Peterborough Panthers 2023

[Mick Bratley]

9 hours ago, Sir Sidney said:

I think it made it abundantly clear, from the horses mouth, that Chapman made no attempt to change the situation or negotiate a solution. So when Chapman said that nothing could be done he didn't know that,  because, according to Butterfield,  he made no attempt to see if anything could be done

You won’t like this, but I’m going to defend Buster. You have to understand how difficult it has been to race speedway for the last 20 years at the Showground. The owners and latterly AEPG have made things so difficult, step out of line and you have the threat of being kicked off, you have to bow down to them. Any disingenuous comments would have seen the club kicked out mid season. I always felt the Showground enjoyed putting pressure on the club, they liked this master/servant approach. So Buster could never say what he really thought, just as I couldn’t when I was promoter there. His hands were somewhat tied.

[Sir Sidney]

1 minute ago, Mick Bratley said:

You won’t like this, but I’m going to defend Buster. You have to understand how difficult it has been to race speedway for the last 20 years at the Showground. The owners and latterly AEPG have made things so difficult, step out of line and you have the threat of being kicked off, you have to bow down to them. Any disingenuous comments would have seen the club kicked out mid season. I always felt the Showground enjoyed putting pressure on the club, they liked this master/servant approach. So Buster could never say what he really thought, just as I couldn’t when I was promoter there. His hands were somewhat tied.

I'm happy to take your word for it.

[Sir Sidney]

Reflecting on the result overnight it does seem to me that there is a pragmatic solution going forward, if AEPG wants to engage. (and of course, I don't know what the deal is between AEPG and the Agricultural Society)

As things stand, AEPG can't get 650 houses built on the land that includes the stadium. I don't know what the profit margin per house is but let's assume that is a net potential loss of circa £50m.

AEPG could offer to replace the proposed golf driving range at the southern end of the site, which as far as I can see is adjacent to commercial buildings and as far away as possible from its new build housing, with a replacement speedway track and associated buildings, with the proviso that the Council then approves the majority of the remaining new housing.

That gives a solution whereby, albeit with a bit of compromise, all parties can claim a win. 

Of course, they could just bide their time and hope that eventually they get what they want. 

[Mick Bratley]

One quick story. At the World Cup event we held in the early 2000s, we obviously rented the track to stage the event, a sponsor of the event had his banner placed over a banner for the Showground, because they hadn’t sponsored the event. After heat 3 I was called to a crisis at the back of the grandstand, the CEO of the Showground was holding the join of the tv feed (to the world) and said if you don’t take the banner down covering our advert, in five minutes, I’m ending this and everyone can go home. I got a ladder and removed it. 

Also a lot of people don’t realise that even though we paid rent to run Speedway the Showground wouldn’t allow us to hire in and receive payment for food and drink vendors, they took all of that money themselves.

More recently our supporters even had to cut the grass in the car park and spectator areas and do the maintenance on the Grandstand as well, just to operate. They were not good landlords.

[Mick Bratley]

4 minutes ago, Sir Sidney said:

Reflecting on the result overnight it does seem to me that there is a pragmatic solution going forward, if AEPG wants to engage. (and of course, I don't know what the deal is between AEPG and the Agricultural Society)

As things stand, AEPG can't get 650 houses built on the land that includes the stadium. I don't know what the profit margin per house is but let's assume that is a net potential loss of circa £50m.

AEPG could offer to replace the proposed golf driving range at the southern end of the site, which as far as I can see is adjacent to commercial buildings and as far away as possible from its new build housing, with a replacement speedway track and associated buildings, with the proviso that the Council then approves the majority of the remaining new housing.

That gives a solution whereby, albeit with a bit of compromise, all parties can claim a win. 

Of course, they could just bide their time and hope that eventually they get what they want. 

There’s a lot of scenarios now how a satisfactory conclusion can be achieved. We are certainly in a better position now than we were 24 hours ago. It is an amazing achievement from a group of seven blokes who got together to fight this one year ago. Supporters should rightly celebrate this moment, let’s face it they haven’t had a lot to celebrate in the last year, but it’s important to understand we have only won a battle not the war.

[Crump99]

4 minutes ago, Mick Bratley said:

You won’t like this, but I’m going to defend Buster. You have to understand how difficult it has been to race speedway for the last 20 years at the Showground. The owners and latterly AEPG have made things so difficult, step out of line and you have the threat of being kicked off, you have to bow down to them. Any disingenuous comments would have seen the club kicked out mid season. I always felt the Showground enjoyed putting pressure on the club, they liked this master/servant approach. So Buster could never say what he really thought, just as I couldn’t when I was promoter there. His hands were somewhat tied.

I know that you're telling the truth here in that the public face of our excellent working relationship was all a front for the reasons that you state & have told me numerous times.

I do have a problem with the rest though, especially how Buster's position changed from his positive 2022 centre green speech to still then running a 2023 campaign that was a downer and negative from the off. He then gave AEPG their PR coup of the farewell to the showground meeting which, if my memory serves me right, he felt deserved praise because he didn't need to do it? (happily made a shedful though allegedly) We were facing extinction and if he'd stood up to Butterfield who then threw us out for the reasons you say then I might feel differently. I appreciate that it's hard work and his money he's invested & investing but it was all very unsatisfactory IMHO.

[Sir Sidney]

2 minutes ago, Mick Bratley said:

There’s a lot of scenarios now how a satisfactory conclusion can be achieved. We are certainly in a better position now than we were 24 hours ago. It is an amazing achievement from a group of seven blokes who got together to fight this one year ago. Supporters should rightly celebrate this moment, let’s face it they haven’t had a lot to celebrate in the last year, but it’s important to understand we have only won a battle not the war.

Absolutely. 

Watching the live stream it was apparent that sticking to policies and facts gained traction.

Stunts like using schoolchildren to try to emotionally blackmail the Planning Committee are abhorrent and should have no place in such a meeting.  

[Mick Bratley]

19 minutes ago, Sir Sidney said:

Absolutely. 

Watching the live stream it was apparent that sticking to policies and facts gained traction.

Stunts like using schoolchildren to try to emotionally blackmail the Planning Committee are abhorrent and should have no place in such a meeting.  

Oh yes, just when you think he couldn’t get any lower he does. You wouldn’t have seen it on the livestream but when they came in he turned around in his chair and just stared at me and smirked for the whole of their speeches, he wasn’t looking at them he kept looking in my eyes, he was trying to goad me. Of course I ignored it, but hey we had the last laugh.

[BluPanther]

Julie seems reasonably pleased...

 

 

[Youhave2minutes]

1 hour ago, Mick Bratley said:

You won’t like this, but I’m going to defend Buster. You have to understand how difficult it has been to race speedway for the last 20 years at the Showground. The owners and latterly AEPG have made things so difficult, step out of line and you have the threat of being kicked off, you have to bow down to them. Any disingenuous comments would have seen the club kicked out mid season. I always felt the Showground enjoyed putting pressure on the club, they liked this master/servant approach. So Buster could never say what he really thought, just as I couldn’t when I was promoter there. His hands were somewhat tied.

The thing is us supporters really don’t know a lot of this which you have declared which is behind the scenes stuff. Terrible landlords virtually holding the speedway promoters to random.Lets hope there is a resolution to it all and move forward from here on.

Edited Wednesday at 10:15 AM by Youhave2minutes

[Youhave2minutes]

1 hour ago, Sir Sidney said:

Absolutely. 

Watching the live stream it was apparent that sticking to policies and facts gained traction.

Stunts like using schoolchildren to try to emotionally blackmail the Planning Committee are abhorrent and should have no place in such a meeting.  

Clear dirty tactics, and never should have been allowed.

[TTT]

47 minutes ago, BluPanther said:

Julie seems reasonably pleased...

 

 

Very.

Edited Wednesday at 10:45 AM by TTT

[Hamish McRaker]

2 hours ago, Mick Bratley said:

One quick story. At the World Cup event we held in the early 2000s, we obviously rented the track to stage the event, a sponsor of the event had his banner placed over a banner for the Showground, because they hadn’t sponsored the event. After heat 3 I was called to a crisis at the back of the grandstand, the CEO of the Showground was holding the join of the tv feed (to the world) and said if you don’t take the banner down covering our advert, in five minutes, I’m ending this and everyone can go home. I got a ladder and removed it. 

Also a lot of people don’t realise that even though we paid rent to run Speedway the Showground wouldn’t allow us to hire in and receive payment for food and drink vendors, they took all of that money themselves.

More recently our supporters even had to cut the grass in the car park and spectator areas and do the maintenance on the Grandstand as well, just to operate. They were not good landlords.

Good result. But who would/will be the landlords if/when speedway resumed? 

[Mick Bratley]

49 minutes ago, TTT said:

Very.

If Carlsberg made councillors. . . . . 

She has been 100% with us since day one, we cannot thank her enough for her unwavering support.

[Youhave2minutes]

30 minutes ago, Hamish McRaker said:

Good result. But who would/will be the landlords if/when speedway resumed? 

If it’s the original ones prepare for a rocky ride

[NeilWatson]

4 hours ago, Mick Bratley said:

You won’t like this, but I’m going to defend Buster. You have to understand how difficult it has been to race speedway for the last 20 years at the Showground. The owners and latterly AEPG have made things so difficult, step out of line and you have the threat of being kicked off, you have to bow down to them. Any disingenuous comments would have seen the club kicked out mid season. I always felt the Showground enjoyed putting pressure on the club, they liked this master/servant approach. So Buster could never say what he really thought, just as I couldn’t when I was promoter there. His hands were somewhat tied.

Spot on Mick. I  can remember being presented with photographs of tyre-marks on the grass behind the grandstand, followed by an invoice for 'rectification'.

[Youhave2minutes]

8 minutes ago, NeilWatson said:

Spot on Mick. I  can remember being presented with photographs of tyre-marks on the grass behind the grandstand, followed by an invoice for 'rectification'.

Really, how petty.

[BluPanther]

Who is this guy, has he got a finger in the pie ?

 

 

[Bald Bloke]

5 hours ago, Mick Bratley said:

You won’t like this, but I’m going to defend Buster. You have to understand how difficult it has been to race speedway for the last 20 years at the Showground. The owners and latterly AEPG have made things so difficult, step out of line and you have the threat of being kicked off, you have to bow down to them. Any disingenuous comments would have seen the club kicked out mid season. I always felt the Showground enjoyed putting pressure on the club, they liked this master/servant approach. So Buster could never say what he really thought, just as I couldn’t when I was promoter there. His hands were somewhat tied.

Thanks for that. I don't want to start the Buster thing again. But pleasing for me to read. Back to more important business. Great news on campaign front. I did watch yesterday's meeting on Youtube. Your all doing a fantastic job. They certainly didn't expect the massive reaction they have received so far. They've got a fight on their hands for sure.

[mikebv]

18 hours ago, IainB said:

You can't help but think that the best long term solution would be for the local plan to be adhered to and the developers to relocate the Panthers to a protected blank canvas site where there would be no environmental concerns. Everybody gets what they want that way

And, just like with Swindon, the spectre of the houses will always create a possibility of noise complaints in the future should Peterborough stay on that site...

With the council now seemingly "on side" now is the chance to be the "bigger party" and suggest alternatives to prevent more time and money being used up discussing things, changing things, appealling things, and re-appealing things....

Maybe all could "win" now?