Peter Collins Book

[steve roberts]

11 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

Never lend a good book.....you may never see it again  

It's my brother so no issue but you're right...I've lost DVD's in the past by lending them out!

[OveFundinFan]

Just now, steve roberts said:

It's my brother so no issue but you're right...I've lost DVD's in the past by lending them out!

I planning to do a swop (loan) with my brother for Dave Mortons book.

[steve roberts]

1 minute ago, OveFundinFan said:

I planning to do a swop (loan) with my brother for Dave Mortons book.

...a good read! You'll enjoy it!

[OveFundinFan]

1 hour ago, Sir Sidney said:

Surely the whole issue here is that PC's recollection / presentation of his request is at odds with others who say they know. In the end you have to decide who you believe. This was discussed on the forum some time ago, with even the late Phil Rising saying he had seen the list of names, and that it amounted to a substantial number, some of which had no connection to Belle Vue. Someone more adept at searching the forum will no doubt be able to find it.

Whatever the truth, it doesn't diminish the completely hurtful inscription he made in the book Steve Casey paid for, nor explain why PC has allowed a dispute with Belle Vue to go on for 35 years ( according to his apology)

 

Edit: I've found the previous thread. It is under 

Peter Collins Article

By keepturningleft, October 26, 2017 in Speedway News and Discussions

 

It's worth a read, because many of the same arguments were aired then, and for anyone who has Speedway Stars from then there will be two articles to look at

Re PC holding a grudge from 35 years ago - as I said in my post I had left speedway behind before he retired from riding so knew nothing about his managerial days. I did say though I was shocked to find out what was going on behind the scenes, and that I surprised that BV still exists. So I can appreciate why he feels bad about what happened. It is obvious PC was passionate about BV remaining (surviving) as a club. In 2016 it nearly didn't, and he wasn't part of management then.

As for the "free entry". Prior to reading the book all I had heard it was like every man with a dog was on the list. Reading the book I understand there was two lists, I dont know if anyone has mentioned two lists on here. And PC is very clear on what the two lists represented.

I just hope that if ever I am up in court the members of the jury are reminded not to make up their minds without having listened carefully to the prosecution and the defence.

[IanCorcoran]

12 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

I just hope that if ever I am up in court the members of the jury are reminded not to make up their minds without having listened carefully to the prosecution and the defence.

And sometimes you are just simply bang to rights. I am sure that there are many still of the opinion that Harold Shipman was just a little trigger happy with the flu jab and that Fred West was over enthusiastic when he was fitting damp proof courses.(cue the indignant comments of ''How dare you compare him to a mass murder etc etc)

I have the list on my desk and it runs into the 100's and 100's and that's a fact. Whether you choose to believe that is none of my concern. The late Phil Rising was sent a copy and was well aware of its contents. This, I might remind you is from an ex-rider who retired some 36 years ago. According to some 20 odd riders I spoke with recently, all confirmed that they did not get a free pass during the one year PC was Promoter.

In addition, the tone of the many letters received personally and by the BV management were abusive and demanding. I would challenge anyone reading this to say they would capitulate to such demands made this way. The P&L of any speedway club sits in the hands of the Promoter and so does the decision of the 'free list', Not an ex-rider of any description. Someone earlier mention Hans Nielsen. Does anyone think Hans would make such a demand of the current Oxford promotion and expected this to be granted? Its unthinkable. 

I have bitten my tongue on this subject for 7 years and have an A4 ring binder full of letters and notes that are appalling from the hand of the ex-World Champion. I also have copies of 3 letters sent to him from the BV management asking to come down and discuss the matter. Plus 1 inviting him to discuss a meeting to celebrate 40 years since his 76 victory in 2016.  All unanswered. Interesting don't you think?

The disgusting note scrawled in my late friends book really was the last straw and the facts need to be put out there. For those of you intimating that there are two sides of the story, its a witch hunt and it was a moment of aberration, you are welcome to your opinion. I much prefer facts. 

I have a clear conscience about all of my postings. The book incident was the last of many such abusive incidents and only 10% of the iceberg has been revealed. There is no getting away from the fact that Collins has totally brought this upon himself. 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by IanCorcoran

[steve roberts]

50 minutes ago, IanCorcoran said:

And sometimes you are just simply bang to rights. I am sure that there are many still of the opinion that Harold Shipman was just a little trigger happy with the flu job and that Fred West was over enthusiastic when he was fitting damp proof courses.(cue the indignant comments of ''How dare you compare him to a mass murder etc etc)

I have the list on my desk and it runs into the 100's and 100's and that's a fact. Whether you choose to believe that is none of my concern. The late Phil Rising was sent a copy and was well aware of its contents. This, I might remind you is from an ex-rider who retired some 36 years ago. According to some 20 odd riders I spoke with recently, all confirmed that they did not get a free pass during the one year PC was Promoter.

In addition, the tone of the many letters received personally and by the BV management were abusive and demanding. I would challenge anyone reading this to say they would capitulate to such demands made this way. The P&L of any speedway club sits in the hands of the Promoter and so does the decision of the 'free list', Not an ex-rider of any description. Someone earlier mention Hans Nielsen. Does anyone think Hans would make such a demand of the current Oxford promotion and expected this to be granted? Its unthinkable. 

I have bitten my tongue on this subject for 7 years and have an A4 ring binder full of letters and notes that are appalling from the hand of the ex-World Champion. I also have copies of 3 letters sent to him from the BV management asking to come down and discuss the matter. Plus 1 inviting him to discuss a meeting to celebrate 40 years since his 76 victory in 2016.  All unanswered. Interesting don't you think?

The disgusting note scrawled in my late friends book really was the last straw and the facts need to be put out there. For those of you intimating that there are two sides of the story, its a witch hunt and it was a moment of aberration, you are welcome to your opinion. I much prefer facts. 

I have a clear conscience about all of my postings. The book incident was the last of many such abusive incidents and only 10% of the iceberg has been revealed. There is no getting away from the fact that Collins has totally brought this upon himself. 

 

A clearer picture is developing in what is a very a sad state of affairs.

[Garry1603]

1 hour ago, IanCorcoran said:

And sometimes you are just simply bang to rights. I am sure that there are many still of the opinion that Harold Shipman was just a little trigger happy with the flu job and that Fred West was over enthusiastic when he was fitting damp proof courses.(cue the indignant comments of ''How dare you compare him to a mass murder etc etc)

I have the list on my desk and it runs into the 100's and 100's and that's a fact. Whether you choose to believe that is none of my concern. The late Phil Rising was sent a copy and was well aware of its contents. This, I might remind you is from an ex-rider who retired some 36 years ago. According to some 20 odd riders I spoke with recently, all confirmed that they did not get a free pass during the one year PC was Promoter.

In addition, the tone of the many letters received personally and by the BV management were abusive and demanding. I would challenge anyone reading this to say they would capitulate to such demands made this way. The P&L of any speedway club sits in the hands of the Promoter and so does the decision of the 'free list', Not an ex-rider of any description. Someone earlier mention Hans Nielsen. Does anyone think Hans would make such a demand of the current Oxford promotion and expected this to be granted? Its unthinkable. 

I have bitten my tongue on this subject for 7 years and have an A4 ring binder full of letters and notes that are appalling from the hand of the ex-World Champion. I also have copies of 3 letters sent to him from the BV management asking to come down and discuss the matter. Plus 1 inviting him to discuss a meeting to celebrate 40 years since his 76 victory in 2016.  All unanswered. Interesting don't you think?

The disgusting note scrawled in my late friends book really was the last straw and the facts need to be put out there. For those of you intimating that there are two sides of the story, its a witch hunt and it was a moment of aberration, you are welcome to your opinion. I much prefer facts. 

I have a clear conscience about all of my postings. The book incident was the last of many such abusive incidents and only 10% of the iceberg has been revealed. There is no getting away from the fact that Collins has totally brought this upon himself. 

 

Thank you Ian. Most of us are watching this (sad) story evolve  from the outside. Inside information like this is very interesting.

.......... and can I reiterate I was a massive PC fan as a rider.

 

[stevehone]

being a Wimbledon supporter PC was neither here nor there with me except in World Finals, but i was put off him after his treatment of Kenny Carter wanting a British Final to be on (84?).

some can be great riders but not great people, and sometimes you have to differentiate between the two.

i take people by how they treat me personally, others tell me to avoid so and so, or so and so is horrible, but i'll take everyone as i find them.

saying that, it was quite a low move by PC with his message in Steve Casey's book

Edited February 7, 2023 by stevehone

[Speedtiger]

13 hours ago, IanCorcoran said:

And sometimes you are just simply bang to rights. I am sure that there are many still of the opinion that Harold Shipman was just a little trigger happy with the flu jab and that Fred West was over enthusiastic when he was fitting damp proof courses.(cue the indignant comments of ''How dare you compare him to a mass murder etc etc)

I have the list on my desk and it runs into the 100's and 100's and that's a fact. Whether you choose to believe that is none of my concern. The late Phil Rising was sent a copy and was well aware of its contents. This, I might remind you is from an ex-rider who retired some 36 years ago. According to some 20 odd riders I spoke with recently, all confirmed that they did not get a free pass during the one year PC was Promoter.

In addition, the tone of the many letters received personally and by the BV management were abusive and demanding. I would challenge anyone reading this to say they would capitulate to such demands made this way. The P&L of any speedway club sits in the hands of the Promoter and so does the decision of the 'free list', Not an ex-rider of any description. Someone earlier mention Hans Nielsen. Does anyone think Hans would make such a demand of the current Oxford promotion and expected this to be granted? Its unthinkable. 

I have bitten my tongue on this subject for 7 years and have an A4 ring binder full of letters and notes that are appalling from the hand of the ex-World Champion. I also have copies of 3 letters sent to him from the BV management asking to come down and discuss the matter. Plus 1 inviting him to discuss a meeting to celebrate 40 years since his 76 victory in 2016.  All unanswered. Interesting don't you think?

The disgusting note scrawled in my late friends book really was the last straw and the facts need to be put out there. For those of you intimating that there are two sides of the story, its a witch hunt and it was a moment of aberration, you are welcome to your opinion. I much prefer facts. 

I have a clear conscience about all of my postings. The book incident was the last of many such abusive incidents and only 10% of the iceberg has been revealed. There is no getting away from the fact that Collins has totally brought this upon himself. 

 

I assume you was/are part of the BV promotion as this is very interesting stuff, and your insight at BV really shows what truly went on behind the scenes.and how difficult and obstructive PC was apparently not responding to BV invitation to sort out things!!! It makes his disgraceful treatment of Mr Casey at the book signing even more despicable. His shallow apology doesn’t cut it for me., PC should be ashamed. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Speedtiger

[JC!]

15 hours ago, Sir Sidney said:

Surely the whole issue here is that PC's recollection / presentation of his request is at odds with others who say they know. In the end you have to decide who you believe. This was discussed on the forum some time ago, with even the late Phil Rising saying he had seen the list of names, and that it amounted to a substantial number, some of which had no connection to Belle Vue. Someone more adept at searching the forum will no doubt be able to find it.

Whatever the truth, it doesn't diminish the completely hurtful inscription he made in the book Steve Casey paid for, nor explain why PC has allowed a dispute with Belle Vue to go on for 35 years ( according to his apology)

 

Edit: I've found the previous thread. It is under 

Peter Collins Article

By keepturningleft, October 26, 2017 in Speedway News and Discussions

 

It's worth a read, because many of the same arguments were aired then, and for anyone who has Speedway Stars from then there will be two articles to look at

Despite this being 6 years ago, it's interesting that this is so similar to the current thread.

 I guess some leopards really don't ever change their spots. I think BV would be more than justified to stop offering PC olive branches now.

 

 

[steve roberts]

Despite all that has sadly transpired before and since the publication of his book there's no getting away from the fact that PC was a great rider during a time that England ruled the speedway world during the sport's last "Golden Era". He was a household name appearing regularly on National TV (the sadly missed "World of Sport" in particular) and I, for one, will never forget his contribution on track and the excitement he generated. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by steve roberts

[Bryce]

I think I saw PC race Kevin Keegan among others on a bicycle on Superstars? Or did I imagine that? Speedway can only dream of that level of mainstream exposure these days.

As for the business with the book signing, I think it's all such a shame. He hasn't behaved well and people are rightly angry about it. However, it's hardly in the same league as what Kenny Carter did and people still think it's okay to laud Carter's achievements as a racer. Likewise we can still appreciate what Peter Collins did on track. 

[PotteringAround]

32 minutes ago, Bryce said:

I think I saw PC race Kevin Keegan among others on a bicycle on Superstars? Or did I imagine that?

You imagined it.

Or rather you're misremembering two different things.    Collins did compete on Superstars a few times, and Kevin Keegan's crash on a pushbike was one of the most famous moments from the programme, but they weren't connected.   Collins never competed against Kevin Keegan on the programme.

 

[Bryce]

Thank you for the correction. It was a long time ago so I'm not surprised I got the detail wrong!

[steve roberts]

8 hours ago, Bryce said:

I think I saw PC race Kevin Keegan among others on a bicycle on Superstars? Or did I imagine that? Speedway can only dream of that level of mainstream exposure these days.

As for the business with the book signing, I think it's all such a shame. He hasn't behaved well and people are rightly angry about it. However, it's hardly in the same league as what Kenny Carter did and people still think it's okay to laud Carter's achievements as a racer. Likewise we can still appreciate what Peter Collins did on track. 

Yes he appeared on "Superstars" on a couple (?) of occasions if I recall...Geoff Capes was in one of the episodes and caused a bit of a rumpus with a protest but can't remember about what now?

[mikebv]

13 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Yes he appeared on "Superstars" on a couple (?) of occasions if I recall...Geoff Capes was in one of the episodes and caused a bit of a rumpus with a protest but can't remember about what now?

Geoff wanted everyone who had "shot putted" for Great Britain in for free to watch...

But David Vine wouldn't allow it....

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

Geoff wanted everyone who had "shot putted" for Great Britain in for free to watch...

But David Vine wouldn't allow it....

...David Vine? There's a name...used to front many programmes on the BBC. "A Question of Sport", "Ski Sunday", "It's a Knockout", "Pot Black" etc etc.

Edited February 11, 2023 by steve roberts

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

Geoff wanted everyone who had "shot putted" for Great Britain in for free to watch...

But David Vine wouldn't allow it....

...that wouldn't have been a very long list!

[steve roberts]

I've read many of the (auto)biographies of speedway riders that are currently in circulation. All are fascinating although promoter John Berry's is the best in my view (both books). The one rider I saw very differently after reading his biography was Kelly Moran...personally I changed my mind about him (although I admired him as a rider) as I found his "off-track" exploits tiresome and irresponsible on occasions. Those that I have read include Michael Lee (no holding back), Malcolm Simmons, Eric Boocock, John Louis, Dave and Chris Morton, Sam Ermolenko, Hans Nielsen, promoters Ian Thomas, Johnnie Hoskins, Len Silver & Reg Fearman,  Dave Jessup, Bert Harkins, Ivan Mauger, Barry Briggs, Tommy Jansson, Bob Kilby, Simon Wigg and Ove Fundin.

Edited February 11, 2023 by steve roberts

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

42 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I've read many of the (auto)biographies of speedway riders that are currently in circulation. All are fascinating although promoter John Berry's is the best in my view (both books). The one rider I saw very differently after reading his biography was Kelly Moran...personally I changed my mind about him (although I admired him as a rider) as I found his "off-track" exploits tiresome and irresponsible on occasions. Those that I have read include Michael Lee (no holding back), Malcolm Simmons, Eric Boocock, John Louis, Dave and Chris Morton, Sam Ermolenko, Hans Nielsen, promoters Ian Thomas, Johnnie Hoskins, Len Silver & Reg Fearman,  Dave Jessup, Bert Harkins, Ivan Mauger, Barry Briggs, Tommy Jansson, Bob Kilby, Simon Wigg and Ove Fundin.

I understand John Berry potentially had something in hand for a Billy Sanders publication that could've thrown a previously unseen light on the tragic events

Ultimately I believe he decided that his love and respect for Billy and his family was worth more than publishing what would've been an undoubtedly popular offering