Peter Collins Book

[TonyMac]

3 hours ago, Gordon Pairman said:

I don’t know about recollections. George was living and working in Canada during the period in question. Tony Mole ran all his speedway operations through one business of which he was the sole owner. In the short time I was involved - we set up the company in 2006 and I ceased to be a promoter after the end of the 2009 season - as I said, George had no financial involvement.

 

Maybe a bit disingenuous of you there, Gordon, although it's good that you have acknowledged George Carswell's role and the price he and his family ultimately paid for helping to prop up BV at various stages.

When I wrote earlier in this thread that George was 'financial involved' in all regimes from Perrin onwards and therefore provided support and insights to PC's printed take on events, I didn't necessarily mean he had money invested as a listed co-promoter or director of BV.

To put the record straight, some of the insights and factual recollections provided by George to Peter and I during the course of putting the book together include matters pertaining to the Tony Mole-Ian Thomas era, too. Ian contacted George asking if he would be prepared to sponsor any riders (essentially to facilitate the cost of including them in the team) and he did so in the case of Simon Stead. He'd also agreed to back Rory Schlein but Thomas U-turned and Aces signed Andy Smith instead.

More importantly, as mentioned in PC's book, George also told Mole and Thomas that he would finance a deal to bring Tai Woffinden to Kirky Lane. George explained: "One other interesting situation arose during one of my visits to Belle Vue. Tai Woffinden was reportedly going to Wolverhampton for the reported sum of £10,000 plus extras.

"As Tai had cut his teeth with the Colts I told Tony and Ian that I would match or beat the offer for him to become a Belle Vue asset. To my surprise, they said they weren’t interested."

George's input was also sought by the BV promotion after Mole sold out to David Gordon and Chris Morton, presumably during some of the period of your involvement. GC writes: "As the (2007 takeover) deal had come so late into the off-season they had great difficulty in putting out a competitive team. Chris phoned me in Vancouver and asked whether I would still sponsor Simon Stead, which I agreed to do. Chris and I had known each other for a considerable amount of time - in fact for a short period I had worked with Chris and Steve Casey at Allied Dunbar. The team predictably finished bottom of the league in 2007.

"Chris and I talked regularly by phone and discussed the potential of several up and coming riders. Prior to the start of 2011 Chris phoned asking if there was a possibility of getting Rory Schlein to rejoin the club. I contacted Rory and offered to sponsor him, to which he agreed and he was able to come to terms with Chris and David. Rory had a banner year and I felt things were on the rise."

George has told us much more about what happened behind the scenes in the period leading up to the 2016 but it was not relevant to the book.

[BV66]

Gearge Carswell should write a book of his own, it would be quite revealing.

[Goldhawk]

Hi Guys,

Iv'e read the book and it's an excellent read from a Speedway legend.

First and most importantly of all let's not lose sight that PC has been a fantastic rider, World Champion, ambassitor for England, and for British Speedway and has helped massively in saving Belle Vue from oblivion. Converserly what Chris Morton and David Gordon did in bringing the NSS to Speedway was incredible and bottom line is they should be honoured for it. The current BV promotion have lead by example with brilliantly prepared and presented race track and The Mighty Aces are back as the were back in the day ( i first went to Hyde Road in 1970 and that speaks for itself )

Above are all known facts and few would argue with. 

Whether B.V. are being mean spirited here or riders are asking for unreasonable requests from them is not doing either any favours and shouldn't be debated here.

The fans of Belle Vue and Speedway owe all parties above a great deal.

What i and others have said earlier is they should come together and sort it out before the start of season.

i am sure all Speedway fans would like to see that and to see both PC and Mort back at Belle Vue along with others who have graced club - They are it !!

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Goldhawk
punctuation

[TonyMac]

Reporter Claire Hannah's piece with Peter Collins will be on ITV Granada Reports, in the north-west region, from 6:29pm tonight (Friday, Dec 30).

An extended version of this interview will appear on Granada Report's website later. I'll post a link as soon as it's available.

Signed copies of PC's book can still be obtained from us at www.retro-speedway.com

[Gordon Pairman]

23 hours ago, TonyMac said:

Maybe a bit disingenuous of you there, Gordon, although it's good that you have acknowledged George Carswell's role and the price he and his family ultimately paid for helping to prop up BV at various stages.

When I wrote earlier in this thread that George was 'financial involved' in all regimes from Perrin onwards and therefore provided support and insights to PC's printed take on events, I didn't necessarily mean he had money invested as a listed co-promoter or director of BV.

To put the record straight, some of the insights and factual recollections provided by George to Peter and I during the course of putting the book together include matters pertaining to the Tony Mole-Ian Thomas era, too. Ian contacted George asking if he would be prepared to sponsor any riders (essentially to facilitate the cost of including them in the team) and he did so in the case of Simon Stead. He'd also agreed to back Rory Schlein but Thomas U-turned and Aces signed Andy Smith instead.

More importantly, as mentioned in PC's book, George also told Mole and Thomas that he would finance a deal to bring Tai Woffinden to Kirky Lane. George explained: "One other interesting situation arose during one of my visits to Belle Vue. Tai Woffinden was reportedly going to Wolverhampton for the reported sum of £10,000 plus extras.

"As Tai had cut his teeth with the Colts I told Tony and Ian that I would match or beat the offer for him to become a Belle Vue asset. To my surprise, they said they weren’t interested."

George's input was also sought by the BV promotion after Mole sold out to David Gordon and Chris Morton, presumably during some of the period of your involvement. GC writes: "As the (2007 takeover) deal had come so late into the off-season they had great difficulty in putting out a competitive team. Chris phoned me in Vancouver and asked whether I would still sponsor Simon Stead, which I agreed to do. Chris and I had known each other for a considerable amount of time - in fact for a short period I had worked with Chris and Steve Casey at Allied Dunbar. The team predictably finished bottom of the league in 2007.

"Chris and I talked regularly by phone and discussed the potential of several up and coming riders. Prior to the start of 2011 Chris phoned asking if there was a possibility of getting Rory Schlein to rejoin the club. I contacted Rory and offered to sponsor him, to which he agreed and he was able to come to terms with Chris and David. Rory had a banner year and I felt things were on the rise."

George has told us much more about what happened behind the scenes in the period leading up to the 2016 but it was not relevant to the book.

Dear me. Where to start? First of all, Tony Mole didn’t sell out to David Gordon and Chris Morton. David and Chris walked away from the deal on offer, the same as I had walked away some months earlier. I then made the approach to David and Chris about putting together a consortium. Similar but different. 
And on the financial involvement, I repeat that George had no financial involvement in the promotion. His individual sponsorship was hugely important, but went directly to riders. 
Last year, I financially supported various riders, events and organisations, including speedway promotions but would never claim I had a financial involvement with any of them. The differentiation is important as I never sought nor was asked for my input to the running of the businesses, and have little or no insight into their day to day operations.

[mikebv]

3 hours ago, TonyMac said:

Reporter Claire Hannah's piece with Peter Collins will be on ITV Granada Reports, in the north-west region, from 6:29pm tonight (Friday, Dec 30).

An extended version of this interview will appear on Granada Report's website later. I'll post a link as soon as it's available.

Signed copies of PC's book can still be obtained from us at www.retro-speedway.com

Just watched it...

Superb....

[TonyMac]

Here's the link to the full five-minute extended version of Claire Hannah's interview with PC which was broadcast on ITV Granada Reports tonight. Thank you, Claire - another great plug for the book and speedway in general.

Speedway legend Peter Collins 'Keeping it on the Tyres' life story out | ITV News Granada

[Goldhawk]

Excellent interview with PC

[OveFundinFan]

Agree, a good interview and promotion for speedway.

Slowly working through the book, on page 365 now which is part way through one of the longer chapters

[geoff100]

Great to see"pc" on the tv looking well,had the book a month aint going to read till feb on a beach in mexico 

[steve roberts]

I've just got to the chapter when Peter states that England Manager John Berry decided not to select Peter during the 1985 season. Having read John's excelent book there was a different twist if I recall. Peter had made it clear at the start of the season he didn't wish to be considered for selection but changed his mind at the time of the World Best Pairs? John, however, felt it unfair and stuck with his original choice of Carter & Tatum.

[steve roberts]

Having read the chapter in Peter's book about ex-riders visiting their track free of charge I have to agree with his views 100%. He goes into it in great detail and personally I don't see it as a problem and the initiative would only benefit the track involved with good PRO and supporter involvement. It's a shame that his friendship with Chris Morton appears to have been badly affected with events that the new Belle Vue and it's regime's policy adopted (no image of Peter Craven in the lounge dedicated to the great "Ace" beggars belief!). The talk of a museum within the new complex was also met with apathy apparently by the those in charge at the time. Ex- Cheetah, Mark Lemon, appears to follow the same directive and it's all very sad and helps creates animosity...no wonder speedway is in the state that it now appears to "enjoy".

I would be aghast if I thought that my own team expected the likes of Eddie Reeves, Rick Timmo, Gordon Kennett and Dag Lovaas ( yes that name again "Chunky") were expected to pay on entry to Cowley?

Edited January 2, 2023 by steve roberts

[coldace]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I would be aghast if I thought that my own team expected the likes of Eddie Reeves, Rick Timmo, Gordon Kennett and Dag Lovaas ( yes that name again "Chunky") were expected to pay on entry to Cowley?

Not sure they are expected to pay at the NSS. As far as I know they merely have to call up before hand to receive free entry.  Some of the ex BV riders are regularly seen at matches, especially Eric Broadbelt.  

I really enjoyed the PC book especially the early bits about him getting started but he clearly is very down on the people who brought us the best track and stadium in the country which is a pity. 

 

 

[fatface]

On 12/27/2022 at 4:28 PM, TonyMac said:

Aren't all autobiographies by definition a one-sided take.

But, as I mentioned previously, much of what PC has written about respective BV managements is supported in print by George Carswell, who was financially involved under all regimes from John Perrin to David Gordon/Chris Morton.

Believe me, PC didn't decide to write his story for money. If so, he would have done it many years ago, when speedway had a far bigger following and more fans from his peak racing era were still around.

I accept your view that riders know the risks when they begin and that they go into it hoping to earn a living. And PC did very well out of speedway - no doubt - as did the sport out of him. But, come on, some goodwill from all tracks towards their past employees wouldn't go amiss - and wouldn't cost them a penny.

To make ex-riders pay (or ask) to get in is, of course, not a crime and it's every promoter's right to dictate his own policy. But it's churlish, mean-spirited and short-sighted when tracks need all the good PR they can muster in these financially ominous times. 

Hmm. I think you are being a tad disingenuous. To be really clear, I'm talking about you making a few quid in not ideal circumstances. Not PC.

Look, I think your contribution to the nostalgia speedway market has been very good and I've been a happy customer. I think the Kenny Carter and John Berry books stand up against any speedway book ever. And Backtrack had some good stuff before running out of steam. But, I also think the use of a lot of footage in the DVDs is a bit naughty....I assume ITV Sport and BBC Sport haven't handed over distribution rights to these?

I think producing a PC book is also a bit naughty post-brain injury. As a consequence, sadly, I don't think he is a reliable source and his words against others should not be put into print unchallenged. The Belle Vue management past and present are really in a no-win situation, there is nothing to be gained for them coming out against PC, a bona-fide club legend.

Equally, for this particular issue of all ex-riders getting free admission, how can any speedway club operating on fine margins (in realty loss making) start ushering 200+ folk through the gate for free each week. I have long worked in PR and there aint any mileage out of Barry Ayres* heading in free every week. It means very little to the 50+ year olds who might remember him....and literally nothing to any new crowds they need to draw in.

I'm not surprised a PC book has been rolled out. He is a name that still means something to people, hence this thread. But given the health circumstances, I don't agree with it.

 

* sorry to Barry Ayres if he reads this! He had a crack, fair play. But wasn't up to it. I could have chosen from many others. 

[steve roberts]

9 hours ago, falcace said:

Hmm. I think you are being a tad disingenuous. To be really clear, I'm talking about you making a few quid in not ideal circumstances. Not PC.

Look, I think your contribution to the nostalgia speedway market has been very good and I've been a happy customer. I think the Kenny Carter and John Berry books stand up against any speedway book ever. And Backtrack had some good stuff before running out of steam. But, I also think the use of a lot of footage in the DVDs is a bit naughty....I assume ITV Sport and BBC Sport haven't handed over distribution rights to these?

I think producing a PC book is also a bit naughty post-brain injury. As a consequence, sadly, I don't think he is a reliable source and his words against others should not be put into print unchallenged. The Belle Vue management past and present are really in a no-win situation, there is nothing to be gained for them coming out against PC, a bona-fide club legend.

Equally, for this particular issue of all ex-riders getting free admission, how can any speedway club operating on fine margins (in realty loss making) start ushering 200+ folk through the gate for free each week. I have long worked in PR and there aint any mileage out of Barry Ayres* heading in free every week. It means very little to the 50+ year olds who might remember him....and literally nothing to any new crowds they need to draw in.

I'm not surprised a PC book has been rolled out. He is a name that still means something to people, hence this thread. But given the health circumstances, I don't agree with it.

 

* sorry to Barry Ayres if he reads this! He had a crack, fair play. But wasn't up to it. I could have chosen from many others. 

Personally I don't think that it would be anything near that figure. Take Belle Vue's record breaking Triple Crown winners of 1972, for example (as Peter highlights in his book), where only three riders are still with us. My team's starting line up (Oxford) in my first year attending (also 1972) only two riders have survived and one, Rick Timmo, lives in NZ so is unlikely to visit regularly.  With many teams traditionally having a very cosmopolitan make up the likelyhood of there being a great influx of "freebies" is negligible in my view and those who were domiclied in the UK during their riding careers how many used to live within easy distance of the track they represented including the British home-based riders? When Oxford ruled during the eighties we had Nielsen, Rasmussen and Sorensen (now all living back in Denmark), Cox (Thailand I believe?), Taylor (Mildenhall),  Grahame (Birmingham), Dugard (Brighton) Butler (Australia) with only Nigel De'Ath and Jon Surman still living locally (?) and therefore wouldn't be visiting Cowley on anything like a regular basis and dare I suggest most teams would have similar examples.

Of course it will become even less of an issue in the future with teams now filled with foreigners and the loss of tracks ever increasing.

However if the issue was to allow riders free entry to any track then that's an entirely different matter altogether but I don't think that what's been implied?

Edited January 3, 2023 by steve roberts

[nw42]

2 hours ago, falcace said:

Hmm. I think you are being a tad disingenuous. To be really clear, I'm talking about you making a few quid in not ideal circumstances. Not PC.

Look, I think your contribution to the nostalgia speedway market has been very good and I've been a happy customer. I think the Kenny Carter and John Berry books stand up against any speedway book ever. And Backtrack had some good stuff before running out of steam. But, I also think the use of a lot of footage in the DVDs is a bit naughty....I assume ITV Sport and BBC Sport haven't handed over distribution rights to these?

I think producing a PC book is also a bit naughty post-brain injury. As a consequence, sadly, I don't think he is a reliable source and his words against others should not be put into print unchallenged. The Belle Vue management past and present are really in a no-win situation, there is nothing to be gained for them coming out against PC, a bona-fide club legend.

Equally, for this particular issue of all ex-riders getting free admission, how can any speedway club operating on fine margins (in realty loss making) start ushering 200+ folk through the gate for free each week. I have long worked in PR and there aint any mileage out of Barry Ayres* heading in free every week. It means very little to the 50+ year olds who might remember him....and literally nothing to any new crowds they need to draw in.

I'm not surprised a PC book has been rolled out. He is a name that still means something to people, hence this thread. But given the health circumstances, I don't agree with it.

 

* sorry to Barry Ayres if he reads this! He had a crack, fair play. But wasn't up to it. I could have chosen from many others. 

That's the 2nd time you've brought up Peter's brain injury, very unfair of you in my opinion.  I too suffered brain haemorrhage in 2010, August 1st as it happens, which I think is about a month or so before PC had his, I underwent 7hrs of surgery at North Staffs, had platinum coiling inserted, so a fairly serious injury I'm sure you'd agree.  Within 2 months I returned to work, in the insolvency industry, so fairly high pressure and no room for error, yet I managed fine, continued in the role for another 4 years with no issues related to the injury.

So I have to wonder what makes you think that Peter should not be taken at his word?  

As for your comments to Tony Mac, well if it weren't for him we would probably never have got to read in such interesting detail about Peter's early life and career, I found it just about the best speedway book I've read and I've read most of them.

Backtrack- well it was bound to run out of steam since it was dedicated to such a short period in the grand scheme of the sport.

 

 

[steve roberts]

7 hours ago, nw42 said:

That's the 2nd time you've brought up Peter's brain injury, very unfair of you in my opinion.  I too suffered brain haemorrhage in 2010, August 1st as it happens, which I think is about a month or so before PC had his, I underwent 7hrs of surgery at North Staffs, had platinum coiling inserted, so a fairly serious injury I'm sure you'd agree.  Within 2 months I returned to work, in the insolvency industry, so fairly high pressure and no room for error, yet I managed fine, continued in the role for another 4 years with no issues related to the injury.

So I have to wonder what makes you think that Peter should not be taken at his word?  

As for your comments to Tony Mac, well if it weren't for him we would probably never have got to read in such interesting detail about Peter's early life and career, I found it just about the best speedway book I've read and I've read most of them.

Backtrack- well it was bound to run out of steam since it was dedicated to such a short period in the grand scheme of the sport.

 

 

...there were still many rider interviews I would have enjoyed reading. The likes of Tommy Knudsen, Jimmy Nilsen and Per Jonsson but, yes, I understand the reasoning behind the dis-continuation but a massive hole in my reading nevertheless.

[steve roberts]

9 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Personally I don't think that it would be anything near that figure. Take Belle Vue's record breaking Triple Crown winners of 1972, for example (as Peter highlights in his book), where only three riders are still with us. My team's starting line up (Oxford) in my first year attending (also 1972) only two riders have survived and one, Rick Timmo, lives in NZ so is unlikely to visit regularly.  With many teams traditionally having a very cosmopolitan make up the likelyhood of there being a great influx of "freebies" is negligible in my view and those who were domiclied in the UK during their riding careers how many used to live within easy distance of the track they represented including the British home-based riders? When Oxford ruled during the eighties we had Nielsen, Rasmussen and Sorensen (now all living back in Denmark), Cox (Thailand I believe?), Taylor (Mildenhall),  Grahame (Birmingham), Dugard (Brighton) Butler (Australia) with only Nigel De'Ath and Jon Surman still living locally (?) and therefore wouldn't be visiting Cowley on anything like a regular basis and dare I suggest most teams would have similar examples.

Of course it will become even less of an issue in the future with teams now filled with foreigners and the loss of tracks ever increasing.

However if the issue was to allow riders free entry to any track then that's an entirely different matter altogether but I don't think that what's been implied?

...as a postscript apparently according to PC ex ACU referees are entitled to free entry at any track which strikes as "double standards'" to me?

[OveFundinFan]

12 hours ago, nw42 said:

That's the 2nd time you've brought up Peter's brain injury, very unfair of you in my opinion.  I too suffered brain haemorrhage in 2010, August 1st as it happens, which I think is about a month or so before PC had his, I underwent 7hrs of surgery at North Staffs, had platinum coiling inserted, so a fairly serious injury I'm sure you'd agree.  Within 2 months I returned to work, in the insolvency industry, so fairly high pressure and no room for error, yet I managed fine, continued in the role for another 4 years with no issues related to the injury.

So I have to wonder what makes you think that Peter should not be taken at his word?  

As for your comments to Tony Mac, well if it weren't for him we would probably never have got to read in such interesting detail about Peter's early life and career, I found it just about the best speedway book I've read and I've read most of them.

Backtrack- well it was bound to run out of steam since it was dedicated to such a short period in the grand scheme of the sport.

Well said, nw42. You wrote what I was trying to put together. Sorry you suffered, must have been very worrying, glad to hear it ultimately not affected you too much.

Listening to his interview on tv I think Peter has done very well. As I read his problem was acted on quickly as Angela had to go back to the house for something she had forgot, found Peter not well, and got medical attention to Peter quickly. The quicker the medics can act the better the likely outcome will be.

[TonyMac]

5 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...as a postscript apparently according to PC ex ACU referees are entitled to free entry at any track which strikes as "double standards'" to me?

It's a fact confirmed by Graham Brodie, the UK's former No.1 referee.