Peter Collins Book

[KevtheRev]

On 2/1/2023 at 9:38 AM, IanCorcoran said:

Heartfelt apology or cynical PR damage limitation exercise? mmm 

Of course there will be opinions as to both. I know what mine is.

It resembles the statements you see when MPs or other such celebrities get their fingers caught in the till or other such indiscretions where they are bang to rights.

Here's where I have a problem with it :

1. Why did it take from the 2nd November until now to get the apology?

2. Would the apology have been forthcoming if the incident had not been published on social media?

3. If the apology was based on the fact that he didn't know of Steve's illness - is he saying he would be justified if Steve had had a clean bill of health?

4. He didn't know Steve was ill. Very, very difficult to believe. Steve was in communication with his wife (again to try and resolve the 'issues') and she was well aware. Plus I know many of his inner circle who also knew. And apparently Peter didn't?

5. A 35 year long feud that exploded on that particular night? really?

6. A 35 year long feud that spanned 4 different promotions? That takes you back to the time when he was part of one such promotion! 

The situation commenced in 2016 at the start of the NSS opening. That I do know. 

Interestingly, some 20+ ex-riders have been in touch to commiserate and ask about arrangements, I asked them the same question. - ''Did you get a free pass when PC was Promoter?'' the answer was unanimous and I will let you guess the answer. It may surprise you. 

The good news is that I am reliably informed that book sales have not been affected. At least that is one consolation to this whole affair

The truth sets you free

 

 

 

 

Completely agree.

Nothing more than damage limitation.

[proud panther]

Personally, I wouldn't give PC any money after his shocking behaviour. The apology made it worse in my opinion, as it's clearly only an attempt to protect book sales. 

[PotteringAround]

At least the Casey family have got an apology, which is something.   However it does seem to be a begrudging apology forced by his book publisher, perhaps out of fear of being left with a shed full of unsold books.

And as others have said, the apology does beg more questions.

1. Collins claims not to know that Steve Casey was ill, yet he has been fighting the disease for several years.  Collins' wife knew he was ill.  Members of Collins' inner circle of friends knew.  Steve Casey was a well-known figure.  It's hard to believe Collins didn't know.    Maybe it just slipped his mind in that moment of incandescent rage?

2.  Collins says his feud with the promotion has gone on 35 years.  That takes us back to 1988 when he himself was the BV promoter.  Did he have a feud with himself?   It's well-documented that Collins had a falling-out with John Perrin not long after they took over BV.  And Perrin was a rough type who could fall out with anyone (despite also having his good side), so I wouldn't totally blame Collins for having a feud with him.  But surely that would only last until the end of the Perrin era?  The BV promotion has changed hands at least three times since then, and there have also been changes of personnel within the promotion during those times.   So how has the feud managed to continue against people who had no connection with the actual feud?    The only common connection is Collins - and in particular his list of 100+ people who he thinks should have a free pass to every Belle Vue match.  (This list contains some former Aces riders, some former Aces juniors, some former non-Aces riders, some ex-Collins sponsors and friends from 50 years back, and some people with no connection to the sport at all).  This list has been presented to every new promoter since Perrin, and unsurprisingly rejected by every new promoter.  I suspect that Collins knows that no one could ever accept such a nonsensical list, and he uses it on purpose to cause trouble. 

Of course a few of the people on the list are genuine ex-Aces, but those are admitted to BV anyway.  Eric Broadbelt, Ken Eyre, Bill Powell are all regulars, as were Peter Williams and Taffy Owen until their deaths.  Chris Morton pops along every so often (which must be difficult considering how his involvement ended).  Joe Screen has been.  Andy and Paul Smith are obviously there with their son/nephew Jack, and Carl Stonehewer came when his son was second-half riding.  Geoff Pusey came along last year with an old upright and was welcomed and allowed to do a few laps in the interval.  Peter Ravn came with his clutch business and was welcomed and interviewed on the centre green.  Basically any ex-Aces riders are welcomed and so would Collins have been if he'd wanted to come along....

...And that's where Steve Casey came in.  An ex-rider, but even more so a passionate Belle Vue supporter, he felt it was wrong that Collins was denying himself a chance to watch the sport he had graced for over a decade.  Like many, he felt that people like Collins should still be part of Belle Vue.  He tried, off his own bat, to work a solution so that Collins could end his petty vendetta and come along to BV without losing face.  But despite Steve Casey's best efforts, Collins proved too stubborn and threw it all back at him.

What Collins did to a dying gentleman who tried to help him is unforgiveable, and the apology is still very weak.

 

[Fromafar]

While he has issued an Apology,it is very hard to believe that he did not know that Steve Casey was ill  given his contacts in the Sport.Perhaps his apology should have been worded differently.

[Goldhawk]

This thread needs to be closed and matter now sorted out in private which would be best all round for everyone.

P.C. has apologised,  that surely needs to be end of it as far as social media is concerned.

  

[JC!]

49 minutes ago, Goldhawk said:

P.C. has apologised,  that surely needs to be end of it as far as social media is concerned.

  

Hopefully the appropriate lessons have been learnt.

Edited February 2, 2023 by JC!

[Humphrey Appleby]

On 1/3/2023 at 8:25 AM, steve roberts said:

Personally I don't think that it would be anything near that figure. Take Belle Vue's record breaking Triple Crown winners of 1972, for example (as Peter highlights in his book), where only three riders are still with us. My team's starting line up (Oxford) in my first year attending (also 1972) only two riders have survived and one, Rick Timmo, lives in NZ so is unlikely to visit regularly.  With many teams traditionally having a very cosmopolitan make up the likelyhood of there being a great influx of "freebies" is negligible in my view and those who were domiclied in the UK during their riding careers how many used to live within easy distance of the track they represented including the British home-based riders? When Oxford ruled during the eighties we had Nielsen, Rasmussen and Sorensen (now all living back in Denmark), Cox (Thailand I believe?), Taylor (Mildenhall),  Grahame (Birmingham), Dugard (Brighton) Butler (Australia) with only Nigel De'Ath and Jon Surman still living locally (?) and therefore wouldn't be visiting Cowley on anything like a regular basis and dare I suggest most teams would have similar examples.

Of course it will become even less of an issue in the future with teams now filled with foreigners and the loss of tracks ever increasing.

However if the issue was to allow riders free entry to any track then that's an entirely different matter altogether but I don't think that what's been implied?

I wouldn't think there would be huge number of ex-riders wanting to get in without paying, but having dabbled in sports promotion (albeit not speedway), it invariably doesn't just stop with the ex-competitors. Can you just let my mate who's with me in, which becomes mates, and then mates of mates and before you know it, you're losing a significant amount of revenue.

You wouldn't expect that Hans Nielsen would have to pay to get into Oxford, out of respect for his achievements and because there's probably some promotional benefit if he turns up. You'd probably also wouldn't expect any rider with any significant association with Oxford to pay, but does it apply to riders who did one meeting with the juniors for example...?

If I were a ex-rider though, and knowing the perilous state of speedway finances, I'd be fully willing to pay for entry unless I was expected to do some promotional activity at the meeting. 

I certainly don't understand why ex-officials should be able to get into a meeting without paying, unless that's considered part of their remuneration (a sort of crap pension). 

[Speedtiger]

From what I can gather the issue with PC and BV promotions wasn’t genuine ex BV riders not being welcome, quite the opposite, it was the ridiculous list with a cast of hundreds that PC wanted to be let in free…his mates, old sponsors, people with little or no connection to BV or Speedway. Try to get free and watch at Man City or United…not a chance. 

[RoundTheBoards]

On 1/2/2023 at 10:25 PM, steve roberts said:

 Take Belle Vue's record breaking Triple Crown winners of 1972, for example (as Peter highlights in his book), where only three riders are still with us.

If only 3 of those riders are still alive, and Eric Broadbelt and Ken Eyre are regulars at BV every week, then it seems it is only Collins who is being a bit of a prick about it.

If the other 97+ people on his list aren't ex-title winning riders, then who are they?  Wonder if his publicist and apologist can enlighten us?

[steve roberts]

16 hours ago, Speedtiger said:

From what I can gather the issue with PC and BV promotions wasn’t genuine ex BV riders not being welcome, quite the opposite, it was the ridiculous list with a cast of hundreds that PC wanted to be let in free…his mates, old sponsors, people with little or no connection to BV or Speedway. Try to get free and watch at Man City or United…not a chance. 

...not sure, or remember, if this was quoted in his book? I've since lent it to my brother. I'd be interested to know where that figure came from?

[steve roberts]

16 hours ago, RoundTheBoards said:

If only 3 of those riders are still alive, and Eric Broadbelt and Ken Eyre are regulars at BV every week, then it seems it is only Collins who is being a bit of a prick about it.

If the other 97+ people on his list aren't ex-title winning riders, then who are they?  Wonder if his publicist and apologist can enlighten us?

...again, where has this figure come from? Can't recall a specific reference in his book unless I missed it?

[iris123]

By coincidence, i just read elsewhere that Briggo for his Golden Greats meeting at Edinburgh in the 90s wanted to charge all the track staff to get into the meeting they were going to work at, and was told to take a running jump

[steve roberts]

58 minutes ago, iris123 said:

By coincidence, i just read elsewhere that Briggo for his Golden Greats meeting at Edinburgh in the 90s wanted to charge all the track staff to get into the meeting they were going to work at, and was told to take a running jump

I recall reading Eric Boocock's book that Stuart Bamforth insisted that he didn't want any "freeloaders' getting into meetings for nothing and vitually everybody paid to get in...the St.John Ambulance Brigade included. Taffy Owen who ran the track shop and paid a rent was also expected to pay. Members of the press including the likes of Richard Frost and Dick Bott who had given Belle Vue such good, and free, publicity had to pay to get in to do their job. Apparently he was basing his decision on a system that had been adopted in Aussie in that everyone (including the competitors) were expected to pay and then signed a book and were re-imbursed to discourage "freelodaers" however he forgot to tell anyone of his intentions and there was so much animosity flying about prior to the first meeting.

[Fromafar]

PC certainly made a” mountain out of a molehill” regarding Who he thought should pay.He should ask himself how many were really bothered whether they paid or not,or whether they would attend anyway.Seems a really trivial thing to get so involved in dispute to the degree he has.He has certainly tarnished his reputation with  the matter that followed.Sad really.Suspect there was more too it.

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Fromafar

[JC!]

On 2/5/2023 at 8:29 AM, steve roberts said:

...again, where has this figure come from? Can't recall a specific reference in his book unless I missed it?

I think that this has been quoted earlier in this thread.

[OveFundinFan]

I have finished reading "Keeping It On The Tyres", PC's autobiography.  Its an amazing book, tells of how not only his own pursuit of speedway started, but also a whole stream of riders that came from a small village outside of Manchester, called Partington.                               

The history of his career as a rider is very well documented, and some really good pictures.  By the time PC had stopped racing I had stopped going to meetings, so my eyes have been opened re what was going on behind the scenes ie the management of Belle Vue as a speedway race track/team. Full of detail, not all of it good for BV nor the sport in general. It is a wonder how BV survived it all. 

Chapter 53 "Bail-Outs, Passes and Respect" contains all the detail of the rider pass issue that many on here have referred to. Perhaps those who have put their copy of the book on a shelf never to read it should take it down and read it. Then at least you would know what was suggested by PC, was it up to 100/200 of his mates and hangers on that he was asking to be given passes, and make your own minds up. Also, interesting what he offered to BV when they actually moved into the NSS in 2016.  It was refused - a legacy of Belle Vues history.

The whole of chapter 53 was an eye opener for me, it is one of the longer chapters in the book, but hang on in, its a good read. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by OveFundinFan

[steve roberts]

3 hours ago, JC! said:

I think that this has been quoted earlier in this thread.

Without wishing to come across as pedantic and not wanting to trawl thru' pages on this particular thread but I'd be interested to know how this figure was arrived at? Was it quoted in his book? I'll check again when my brother has finished reading it. I'd be more than happy if someone could enlighten me in the meantime...

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, OveFundinFan said:

I have finished reading "Keeping It On The Tyres", PC's autobiography.  Its an amazing book, tells of how not only his own pursuit of speedway started, but also a whole stream of riders that came from a small village outside of Manchester, called Partington.                               

The history of his career as a rider is very well documented, and some really good pictures.  By the time PC had stopped racing I had stopped going to meetings, so my eyes have been opened re what was going on behind the scenes ie the management of Belle Vue as a speedway race track/team. Full of detail, not all of it good for BV nor the sport in general. It is a wonder how BV survived it all. 

Chapter 53 "Bail-Outs, Passes and Respect" contains all the detail of the rider pass issue that many on here have referred to. Perhaps those who have put their copy of the book on a shelf never to read it should take it down and read it. Then at least you would know what was suggested by PC, was it up to 100/200 of his mates and hangers on that he was asking to be given passes, and make your own minds up. Also, interesting what he offered to BV when they actually moved into the NSS in 2016.  It was refused - a legacy of Belle Vues history.

The whole of chapter 53 was an eye opener for me, it is one of the longer chapters in the book, but hang on in, its a good read. 

...I'll have to re-read the chapter when I get my book back!

[Sir Sidney]

3 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

I have finished reading "Keeping It On The Tyres", PC's autobiography.  Its an amazing book, tells of how not only his own pursuit of speedway started, but also a whole stream of riders that came from a small village outside of Manchester, called Partington.                               

The history of his career as a rider is very well documented, and some really good pictures.  By the time PC had stopped racing I had stopped going to meetings, so my eyes have been opened re what was going on behind the scenes ie the management of Belle Vue as a speedway race track/team. Full of detail, not all of it good for BV nor the sport in general. It is a wonder how BV survived it all. 

Chapter 53 "Bail-Outs, Passes and Respect" contains all the detail of the rider pass issue that many on here have referred to. Perhaps those who have put their copy of the book on a shelf never to read it should take it down and read it. Then at least you would know what was suggested by PC, was it up to 100/200 of his mates and hangers on that he was asking to be given passes, and make your own minds up. Also, interesting what he offered to BV when they actually moved into the NSS in 2016.  It was refused - a legacy of Belle Vues history.

The whole of chapter 53 was an eye opener for me, it is one of the longer chapters in the book, but hang on in, its a good read. 

Surely the whole issue here is that PC's recollection / presentation of his request is at odds with others who say they know. In the end you have to decide who you believe. This was discussed on the forum some time ago, with even the late Phil Rising saying he had seen the list of names, and that it amounted to a substantial number, some of which had no connection to Belle Vue. Someone more adept at searching the forum will no doubt be able to find it.

Whatever the truth, it doesn't diminish the completely hurtful inscription he made in the book Steve Casey paid for, nor explain why PC has allowed a dispute with Belle Vue to go on for 35 years ( according to his apology)

 

Edit: I've found the previous thread. It is under 

Peter Collins Article

By keepturningleft, October 26, 2017 in Speedway News and Discussions

 

It's worth a read, because many of the same arguments were aired then, and for anyone who has Speedway Stars from then there will be two articles to look at

Edited February 6, 2023 by Sir Sidney

[OveFundinFan]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...I'll have to re-read the chapter when I get my book back!

Never lend a good book.....you may never see it again