Peter Collins Book

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, topaz325 said:

Only started reading the book that covers Peters early life and he certainly packed a lot into his childhood and youth, also how close he was with other guys from an early age who would go on to race Speedway, Chris and Dave Morton, Dave Trownson, Andy Reid (or  am I mixing up with another Andy Reid) and later Graham Drury.

Remember Graham Drury as a "Cheetah" and not being able to team ride to save his life! I recall he spoke on the microphone in 1983 trying to convince fans that moving up was the wrong way to go (Norther Sports and 1984...the rest is history) but I guess it was more a personal thing with him because he realised that he wasn't part of the bigger picture. However he successfully sued the promotion for breach of contract but I would imagine that Northern Sports didn't lose much sleep over that little incident?

[topaz325]

3 hours ago, topaz325 said:

Only started reading the book that covers Peters early life and he certainly packed a lot into his childhood and youth, also how close he was with other guys from an early age who would go on to race Speedway, Chris and Dave Morton, Dave Trownson, Andy Reid (or  am I mixing up with another Andy Reid) and later Graham Drury.

Just checked , yes its the same Andy Reid I remember , Worky 1977 (a year before my time) and Glasgow among others.

[topaz325]

30 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Remember Graham Drury as a "Cheetah" and not being able to team ride to save his life! I recall he spoke on the microphone in 1983 trying to convince fans that moving up was the wrong way to go (Norther Sports and 1984...the rest is history) but I guess it was more a personal thing with him because he realised that he wasn't part of the bigger picture. However he successfully sued the promotion for breach of contract but I would imagine that Northern Sports didn't lose much sleep over that little incident?

In the Star this week piece on Graham Drury doing a talk and question and answer session in aid of Birmingham Speedway supporters club, it also mentions the court case.

[steve roberts]

7 minutes ago, topaz325 said:

In the Star this week piece on Graham Drury doing a talk and question and answer session in aid of Birmingham Speedway supporters club, it also mentions the court case.

That'll be interesting? Would be a good initiative for the more forward thinking promotions allowing riders access to the stadium free if in return the rider was happy to give a talk after the meeting? Obviously there are some riders who would find public speaking difficult (don't many of us?) but I'm sure some would be happy to do so given the right incentive. I thoroughly enjoyed the interviews that Lee Ashby carried out on line with former riders although I would have pressed some of the riders more with their answers to some of the questions...John Davis in particular!

[spiegal]

4 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

That'll be interesting? Would be a good initiative for the more forward thinking promotions allowing riders access to the stadium free if in return the rider was happy to give a talk after the meeting? Obviously there are some riders who would find public speaking difficult (don't many of us?) but I'm sure some would be happy to do so given the right incentive. I thoroughly enjoyed the interviews that Lee Ashby carried out on line with former riders although I would have pressed some of the riders more with their answers to some of the questions...John Davis in particular!

Don't be silly...that's called "promoting"....that's a word I would doubt ever appears in anything coming out of Rugby.

[steve roberts]

28 minutes ago, topaz325 said:

Just checked , yes its the same Andy Reid I remember , Worky 1977 (a year before my time) and Glasgow among others.

Recall he rode for Cradley in 1984 (?)

[topaz325]

1 minute ago, steve roberts said:

Recall he rode for Cradley in 1984 (?)

21.01.1957, Partington, England

British Clubs:

Crewe (1974)
Scunthorpe (1974)
Barrow (1974, 1978)
Ellesmere Port (1975)
Stoke (1976)
Workington (1977)
Glasgow (1979-1981, 1983-1986)
Cradley (1980, 1982-1984)

[steve roberts]

7 minutes ago, spiegal said:

Don't be silly...that's called "promoting"....that's a word I would doubt ever appears in anything coming out of Rugby.

Although Nigel Wagstaff wasn't everybody's cup of tea he would often hold a post meeting question & answer session with a couple of riders and throwing it open to the public to join in.

[TonyMac]

4 hours ago, JC! said:

Clearly your argument is emotional rather than based in any form of business logic, so best just agree to disagree.

 

How is failing to make former favourites welcome logical or sound business practice? On the contrary.

It's obvious that that vast majority of ex-riders wouldn't pay to get in anyway, so the promoters would lose nothing financially.

But then consider the potential positives from their presence on race night  . . .

As Steve has previously tried to explain, there is anecdotal evidence that a number of supporters, both existing and past, enjoy meeting up with old faces who remind them of their younger days and a better time for speedway. Let's face it, too many speedway meetings drag on so long these days that a friendly chat with an ex-rider will often be the highlight of that fan's night.

If he or she leaves the stadium feeling good, or at least believing that their time and money showed some tangible reward, then they are more likely to return.

Think of the goodwill factor, too. Does it do any speedway promoter good to make ex-riders even slightly unwelcome or made to feel like parasites? If a track's legends and former favourites help spread the word about their local former track it can possibly lead to newer fans coming along - and help to keep some who are in despair and thinking of abandoning the sport. Imagine the fan's thought process: "I can't really be bothered go to (insert track name) tonight, its cold and damp, I'll be waiting around for ages between heats, fuel and admission costs have gone up . . . but, then again, I KNOW I'll enjoy meeting and speaking to my old heroes, so, sod it, I'll go." 

Whether you agree with PC's stance on passes or not (he and I don't agree on everything he has written about every subject in the book), it doesn't do Belle Vue or any other track any good to have this perpetual public debate. It's a needless negative for the best racetrack in the UK where, by general consensus, average crowd figures for domestic meetings were poor last season in relation to the success achieved by the Aces. I'm not suggesting that letting 20 ex-riders into the NSS every home meeting will make much difference to the paying attendance, but it certainly won't do any harm.

Some promoters 'get it' (Berwick gave Craig Pendlebury a life-long stadium pass even though he rode so little for them) but they all need to dig their heads out of the sand on this and many other issues.

British speedway needs all the goodwill it can possible muster. It should look at the bigger picture.
 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by TonyMac

[JC!]

1 hour ago, TonyMac said:

How is failing to make former favourites welcome logical or sound business practice? On the contrary.

It's obvious that that vast majority of ex-riders wouldn't pay to get in anyway, so the promoters would lose nothing financially.

But then consider the potential positives from their presence on race night  . . .

As Steve has previously tried to explain, there is anecdotal evidence that a number of supporters, both existing and past, enjoy meeting up with old faces who remind them of their younger days and a better time for speedway. Let's face it, too many speedway meetings drag on so long these days that a friendly chat with an ex-rider will often be the highlight of that fan's night.

If he or she leaves the stadium feeling good, or at least believing that their time and money showed some tangible reward, then they are more likely to return.

Think of the goodwill factor, too. Does it do any speedway promoter good to make ex-riders even slightly unwelcome or made to feel like parasites? If a track's legends and former favourites help spread the word about their local former track it can possibly lead to newer fans coming along - and help to keep some who are in despair and thinking of abandoning the sport. Imagine the fan's thought process: "I can't really be bothered go to (insert track name) tonight, its cold and damp, I'll be waiting around for ages between heats, fuel and admission costs have gone up . . . but, then again, I KNOW I'll enjoy meeting and speaking to my old heroes, so, sod it, I'll go." 

Whether you agree with PC's stance on passes or not (he and I don't agree on everything he has written about every subject in the book), it doesn't do Belle Vue or any other track any good to have this perpetual public debate. It's a needless negative for the best racetrack in the UK where, by general consensus, average crowd figures for domestic meetings were poor last season in relation to the success achieved by the Aces. I'm not suggesting that letting 20 ex-riders into the NSS every home meeting will make much difference to the paying attendance, but it certainly won't do any harm.

Some promoters 'get it' (Berwick gave Craig Pendlebury a life-long stadium pass even though he rode so little for them) but they all need to dig their heads out of the sand on this and many other issues.

British speedway needs all the goodwill it can possible muster. It should look at the bigger picture.
 

 

Anecdotal evidence , you can get someone out there to agree to pretty much anything. Lots and lots of highly emotional words, all your own (highly subjective) opinion stated as fact. 

If you need goodwill maybe invite injured forces personnel for free, that or one of a dozen other ideas. They don't fit with your distorted view, you say 'how is failing to make former riders welcome logical or good business practice', no-one that I can see said not to make them welcome - just that they shouldn't automatically be allowed in free. 

Sadly it's quite transparent that you are not basing your opinion on running a business profitably through any form of meaningful research, how do I know that - 'anecdotal evidence'. Or, alternatively, you are unconsciously biased as you may have a business thats lifeblood is keeping these old memories alive.

Edited January 12, 2023 by JC!

[steve roberts]

4 hours ago, TonyMac said:

How is failing to make former favourites welcome logical or sound business practice? On the contrary.

It's obvious that that vast majority of ex-riders wouldn't pay to get in anyway, so the promoters would lose nothing financially.

But then consider the potential positives from their presence on race night  . . .

As Steve has previously tried to explain, there is anecdotal evidence that a number of supporters, both existing and past, enjoy meeting up with old faces who remind them of their younger days and a better time for speedway. Let's face it, too many speedway meetings drag on so long these days that a friendly chat with an ex-rider will often be the highlight of that fan's night.

If he or she leaves the stadium feeling good, or at least believing that their time and money showed some tangible reward, then they are more likely to return.

Think of the goodwill factor, too. Does it do any speedway promoter good to make ex-riders even slightly unwelcome or made to feel like parasites? If a track's legends and former favourites help spread the word about their local former track it can possibly lead to newer fans coming along - and help to keep some who are in despair and thinking of abandoning the sport. Imagine the fan's thought process: "I can't really be bothered go to (insert track name) tonight, its cold and damp, I'll be waiting around for ages between heats, fuel and admission costs have gone up . . . but, then again, I KNOW I'll enjoy meeting and speaking to my old heroes, so, sod it, I'll go." 

Whether you agree with PC's stance on passes or not (he and I don't agree on everything he has written about every subject in the book), it doesn't do Belle Vue or any other track any good to have this perpetual public debate. It's a needless negative for the best racetrack in the UK where, by general consensus, average crowd figures for domestic meetings were poor last season in relation to the success achieved by the Aces. I'm not suggesting that letting 20 ex-riders into the NSS every home meeting will make much difference to the paying attendance, but it certainly won't do any harm.

Some promoters 'get it' (Berwick gave Craig Pendlebury a life-long stadium pass even though he rode so little for them) but they all need to dig their heads out of the sand on this and many other issues.

British speedway needs all the goodwill it can possible muster. It should look at the bigger picture.
 

 

...I dunno Tony but the example I gave regarding Arne Pander who visited Cowley on a one-off which enticed a "lost fan" to return to the sport wasn't a bad return in monetary terms?

[JC!]

24 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...I dunno Tony but the example I gave regarding Arne Pander who visited Cowley on a one-off which enticed a "lost fan" to return to the sport wasn't a bad return in monetary terms?

There you go with that well considered,wide ranging, bang up to date research. Great anecdote though....

As Pander (legend status at Oxford btw) brought one new punter so let's let every ex rider in free. Staggeringly naive.

[steve roberts]

1 minute ago, JC! said:

There you go with that well considered,wide ranging, bang up to date research. Great anecdote though....

As Pander (legend status at Oxford btw) brought one new punter so let's let every ex rider in free. Staggeringly naive.

...Yep I thought so!

[JC!]

6 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...Yep I thought so!

Oh I'm certain of that being true, keep 'em coming, very relevant in 2023

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, JC! said:

Oh I'm certain of that being true, keep 'em coming, very relevant in 2023

I shall do my best to oblige!

Edited January 12, 2023 by steve roberts

[steve roberts]

PC mentions in his book the occasion that Alan Wilkinson took issue over a referee's decision at King's Lynn after an incident with Ian Turner and stormed up the ladder (after first slipping up to the cheers of the crowd!) to the ref's box to have it out with him! Got that episode on DVD...a harsh exclusion in my opinion. Typical "Wilkie" robust pass but not worthy of being thrown out of the race.

[nw42]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

PC mentions in his book the occasion that Alan Wilkinson took issue over a referee's decision at King's Lynn after an incident with Ian Turner and stormed up the ladder (after first slipping up to the cheers of the crowd!) to the ref's box to have it out with him! Got that episode on DVD...a harsh exclusion in my opinion. Typical "Wilkie" robust pass but not worthy of being thrown out of the race.

I was at that meeting,  can remember Wilkie doing just that,  the Lynn fans in the stand were all jeering him but he'd made his mind up about having his say, as you say, typical Wilkie.  I think it was a bank holiday lunch time meeting with a return at Hyde Rd later, which meant a fair old dash back.

[steve roberts]

5 hours ago, nw42 said:

I was at that meeting,  can remember Wilkie doing just that,  the Lynn fans in the stand were all jeering him but he'd made his mind up about having his say, as you say, typical Wilkie.  I think it was a bank holiday lunch time meeting with a return at Hyde Rd later, which meant a fair old dash back.

Remember when "Wilkie" strode across the centre green at Cowley and ripped the tapes with his bare hands from the starting gate! Great days and as you can imagine got the crowd going and adding to the atmosphere! For the life of me I can't recall what caused the outrage? Can only guess that the referee had excluded him for some misdemeanour? Great character and sadly missed.

I never got a copy of his book but I can only guess it was full of anecdotes? Imagine an interview or a Q & A session with the great man?

Edited January 13, 2023 by steve roberts

[mikebv]

16 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Remember when "Wilkie" strode across the centre green at Cowley and ripped the tapes with his bare hands from the starting gate! Great days and as you can imagine got the crowd going and adding to the atmosphere! For the life of me I can't recall what caused the outrage? Can only guess that the referee had excluded him for some misdemeanour? Great character and sadly missed.

I never got a copy of his book but I can only guess it was full of anecdotes? Imagine an interview or a Q & A session with the great man?

His book was a great read...

You could certainly see that in those days it really "meant something"...

The big sponsorship of Gulf, so many teams involved, admission costs more reflective of what disposable income people had, and stadiums full of punters, many of them there to see true "sporting superstars" not just "speedway superstars"..

And riders like Wikie, happy to earn in a night what they could earn in a week in their other "real jobs", and could earn that money four or five times each week, and sometimes more...

A much different landscape from today where so many riders of Wilkies level (and much, much lower), are now "fully professional" and septets and meetings get contrived just to provide them with that opportunity, (which obviously then destroys the credibility of the product being served up)...

No major sponsor, no major mainstream coverage, no "household names" who resonate across the sporting spectrum, no league title winners getting good financial rewards and publicity for winning, no tracks struggling to fit everyone in...

As the saying goes..

"We've never had it so good"...!!

NB (Exactly like Poland has today, be interesting to see if they blow it like the UK did)...

Wilkie...

[geoff100]

17 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Remember when "Wilkie" strode across the centre green at Cowley and ripped the tapes with his bare hands from the starting gate! Great days and as you can imagine got the crowd going and adding to the atmosphere! For the life of me I can't recall what caused the outrage? Can only guess that the referee had excluded him for some misdemeanour? Great character and sadly missed.

I never got a copy of his book but I can only guess it was full of anecdotes? Imagine an interview or a Q & A session with the great man?

Wilkie was a childhood hero of mine,but the real hero was his wife who gave her all in looking after alan after his accident ,and yes his book is a fantastic read get yourself a copy and cherish it .