Peter Collins Book

[steve roberts]

16 hours ago, Bayres said:

Hi guys Barry ayres here lol think I’m being picked on a bit aha pc is a legend I’m gona get his Book 

let me clarify a few things - I didn’t make it some of you are saying !- I agree a bit but what is the general thing about not making it ? - not being world champion is that what not making is ?  I made a decision to quit in 1986 after a bad injury arm and broken shoulder wrist elbow while riding for Belle vue at Sheffield, also in 1984 I broke several vertabrea in my back I had my share with injury but made a recovery ti ride in British British junior league in 1985 and had one of the highest avges in that league riding away in 1985 we visited Oxford Cowley 3 times I had 9 races and was unbeaten their in the 9 races infact my only regret was to not sighn for oxford as Simon wigg the very same day I sighned for Bellevue aces was on the telephone to Stuart bamforth wanting me to sighn for Oxford but by that time I had sighned for Bellevue the very same day - stuart bamforth did not tell me this - naturaly I was not exactly happy but decided just to go along with it anyway I’m sure some of the old timers may even remember this as stuart bamforth announced it at the signing day at Hyde rd but yes it is my biggest regret in speedway  - Belle vue first meeting away at Wolverhampton in 1986 I had a good meeting I think I scored 7 plus point infact I beat Sam ermolenko thst night also - after thst meeting yes I had my moments but I did find the going tough the team spirit thst year at belle vue was not great either just the way it was - I myself made the decision to quit as I knew I either wanted to be very good or not bother I had offers in 1987 from some second div clubs but decided it was not for me my decision no one else’s ,,I’ve made another succesfull career now as a gas engineer / powerflushing company — you guys need to understand that speedway is a very tough sport as riders we do make sacrifices because we love the sport but this sport can also tear you apart and demoralise you you got to be tough mentally it’s not easy - in 2019 I started to ride again yes as an old man and I won the British veteran championship at lydd in Kent it was fun yes how it shoud be - and yes why not let ex riders in for free not matter how they did I probably go twice a year now to belle vue it’s not like I’m gona go every week anyway their more to life than speedway - But we still did put our knecks on the line for this club and the fans we are not going to bankrupt it are we ! But until you put your backside on a speedway bike hammer down the straight at Bellevue Hyde rd 70 mph and put it in the corner please don’t say to us we did not make it just because we were not the pc,s of the world if we rode for Belle vue or any other team for that matter despite the politics as far as I’m concerned and this is all ability’s even the guys practicing on a Monday night at belle vue Hyde rd on that concrete slick track who never even made a team place - we made it 

thank you 

Barry ayres -

Belle vues number 6 1986 

British laydown vets champion 2019 

taking it easy 2023 but you never know . 

Great post! I would have witnessed those being a regular at Cowley!

Edited June 6, 2023 by steve roberts

[moxey63]

Here's one. 

Barry Ayres rode 12 matches for the Aces in 1986 (18 in all, 1984-86).

Ove Fundin rode 12 matches for the Aces in 1967.

Could you imagine supporters requesting that Mr Fundin should pay to get in and queue up with other fans at the admission gate?

No? So why are the likes of Barry Ayres any different? 

[Wee Eck]

18 hours ago, moxey63 said:

Here's one. 

Barry Ayres rode 12 matches for the Aces in 1986 (18 in all, 1984-86).

Ove Fundin rode 12 matches for the Aces in 1967.

Could you imagine supporters requesting that Mr Fundin should pay to get in and queue up with other fans at the admission gate?

No? So why are the likes of Barry Ayres any different? 

Where has anyone said that Barry Ayres or any other ex Belle Vue speedway rider has to pay to get in? The previous promotion at Belle Vue refused PC’s 100+ list of people he demanded had permanent passes. Instead, they said that any former BV rider just needed to call in advance and they’d be admitted free of charge. I gather the same invitation is extended by the current promotion. Part of the reason for this is that stadium entry is tightly monitored by Manchester City Council under the (dreaded) health and safety rules, so no one gets into the stands without having a ticket, even one issued free of charge. 

[geoff100]

I know an ex comets  boss who paid to get in northside!!

[Wee Eck]

40 minutes ago, geoff100 said:

I know an ex comets  boss who paid to get in northside!!

I would guess that was by choice

[steve roberts]

3 hours ago, Wee Eck said:

Where has anyone said that Barry Ayres or any other ex Belle Vue speedway rider has to pay to get in? The previous promotion at Belle Vue refused PC’s 100+ list of people he demanded had permanent passes. Instead, they said that any former BV rider just needed to call in advance and they’d be admitted free of charge. I gather the same invitation is extended by the current promotion. Part of the reason for this is that stadium entry is tightly monitored by Manchester City Council under the (dreaded) health and safety rules, so no one gets into the stands without having a ticket, even one issued free of charge. 

...that's not what was implied in his book from what I recall?

[steve roberts]

On 3/14/2023 at 7:35 AM, steve roberts said:

Not wishing to go over old ground but having just had my book returned I have re-read the relevant chapter and it's not true that PC "demanded" free passes for hundreds of ex-riders or that anyone issued with a pass would automatically attend. The whole thing has been taken out of context. The business over Steve Casey is a different matter however...

...just a reminder.

[Wee Eck]

27 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...just a reminder.

I am aware what PC said in his book. I am also aware of what was demanded of Chris Morton and David Gordon. And the steps taken by Chris, the late and much missed Steve Casey and others, including Ian Corcoran, to reach an accord with PC. 
Don’t forget that this is the same PC who claimed that he was involved in the design of the track at the NSS, having been consulted by Chris Morton when the complete opposite was the case. 
The truth and PC’s recollections are at odds here too. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Wee Eck

[steve roberts]

24 minutes ago, Wee Eck said:

I am aware what PC said in his book. I am also aware of what was demanded of Chris Morton and David Gordon. And the steps taken by Chris, the late and much missed Steve Casey and others, including Ian Corcoran, to reach an accord with PC. 
Don’t forget that this is the same PC who claimed that he was involved in the design of the track at the NSS, having been consulted by Chris Morton when the complete opposite was the case. 
The truth and PC’s recollections are at odds here too. 

Obviously the truth is out there somewhere but I have no knowledge of what may have been implied elsewhere and can therefore only comment on what I've personally read but if people have other recollections based upon other sources then that's fair enough.

Edited June 7, 2023 by steve roberts

[DontMeetYourHero]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

...that's not what was implied in his book from what I recall?

You're confusing two totally separate things....

What Collins said in his book... and the truth.

[steve roberts]

48 minutes ago, DontMeetYourHero said:

You're confusing two totally separate things....

What Collins said in his book... and the truth.

Well we can all speculate and who's to say what the truth is at the end of the day?

[PotteringAround]

30 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Well we can all speculate and who's to say what the truth is at the end of the day?

The truth is what the facts are.

Plenty of people have seen Collins' letters 

[steve roberts]

39 minutes ago, PotteringAround said:

The truth is what the facts are.

Plenty of people have seen Collins' letters 

Yes I'm aware of apparent "lists of riders" that PC has produced but has he at anytime "demanded" that they (apparently 100's?) qualify for free entry which is what some have implied on this particular thread and elsewhere? If someone can confirm that was indeed his intention when producing said "lists" other than hearsay then I'll be happy?

Edited June 7, 2023 by steve roberts

[DontMeetYourHero]

53 minutes ago, PotteringAround said:

The truth is what the facts are.

Plenty of people have seen Collins' letters 

Indeed.   And as you say it's "letters" (plural).   More than one BV promoter has been the recipient of the letter demanding free entry for the accompanying list of 100+ ex-riders, ex-sponsors, friends and hangers-on.

Ian Corcoran has verified this, Gordon Pairman has verified this, Phil Rising (an independent journalist and self-confessed Collins fan) even said that he'd seen the letters and confirmed the sad contents.

You'd have to be in serious denial not to accept the facts of the matter.

[Byker Biker]

7 hours ago, geoff100 said:

I know an ex comets  boss who paid to get in northside!!

He always does .......

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, DontMeetYourHero said:

Indeed.   And as you say it's "letters" (plural).   More than one BV promoter has been the recipient of the letter demanding free entry for the accompanying list of 100+ ex-riders, ex-sponsors, friends and hangers-on.

Ian Corcoran has verified this, Gordon Pairman has verified this, Phil Rising (an independent journalist and self-confessed Collins fan) even said that he'd seen the letters and confirmed the sad contents.

You'd have to be in serious denial not to accept the facts of the matter.

...not a question about being in denial but just wanting clarification. If the letters contained the word "demand" then that's the end of the matter.

[Wee Eck]

4 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...not a question about being in denial but just wanting clarification. If the letters contained the word "demand" then that's the end of the matter.

Out of curiosity, what other word would you suggest was used? I don’t think that “ask” is suitable as, from PC’s reaction alone, it is clear it wasn’t a request. 

[steve roberts]

7 hours ago, Wee Eck said:

Out of curiosity, what other word would you suggest was used? I don’t think that “ask” is suitable as, from PC’s reaction alone, it is clear it wasn’t a request. 

It's an emotive subject and down to the staging promoter to decide on what policy he/she feels is best suited. I appreciate both sides of the argument as regards free/paid entry and potential benefits that it may or may not generate. If I was a promoter I would certainly consider a "request" but a free for all (which personally I don't think  would be the reality for reasons I've highlighted previously on this thread) would certainly need serious thought and consideration weighing up any costings gained or lost on potential revenue.

One time promoter Steve Purchase invited me to a pre-season "ideas" session and it gave those round the table to put forward suggestions to help generate extra income. Whether inviting or having attend an ex-rider would generate interest with the fans is open to conjecture but personally I feel if promoted in the right way giving the fans the chance to meet an ex-rider after a meeting could create some interest. I recall Nigel Wagstaff holding post meeting presentations after a meeting and fans were given the opportunity to ask questions and generally mix with the riders which went down well with those present.

Edited June 8, 2023 by steve roberts

[moxey63]

Wasn't it PC's idea to invite prospective sponsors who possibly could have injected cash into the club? Surely allowing 100 or so individuals who would never have attended in the first place wouldn't have cost Belle Vue a dime... but could have helped swell the coffers. He wouldn't have brought 200 along every meeting, surely? Or is it 300 this week? 

Edited June 8, 2023 by moxey63

[Gordon Pairman]

3 hours ago, moxey63 said:

Wasn't it PC's idea to invite prospective sponsors who possibly could have injected cash into the club? Surely allowing 100 or so individuals who would never have attended in the first place wouldn't have cost Belle Vue a dime... but could have helped swell the coffers. He wouldn't have brought 200 along every meeting, surely? Or is it 300 this week? 

PC had no involvement whatsoever with the development of promotion of the NSS. The 100+ names “demanded” were ex-riders, occasional sponsors (of him) and friends and acquaintances with no involvement with PC. There was never any suggestion of bringing along potential future sponsors.

It was pointed out to him that any former Belle Vue rider would be welcomed - all they had to do was call in advance.

As a former promoter, my stance would be the same. Any former rider of a team in which I was involved would welcome past riders wishing to attend. Sometimes, we’d ask that they agree to be interviewed or make themselves available to meet supporters. 
 

If any former rider wanted to attend every meeting, a financial arrangement would probably be reached, 

As a former promoter, I have had personal invitations to attend several tracks, (something I can rately take up) but I wouldn’t expect to attend free of charge every meeting at one track.