Peterborough Panthers 2023

[Big Al]

2 hours ago, Crump99 said:

It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to to draw up a contract handing the club over to the consortium as it is now with clauses about future potential eventualities.

The consortium would have stronger negotiating power and Chapman would have a better chance of that future pension dividend.

If there is no hidden agenda then that certainly is a strange agenda to be following as first choice.

For the statement to have credibility, shouldn't it be backed up by the consortium members each becoming a director of Peterborough Speedway Ltd (or whatever the company is called) and perhaps also become shareholders, even if their shareholdings are initially only very small?

[Crump99]

7 hours ago, Big Al said:

For the statement to have credibility, shouldn't it be backed up by the consortium members each becoming a director of Peterborough Speedway Ltd (or whatever the company is called) and perhaps also become shareholders, even if their shareholdings are initially only very small?

As I said, more questions than answers. However, Bratters and co know what they are trying to achieve and I'm sure that the statement serves their purpose, even though it's far from perfect looking from the outside? It keeps Peterborough Speedway on the front page and gives the screw another turn.

[eric i]

17 hours ago, Hackney said:

Don't claim to know much on this subject but it appears to me that the club is worthless and Chapman is sitting back allowing the consortium to do all the hard work to attempt to re-establish it before attempting to sell it to them.

'would be very happy to open talks over the ownership at an appropriate time'

Chapman has been adamant that speedway is finished at showground but he is happy for the enthusiastic consortium to put the work in to try and save it. If they are successful, Chapman can get a load more money for the sale of the club. 

The complete lack of effort by Chapman to save the club himself and then says things like 'All we want is for the club to return to racing', is shameful.

[Crump99]

11 minutes ago, eric i said:

Chapman has been adamant that speedway is finished at showground

And that messaging basically continues and is still sold which is the disappointing thing, just read the latest BBC items. It's another white flag on the EoES. The main positive of that statement was that it replaced farewell to the EoES as the main news item. It's still a bad look but not half as bad as it was.

[Big Al]

8 hours ago, Crump99 said:

As I said, more questions than answers. However, Bratters and co know what they are trying to achieve and I'm sure that the statement serves their purpose, even though it's far from perfect looking from the outside? It keeps Peterborough Speedway on the front page and gives the screw another turn.

But who does that article make it appear to be the one turning the screw. A masterstroke by the King of smoke and mirrors, one that has blindsided the consortium?

[proud panther]

4 hours ago, eric i said:

'would be very happy to open talks over the ownership at an appropriate time'

Chapman has been adamant that speedway is finished at showground but he is happy for the enthusiastic consortium to put the work in to try and save it. If they are successful, Chapman can get a load more money for the sale of the club. 

The complete lack of effort by Chapman to save the club himself and then says things like 'All we want is for the club to return to racing', is shameful.

Agree 100%

[Crump99]

3 hours ago, Big Al said:

But who does that article make it appear to be the one turning the screw. A masterstroke by the King of smoke and mirrors, one that has blindsided the consortium?

Depends what way you look at it. If you look at the overall picture then it's helpful to the consortium with their objectives. If you've only got pound signs in front of your eyes and no hidden agenda then the statement clearly favours you although it can't be a surprise to the consortium that dealing with this owner is going to be anything but straightforward.

[Najjer]

What exactly does Chapman actually own - what precisely is Peterborough Speedway’s assets? I don’t mean rider value either as that is worthless. Possibly an air fence, some starting tapes and possible track equipment? 

The fact that under British Speedway laws somebody could hold a promotors license and therefore hold potential owners or people willing to run a Peterborough affiliated outfit to ransom absolutely stinks. The same scenario became apparent at Somerset, at Newport in the past and many other places too. 

[Big Al]

9 hours ago, Najjer said:

What exactly does Chapman actually own - what precisely is Peterborough Speedway’s assets? I don’t mean rider value either as that is worthless. Possibly an air fence, some starting tapes and possible track equipment? 

The fact that under British Speedway laws somebody could hold a promotors license and therefore hold potential owners or people willing to run a Peterborough affiliated outfit to ransom absolutely stinks. The same scenario became apparent at Somerset, at Newport in the past and many other places too. 

I think it comes under the heading of "intellectual property" or something similar and possibly includes the name "Peterborough Speedway" and the right to use it.

[Big Al]

9 hours ago, Crump99 said:

Depends what way you look at it. If you look at the overall picture then it's helpful to the consortium with their objectives. If you've only got pound signs in front of your eyes and no hidden agenda then the statement clearly favours you although it can't be a surprise to the consortium that dealing with this owner is going to be anything but straightforward.

I guess it also depends on how the Consortium members regard the statement!

[Big Al]

15 hours ago, eric i said:

'would be very happy to open talks over the ownership at an appropriate time'

Chapman has been adamant that speedway is finished at showground but he is happy for the enthusiastic consortium to put the work in to try and save it. If they are successful, Chapman can get a load more money for the sale of the club. 

The complete lack of effort by Chapman to save the club himself and then says things like 'All we want is for the club to return to racing', is shameful.

Absolutely! Super-clever game plan being followed by Chapman here but nothing usual. Allow an asset (which isn't worth a huge amount anyway and frankly not bothered about either) to dwindle in value by not opposing other parties or circumstances which are bringing about that diminution. The asset then becomes basically dormant, all the while knowing there is another party which desires the asset AND that is prepared to put in the graft required to protect and enhance the asset's value, whilst at the same time not genuinely being interested in selling at its current market value. Then put out public statements of support for the other party's actions! Chapeau, Monsieur Chappo, Chapeau!

[Toady]

10 hours ago, Najjer said:

What exactly does Chapman actually own - what precisely is Peterborough Speedway’s assets? I don’t mean rider value either as that is worthless. Possibly an air fence, some starting tapes and possible track equipment? 

The fact that under British Speedway laws somebody could hold a promotors license and therefore hold potential owners or people willing to run a Peterborough affiliated outfit to ransom absolutely stinks. The same scenario became apparent at Somerset, at Newport in the past and many other places too. 

Swindon for example 

[noaksey]

3 hours ago, Big Al said:

I think it comes under the heading of "intellectual property" or something similar and possibly includes the name "Peterborough Speedway" and the right to use it.

It's the rights to promote speedway in the Peterborough area presumably in essence the licence.

It used to be the case AFAIK that they were protected for 3 years after closure, not sure what the current "rule" is

[OldNutter]

I took it as a challenge that most of us are stumbling around in the dark chasing shadows so I went digging for some basics of what could be happening.  I came across a superb paper published by Manchester City Council that covers the machinations around the early troubles of the actions to get Belle Vue Speedway back on track after some seriously dodgy behaviour nearly took it and the National Speedway Stadium down around 2015-17.  There are some cracking statements from the council towards the end that PCC would be wise to think about in justifying their involvement in the Panthers. The report is here: https://democracy.manchester.gov.uk/Data/Executive/20170308/Agenda/14_Belle_Vue_Speedway.pdf and I urge everybody here to read it. 

Another useful bit information is towards the end of this document:  (Articles of Association of the British Speedway Promoters Ltd  (BPSA) on Companies House).  It is a very long read but is explains how speedway clubs are formed and governed.  It refers to Members and says that they have to be operational Clubs.  They can also be individuals or companies.  Currently, there is still a Peterborough Speedway Ltd company with directors Cheryl and Keith Chapman.  At first site it looks like it was worth an  end of season operational value something between £0 and £10K.  I would guess that Peterborough Speedway Ltd is still accepted as the "Member" for the Panthers registration with Keith Chapman as the club promoter and is the  Peterbough promoter with BPSA and so was responsible to the Speedway Control Bureaux for running the Panthers.  According to the  paragraph 6.1.4 of BSPA rules they can remove a company registration if there is a change of control (eg no longer Buster &/or Cheryl in our case)  so anyone trying to keep running the club cannot just take control of the company and keep the registration.   Looking at what happened in the Manchester case maybe a new company such as Peterborough Speedway (2024) Ltd could apply to BPSA to be the authorised member for the future.

Looking at the Manchester document, the numbers are eye watering and nobody in their right mind would try running a speedway team from scratch without the protection given by forming a limited company, some deep pockets and plenty of business experience to go with their love of the sport.

[Crump99]

1 hour ago, OldNutter said:

I took it as a challenge that most of us are stumbling around in the dark chasing shadows so I went digging for some basics of what could be happening.  I came across a superb paper published by Manchester City Council that covers the machinations around the early troubles of the actions to get Belle Vue Speedway back on track after some seriously dodgy behaviour nearly took it and the National Speedway Stadium down around 2015-17.  There are some cracking statements from the council towards the end that PCC would be wise to think about in justifying their involvement in the Panthers. The report is here: https://democracy.manchester.gov.uk/Data/Executive/20170308/Agenda/14_Belle_Vue_Speedway.pdf and I urge everybody here to read it. 

Another useful bit information is towards the end of this document:  (Articles of Association of the British Speedway Promoters Ltd  (BPSA) on Companies House).  It is a very long read but is explains how speedway clubs are formed and governed.  It refers to Members and says that they have to be operational Clubs.  They can also be individuals or companies.  Currently, there is still a Peterborough Speedway Ltd company with directors Cheryl and Keith Chapman.  At first site it looks like it was worth an  end of season operational value something between £0 and £10K.  I would guess that Peterborough Speedway Ltd is still accepted as the "Member" for the Panthers registration with Keith Chapman as the club promoter and is the  Peterbough promoter with BPSA and so was responsible to the Speedway Control Bureaux for running the Panthers.  According to the  paragraph 6.1.4 of BSPA rules they can remove a company registration if there is a change of control (eg no longer Buster &/or Cheryl in our case)  so anyone trying to keep running the club cannot just take control of the company and keep the registration.   Looking at what happened in the Manchester case maybe a new company such as Peterborough Speedway (2024) Ltd could apply to BPSA to be the authorised member for the future.

Looking at the Manchester document, the numbers are eye watering and nobody in their right mind would try running a speedway team from scratch without the protection given by forming a limited company, some deep pockets and plenty of business experience to go with their love of the sport.

Although you've already replied to the planning applications (at least I think that you have) you can add additional comments if you think any of that is relevant to those AEPG documents or may make PCC think, in our favour that is!

Edited December 20, 2023 by Crump99

[OldNutter]

2 hours ago, Crump99 said:

Although you've already replied to the planning applications (at least I think that you have) you can add additional comments if you think any of that is relevant to those AEPG documents or may make PCC think, in our favour that is! 

Done direct

[FromBendThree]

12 hours ago, Crump99 said:

Although you've already replied to the planning applications (at least I think that you have) you can add additional comments if you think any of that is relevant to those AEPG documents or may make PCC think, in our favour that is!

The planning process only helps up to a point. AEPG can keep Panthers out of Showground even if their applications fail. Same could happen at Coventry. Speedway needs land owner to want speedway. Eastbourne stadium still there but owners have said no to  speedway and just let Stox in.. As is their right.

[OldNutter]

The owner of Brafield (Northampton) changed the old tarmac track to a shaleway a few years ago and there has been a lot of development done recently at Brafield to improve it so that it could hold the BRISCA World Championship in September and it made a great job of it and it also now has lighting.  Firstly, would transferring Peterborough to Northampton be a good idea and secondly, would it be possible or wanted by the owner.  The facility at Brafield is well away from any houses, so there should be no problems with neighbours.  Just a thought as it is on the east side of Northampton and not too far from Peterborough and there is currently no speedway within an hour of Brafield.  Obviously not ideal, but at least we would have a team in this area even if this is only a Plan B.

[Flappy]

5 hours ago, FromBendThree said:

The planning process only helps up to a point. AEPG can keep Panthers out of Showground even if their applications fail. Same could happen at Coventry. Speedway needs land owner to want speedway. Eastbourne stadium still there but owners have said no to  speedway and just let Stox in.. As is their right.

Correct however IP30 and IP36 state if so they'll need to find an alternative venue. 

I know which one is cheaper 

[bigcatdiary]

6 hours ago, FromBendThree said:

The planning process only helps up to a point. AEPG can keep Panthers out of Showground even if their applications fail. Same could happen at Coventry. Speedway needs land owner to want speedway. Eastbourne stadium still there but owners have said no to  speedway and just let Stox in.. As is their right.

If the application fails then AEPG lose out as well as their plans don’t get approved and their debts keep getting bigger, at some point concessions are likely to have to be made to get the planning applications passed.

AEPG and the speedway club need to sit round a table and sort it out to the benefit of both, at the moment AEPG seem unwilling to talk or compromise but that could change of course.