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Peter Collins Book


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1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

Unfortunately the seller hasn't agreed  to me retracting my bid? Hopefully I will be out bided and, if not, expect me to offer the book for re-sale...watch this space?


This seller has 2 bids so don’t understand the problem retracting yours. Unless they are playing games and it’s backfired. Apologise with a good reason (someone bought for your birthday) and at least you have another bidder (sounds false with their strong stance). Either way, you have tried to explain and don’t need to pay anything. 
 

I’ve read this

As well as the above, timing is also important when retracting a bid: If there are 12 hours or more left before the listing ends, all of your bids can be retracted. If the listing is ending in less than 12 hours, you can retract your most recent bid if it's been less than an hour since you placed it.

If you do wish to cancel your bid – and believe you have a valid reason for doing so – timing is everything:

  • If the listing ends in over 12 hours, all bids can be retracted.
  • If the listing ends in under 12 hours, you can retract your most recent bid, but only if it's been less than an hour since you placed it.
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22 minutes ago, Hodgy said:


This seller has 2 bids so don’t understand the problem retracting yours. Unless they are playing games and it’s backfired. Apologise with a good reason (someone bought for your birthday) and at least you have another bidder (sounds false with their strong stance). Either way, you have tried to explain and don’t need to pay anything. 
 

I’ve read this

As well as the above, timing is also important when retracting a bid: If there are 12 hours or more left before the listing ends, all of your bids can be retracted. If the listing is ending in less than 12 hours, you can retract your most recent bid if it's been less than an hour since you placed it.

If you do wish to cancel your bid – and believe you have a valid reason for doing so – timing is everything:

  • If the listing ends in over 12 hours, all bids can be retracted.
  • If the listing ends in under 12 hours, you can retract your most recent bid, but only if it's been less than an hour since you placed it.

The seller has stated that the previous bidder has withdrawn and if my bid was therefore the only one forthcoming that by retracting he would have to cancel the auction and pay costs? Personally I don't understand what the problem is as there are two bids listed at present as you have highlighted and I have seen for myself?

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12 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

The seller has stated that the previous bidder has withdrawn and if my bid was therefore the only one forthcoming that by retracting he would have to cancel the auction and pay costs? Personally I don't understand what the problem is as there are two bids listed at present as you have highlighted and I have seen for myself?

I think they have backed themselves into a corner with a friends bid in order to maximise the price. If they accept the previous withdraw why not yours? Just say sorry I received it as a present for my birthday so don’t need another. According to the rules you can retract a bid within the 12 hour deadline. Then just leave it - don’t respond. 

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2 hours ago, Hodgy said:

I think they have backed themselves into a corner with a friends bid in order to maximise the price. If they accept the previous withdraw why not yours? Just say sorry I received it as a present for my birthday so don’t need another. According to the rules you can retract a bid within the 12 hour deadline. Then just leave it - don’t respond. 

My bid has successfully been removed...thanks for your help regarding this!

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Just reading PC book I borrowed and he seems a little bitter about BV etc but to say he had a long running feud with BV going back to Perrin days isn’t really clear? I remember seeing PC in the pits at Kirky Lane most home matches and he didn’t seem to be feuding. Wonder where it went wrong? 

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1 hour ago, Speedtiger said:

Just reading PC book I borrowed and he seems a little bitter about BV etc but to say he had a long running feud with BV going back to Perrin days isn’t really clear? I remember seeing PC in the pits at Kirky Lane most home matches and he didn’t seem to be feuding. Wonder where it went wrong? 

Read it again but slower.

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On 2/15/2023 at 4:44 PM, Speedtiger said:

Just reading PC book I borrowed and he seems a little bitter about BV etc but to say he had a long running feud with BV going back to Perrin days isn’t really clear? I remember seeing PC in the pits at Kirky Lane most home matches and he didn’t seem to be feuding. Wonder where it went wrong? 

He hasn't had a long running feud with Belle Vue at all. He fell out with Perrin at the end of the first season at the dog track and enjoyed cordial relations with Mole/Thomas and Mort/DG subsequent to that. To his credit, he supported BV at lots of events with his bike collection and other items. The idea of a 35 year long feud is patently not true. He was a regular at Belle Vue as you stated and flitted between the UK and Australia at that time. There was no feud over 35 years. PC came and went and did not take an active view aside from the casual visits. He was welcome on every such visit. 

This started in 2015 in the run up to the new stadium where Mort and DG made noises that the free list needed a big review as it had got out of hand. PC self appointed himself as the champion of the issue and started issuing demands that 100's and 100's should be allowed in with guests otherwise he was not attending. Many interpreted this as a noble gesture but nobody of sound mind in the Promoters/Business owner chair would ever accept the list presented. Especially as a great deal of the names were not connected to speedway or not ex-riders of any description.

As I have mentioned in previous posts, he was sent 4 letters to my knowledge from the BV promotion (and have copies of all) but refused to acknowledge or reply to them. Lack of simple respect and courteousness. You cannot negotiate with a party that refuses to come to the table in any walk of life. 

Even after 7 years of bile and spite thrown out by him, I still believe he should be at Belle Vue despite the bridges he has burned. For his riding achievements. However, he needs to completely alter his perspective and view and take a conciliatory path. I noticed in his book that ''all Mark Lemon needs to do is go to his house and sort it out with him'' which suggests he still believes he is the 'A' aide as they would say in boxing. He still believes he holds the power position and that is simply delusional.  

 

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11 minutes ago, IanCorcoran said:

He hasn't had a long running feud with Belle Vue at all. He fell out with Perrin at the end of the first season at the dog track and enjoyed cordial relations with Mole/Thomas and Mort/DG subsequent to that. To his credit, he supported BV at lots of events with his bike collection and other items. The idea of a 35 year long feud is patently not true. He was a regular at Belle Vue as you stated and flitted between the UK and Australia at that time. There was no feud over 35 years. PC came and went and did not take an active view aside from the casual visits. He was welcome on every such visit. 

This started in 2015 in the run up to the new stadium where Mort and DG made noises that the free list needed a big review as it had got out of hand. PC self appointed himself as the champion of the issue and started issuing demands that 100's and 100's should be allowed in with guests otherwise he was not attending. Many interpreted this as a noble gesture but nobody of sound mind in the Promoters/Business owner chair would ever accept the list presented. Especially as a great deal of the names were not connected to speedway or not ex-riders of any description.

As I have mentioned in previous posts, he was sent 4 letters to my knowledge from the BV promotion (and have copies of all) but refused to acknowledge or reply to them. Lack of simple respect and courteousness. You cannot negotiate with a party that refuses to come to the table in any walk of life. 

Even after 7 years of bile and spite thrown out by him, I still believe he should be at Belle Vue despite the bridges he has burned. For his riding achievements. However, he needs to completely alter his perspective and view and take a conciliatory path. I noticed in his book that ''all Mark Lemon needs to do is go to his house and sort it out with him'' which suggests he still believes he is the 'A' aide as they would say in boxing. He still believes he holds the power position and that is simply delusional.  

 

Thanks for this insight in to this issue. Most interesting. 

As I said in my post what isn’t clear in the book is precisely what actually went wrong with PC and BV and why by his negative actions he appears not to want to get things fixed when offered? Is this just about his daft free list or was their something else going on?

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11 hours ago, IanCorcoran said:

I noticed in his book that ''all Mark Lemon needs to do is go to his house and sort it out with him'' which suggests he still believes he is the 'A' aide as they would say in boxing. He still believes he holds the power position and that is simply delusional.  

Perhaps I have missed something here - please remind me of Mark Lemon's achievements during his riding career.

Under his "watch" the abysmal Belle Vue programme for last year's Peter Craven Memorial Trophy did not make one mention of Peter or his achievements.

The Peter Craven Suite still has no pictures or mention of the late, great Peter Craven.

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2 hours ago, Vic Meldrew said:

Perhaps I have missed something here - please remind me of Mark Lemon's achievements during his riding career.

Under his "watch" the abysmal Belle Vue programme for last year's Peter Craven Memorial Trophy did not make one mention of Peter or his achievements.

The Peter Craven Suite still has no pictures or mention of the late, great Peter Craven.

What do his riding achievements have to do with this? Or are you just being juvenile and spiteful?

Maybe contact him about this, he seems like a reasonable person and would likely hear you out.

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2 hours ago, Vic Meldrew said:

Perhaps I have missed something here - please remind me of Mark Lemon's achievements during his riding career.

Under his "watch" the abysmal Belle Vue programme for last year's Peter Craven Memorial Trophy did not make one mention of Peter or his achievements.

The Peter Craven Suite still has no pictures or mention of the late, great Peter Craven.

I’m confused. Too many Peters for me to follow. Are you saying there was no mention of two times world champion Peter Craven in the programme for the Peter Craven Memorial Trophy? Because there was. Or no mention of one time world champion Peter Collins which there probably wasn’t because why would there be? 
As to photos of Peter Craven in the suite named after him - which is a multi-use room not just meant for speedway - are there pictures of other riders there? If so, there should be one of Peter Craven. If not, why not asked the current promoters if they think there should be?

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10 minutes ago, JC! said:

What do his riding achievements have to do with this? Or are you just being juvenile and spiteful?

Maybe contact him about this, he seems like a reasonable person and would likely hear you out.

I presumed with the Victor Meldrew avatar it was an attempt at comedy that had just missed by a long way.

In terms of Lemon's management ability in his 5 years in charge, I'd say 4 Premiership play-off appearances, 2 Premiership play-off Finals, a Premiership Title, a Premiership Knock-out Cup win, a National League win, and a National League Cup Final was pretty decent, but I'm not sure what relevance this has to the topic in hand of Peter Collins' BV vendetta, his list of 100+ friends, and his scrawling an obnoxious message in a dying man's book.

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4 minutes ago, Wee Eck said:

I’m confused. Too many Peters for me to follow. Are you saying there was no mention of two times world champion Peter Craven in the programme for the Peter Craven Memorial Trophy? Because there was. Or no mention of one time world champion Peter Collins which there probably wasn’t because why would there be? 
As to photos of Peter Craven in the suite named after him - which is a multi-use room not just meant for speedway - are there pictures of other riders there? If so, there should be one of Peter Craven. If not, why not asked the current promoters if they think there should be?

You're correct.  Obviously lots of Peter Craven in the Peter Craven Memorial meeting programme (and a big photo of him on the cover).  Don't think there was any mention of Peter Collins in the Peter Craven programme (unless he bought one himself off ebay and scrawled a nice message in it).

No photos of anyone inside the Peter Craven suite, as you say it's a multi-use function suite used by lots of sports and schools.  But there are some big boards in the concourse with list details of the achievements and the multiple world titles won by Mauger, Fundin, Crump, Craven, and even the single title won by Collins.

 

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21 minutes ago, Wee Eck said:

I’m confused. Too many Peters for me to follow. Are you saying there was no mention of two times world champion Peter Craven in the programme for the Peter Craven Memorial Trophy? Because there was. Or no mention of one time world champion Peter Collins which there probably wasn’t because why would there be? 
As to photos of Peter Craven in the suite named after him - which is a multi-use room not just meant for speedway - are there pictures of other riders there? If so, there should be one of Peter Craven. If not, why not asked the current promoters if they think there should be?

...personally I would have thought a photo/plaque commemorating Peter Craven would be appropriate in a suite/room named after him?

Edited by steve roberts
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1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

...personally I would have thought a photo/plaque commemorating Peter Craven would be appropriate in a suite/room named after him?

Perhaps not within the control of the speedway promoters.

If you want to hire the Peter Craven suite you do so via Better Leisure, as a part of the Belle Vue Leisure complex ( same with pitches in the centre).  https://www.better.org.uk/leisure-centre/manchester/belle-vue-sports-village/facilities

Isn't speedway just a tenant on agreed dates now, rather than in control of the stadium? 

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48 minutes ago, Sir Sidney said:

Perhaps not within the control of the speedway promoters.

If you want to hire the Peter Craven suite you do so via Better Leisure, as a part of the Belle Vue Leisure complex ( same with pitches in the centre).  https://www.better.org.uk/leisure-centre/manchester/belle-vue-sports-village/facilities

Isn't speedway just a tenant on agreed dates now, rather than in control of the stadium? 

I have to confess I've no idea what facility the stadium offers on the wider scale and to what degree but thanks for the link.

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6 hours ago, PotteringAround said:

You're correct.  Obviously lots of Peter Craven in the Peter Craven Memorial meeting programme (and a big photo of him on the cover).  Don't think there was any mention of Peter Collins in the Peter Craven programme (unless he bought one himself off ebay and scrawled a nice message in it).

No photos of anyone inside the Peter Craven suite, as you say it's a multi-use function suite used by lots of sports and schools.  But there are some big boards in the concourse with list details of the achievements and the multiple world titles won by Mauger, Fundin, Crump, Craven, and even the single title won by Collins.

To put things into perspective Peter Collins has indeed won one individual world championship. Since 1936 (the first officially recognised world championship year), only 37 different riders have won the title. Being one of those 37 is something of an amazing achievement in itself.

Apart from that he has won 5 world team championships and 4 best pairs world championship.  So a total of 10 world championships. Some achievement.

Total speedway world championships                 
Ivan Mauger       12               
Ove Fundin         12           
Jason Crump      5        
Peter Craven       2               
Peter Collins     10

 

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