Warsaw GP Saturday May 13th 2023

[bigcatdiary]

12 hours ago, 89buttons said:

I always preferred the points you score being the points you get, getting in a final on 8 and being awarded 20 if you win it is a joke 

It’s certainly my opinion as well, I saw no reason to change it and it was much easier to follow.

[Pinny]

20 minutes ago, FAST GATER said:

So Holder's robust action is to be admired but Bart 's is unacceptable !

Holder was ahead and closed the door which is fine , Zmarzlik was off line and went for a gap that wasnt there. Big difference. 

[Leicester Lion]

27 minutes ago, AFCB Wildcat said:

This type of incident has been discussed many times and as usual people see it different ways.

For a long time, the falling rider getting the decision was the default decision by referees, so this is what people expect, but it seems now that the tide is turning a bit. 

For me, Doyle left Zmarzlik a gap coming off bend 2 that he was inevitably going to take and he was passed. While I agree with the comments saying that Doyle didn't lean in on Zmarzlik, and that he continued on his natural line, was that wise when you know that someone else is already on that line now?

Zmarzlik didn't move towards Doyle either, and had nowhere else to go, but Doyle had probably 70% of the track width available to him to avoid the collision. 

It's racing, and we all want to see close racing, so this type of incident is inevitable unfortunately. It was a racing incident and without prejudice, I think the referee got it right.

I presume when you say passed you mean past. But that wasn't the case. The gap was there but Zmarzlik didn't complete the pass. They were side by side. Normally I'd say the rider who doesn't complete the pass is to blame if he brings the opponent down. But in this instance Doyle was culpable to some degree. Not an easy call and that's why we have referees to make those judgements.

[Fromafar]

44 minutes ago, AFCB Wildcat said:

This type of incident has been discussed many times and as usual people see it different ways.

For a long time, the falling rider getting the decision was the default decision by referees, so this is what people expect, but it seems now that the tide is turning a bit. 

For me, Doyle left Zmarzlik a gap coming off bend 2 that he was inevitably going to take and he was passed. While I agree with the comments saying that Doyle didn't lean in on Zmarzlik, and that he continued on his natural line, was that wise when you know that someone else is already on that line now?

Zmarzlik didn't move towards Doyle either, and had nowhere else to go, but Doyle had probably 70% of the track width available to him to avoid the collision. 

It's racing, and we all want to see close racing, so this type of incident is inevitable unfortunately. It was a racing incident and without prejudice, I think the referee got it right.

That’s how I saw it ,they were handlebar to handlebar3/4 way up the strait.Doyle decided not to change line.Him being on the outside had the option.

[screm]

Maybe we need VAR in speedway.

[The Cheese]

Unfortunate for Holder, never ideal to award a final but in cases like this it would be the right thing to do. No consolation for him now but I'm sure he'll win a GP soon enough. Thought Doyle was unlucky, can kind of see that the referee might have thought he made the most of it but there's no doubt if it had been the other way around then that would have been seen as enough contact to exclude. 

Hopefully Lindgren can continue his form and make the title race interesting. 

[AFCB Wildcat]

31 minutes ago, Leicester Lion said:

I presume when you say passed you mean past. But that wasn't the case. The gap was there but Zmarzlik didn't complete the pass. They were side by side. Normally I'd say the rider who doesn't complete the pass is to blame if he brings the opponent down. But in this instance Doyle was culpable to some degree. Not an easy call and that's why we have referees to make those judgements.

Please accept my sincere apologies for my grammatical error and any offence it caused you.

In hindsight, I can see that this hideous faux Pas completely invalidates the point I was making and would have made it very difficult to understand. 

Thanks for pointing it out 

[orion]

25 minutes ago, The Cheese said:

Unfortunate for Holder, never ideal to award a final but in cases like this it would be the right thing to do. No consolation for him now but I'm sure he'll win a GP soon enough. Thought Doyle was unlucky, can kind of see that the referee might have thought he made the most of it but there's no doubt if it had been the other way around then that would have been seen as enough contact to exclude. 

Hopefully Lindgren can continue his form and make the title race interesting. 

I think it was a 50 -50 call..the main point that you quite rightly point out is how unlucky Holder is.. Common sense tells us that the rule should be that the race should have been awarded in this case.

[orion]

35 minutes ago, screm said:

Maybe we need VAR in speedway.

We have ..a ref can watch video evidence. The trouble with any form of Var it call still come down to one person's opinion .

[Ryehouseforever]

Can someone tell me why this race was not awarded to Jack Holder? In GB racing it would have been. Why do the other two riders get another bite of the cherry? Clearly going into the last lap Holder had won the race.  Is it different in grand Prix. To me it lacks common sense.

[Leicester Lion]

45 minutes ago, AFCB Wildcat said:

Please accept my sincere apologies for my grammatical error and any offence it caused you.

In hindsight, I can see that this hideous faux Pas completely invalidates the point I was making and would have made it very difficult to understand. 

Thanks for pointing it out 

Either way you were saying Zmarzlik had passed (or got past) Doyle, which wasn't the case as they were side by side. 

[HenryW]

 

[Gavan]

Personally I think Zmarzlik was at fault 

However it’s funny reading old man Middlo who believes the referee cost Jack Holder??

Obviously the Poole boss doesn’t know the rules that no race can be awarded at GP level….. o don’t agree with the rule but surely Muddlo should know it 

Unfortunate for Holder ….. but someone had to be excluded so to see Muddlo get his knickers in a twist over the decision costing Holder is hilarious 

[Hodgy]

14 minutes ago, Gavan said:

Personally I think Zmarzlik was at fault 

However it’s funny reading old man Middlo who believes the referee cost Jack Holder??

Obviously the Poole boss doesn’t know the rules that no race can be awarded at GP level….. o don’t agree with the rule but surely Muddlo should know it 

Unfortunate for Holder ….. but someone had to be excluded so to see Muddlo get his knickers in a twist over the decision costing Holder is hilarious 

FFS man (women)! You could have just left it at your first line - but no, your obsession with all things Poole is tedious. You just can’t help yourself. 

[AFCB Wildcat]

7 hours ago, Leicester Lion said:

Either way you were saying Zmarzlik had passed (or got past) Doyle, which wasn't the case as they were side by side. 

Okay, again, in the literal interpretation of  'past', he hadn't cleared Doyle completely but if it makes you happy, the leading edge of his machine was in front of Doyle's before the point of contact.

Doyle blocked the move up the inside on the preceding laps but left the door wide open on this occasion. What was Zmarzlik supposed to do? To say that he went for a gap that wasn't there (and I know you didn't say that) is nonsense, as it clearly was. 

From that point on Zmarzlik rode the only line he could and made no attempt to move Doyle out. Doyle had the option to change tack with his preferred line taken but chose not to hence the contact.

So apart from nitpicking the interpretation & spelling of 'past', what is your point? 

What did Zmarzlik do wrong? I'm quite prepared to hear someone with an alternative opinion to mine without trying to belittle them.

(Disclaimer. This post probably contains spelling or grammatical errors. Read at your own risk) 

Edited May 14, 2023 by AFCB Wildcat

[iris123]

4 hours ago, HenryW said:

 

Funny that. I thought Klindt was right into all the conspiracy theories going round the last couple of years. 

 

[Tinker]

The incident between Smarzlik and Doyle reminded me of an almost identical coming together in last year's Premier League Final between Brady Kurtz and Tobiasz Musielak. Kurtz fell off on the outside but it was Musielak who was excluded.

I personally think Smarzlik should have gone.

[chris4gillian]

6 hours ago, screm said:

Maybe we need VAR in speedway.

We have, it's called slow motion replays 

[Technik]

When the Referee turns up with two young children & has to walk around with an FIM coat on he is more concerned about keeping himself & his kids safe.

He made a decision based on fear. If this had happened outside of Poland then I believe the outcome would have been different

[Falubaz]

12 hours ago, screm said:

Since when was Neymar in SGP.

You aren't intelligent enough to understand the mataphor...