'm wrong but had double figures at Poole and Berwick towards end of season. It's happened in the past riders coming back take a season to get used to things. Unfortunately he seems to have gone back not forward. 

Hopefully something clicks towards end of season, but what will be will be. Whether we win or lose won't be down to reserves imo as team was built reliant on the top 5

[Barabas]

I know marcins average & claus yes they are doing ok but as I said msrcin is the weak link In top 5 claus is faster at home & has more aggression marcin if beaten at gate sticks to same line & tries to pass inside bend 1&2 every time , as for top 5 a top reserve is more important than the 5th rider in top 5 ie marcin a reserve can take 7 rides & is a trump card ppl who don't understand the importance of a good reserve don't know how to win in speedway ...ask mr winner himself Neil middleditch he will tell you all how it's done take heed ...he knows as for tigers I'll say it again for the ppl on here who don't get it ...tigers are not winning anything this Yr with ace & Lee at 6&7 fact , it's not all about the top 5 the reserves are the key to a trophy 

[MilhouseZmarzlik]

1 hour ago, Cabbageman said:

I know marcins average & claus yes they are doing ok but as I said msrcin is the weak link In top 5 claus is faster at home & has more aggression marcin if beaten at gate sticks to same line & tries to pass inside bend 1&2 every time , as for top 5 a top reserve is more important than the 5th rider in top 5 ie marcin a reserve can take 7 rides & is a trump card ppl who don't understand the importance of a good reserve don't know how to win in speedway ...ask mr winner himself Neil middleditch he will tell you all how it's done take heed ...he knows as for tigers I'll say it again for the ppl on here who don't get it ...tigers are not winning anything this Yr with ace & Lee at 6&7 fact , it's not all about the top 5 the reserves are the key to a trophy 

Can't believe how negative you're being about your team, do you remember the state your team were in before the Facennas? Many other teams would kill for a line up like yours. P.S. Every single rider has increased their average

[Cast1rn]

6 hours ago, Cabbageman said:

I know marcins average & claus yes they are doing ok but as I said msrcin is the weak link In top 5 claus is faster at home & has more aggression marcin if beaten at gate sticks to same line & tries to pass inside bend 1&2 every time , as for top 5 a top reserve is more important than the 5th rider in top 5 ie marcin a reserve can take 7 rides & is a trump card ppl who don't understand the importance of a good reserve don't know how to win in speedway ...ask mr winner himself Neil middleditch he will tell you all how it's done take heed ...he knows as for tigers I'll say it again for the ppl on here who don't get it ...tigers are not winning anything this Yr with ace & Lee at 6&7 fact , it's not all about the top 5 the reserves are the key to a trophy 

For someone who "knows team building" you will surely understand this, you have 40 points. You want Basso bomber and tom in your team?? If you do we got probably the strongest possible 2nd strings in Claus and Marcin because they both came in on 5 point averages. Which meant we were left with 6 to fill the reserves. 

It was always a gamble with who went at 6 but please show another 4 pointer that could've gone at reserve........ Personally I would've taken Jason Edwards but he was gone to Redcar, Paul Starke would've been my 2nd choice but didn't fit so I'm guessing they thought Lee could do it.

When you're comparing riders such as Marcin, have a look at where Broc was at last year because that's who he's come to replace, Secondly scoring points at 2 is far harder than what Marcin had when he was last here at 6.

 

Oxford put Poole to the sword with a #7 reserve scoring 0 and a 6 that scored 9 off of 7 rides (1.2) per ride. So if Lee gets 4 and Ace gets 2, which is what their averages are at then we only need 1 little extra point from somewhere and that extra point may just come in heat 8 from the "slow Polish fella".

 

[szkocjasid]

On 6/27/2023 at 9:41 AM, SJA said:

I've seen Ashton a couple of times this season. He and Max Perry (I think) will be the couple of 15/16 year old riders who will get picked up once they can race in the Championship. They will be a steel on their averages. 

There are some promising NL riders who may be worth a go on 2.00 averages to leave more room for the top 6s averages. But there's not a single NL rider who I would call a "steal" on that average. The scores of Pijper, Ablitt, Killeen, Trigger & even Mulford show how hard to is to step up. The biggest improvers Coles & Atkins had many (half) seasons in the Champ before averaging above 2.00. Can't see any NL rider doing better than Complin.

[cinderfella]

Ace is one for the future no doubt but the team is not going to win any trophy with him in his first year.

Too often we've seen so called wonder kids given a chance (eg Bickley was another while Bewley was the exception but just didn't stay at Glasgow long enough for us to benefit) to no avail. Too much pressure is put on these young kids.

Yes let's develop them with an eye on the future but let's be realistic and accept that with a 2pt reserved the other 6 have to be on fire.

As for our other reserve I'm afraid he is out of his depth and he should stick to the NDL which seems to be his level.

Also at his age you have to question why he is taking on so many guest bookings and extra travel. Is he seeing this as a last gasp at making some money so grasping every opportunity available but not giving Glasgow 100% in the process.

Yes we want to build a team for the future but with the present teaming building regulations its obvious two or more rider will move on at the end of each season killing any consistency and until that rule is addressed building for the future is a waste of effort (and probably money)

[cinderfella]

4 minutes ago, szkocjasid said:

There are some promising NL riders who may be worth a go on 2.00 averages to leave more room for the top 6s averages. But there's not a single NL rider who I would call a "steal" on that average. The scores of Pijper, Ablitt, Killeen, Trigger & even Mulford show how hard to is to step up. The biggest improvers Coles & Atkins had many (half) seasons in the Champ before averaging above 2.00. Can't see any NL rider doing better than Complin.

The only way NDL riders are going to improve is by bringing a heat change formula for the reserves.

I'd suggest that the four reserves only race against each other in 4 heats with one start from each gate.

 

[therefused]

3 minutes ago, cinderfella said:

The only way NDL riders are going to improve is by bringing a heat change formula for the reserves.

I'd suggest that the four reserves only race against each other in 4 heats with one start from each gate.

 

how will that improve them, its no challenge at all riding against the same riders all night. If you have the best reserves at the beginning of the season that is a 20-4 point swing every meeting and the meeting is already won. 

[szkocjasid]

1 minute ago, cinderfella said:

The only way NDL riders are going to improve is by bringing a heat change formula for the reserves.

I'd suggest that the four reserves only race against each other in 4 heats with one start from each gate.

 

They may as well just stay in the NL of their only gonna meet fellow reserves, would also cause havoc with the averages, you'd have Newman & Mountain on 10+ averages.

I'd certainly change to format so the weaker reserve has to ride at 7 & can't be replaced in heat 8 (Premiership rules) or use the old Elite League fast track format where there were too reserve races & they never met a heat leader, but do race second strings.