Peterborough Panthers 2023

[yaxley panther]

1 hour ago, chrismorton said:

It's a no win for Panthers fans..pay the crooked owner who wants us gone one more time or don't go to the potential last ever Peterborough meeting...what to do?

I think the majority of supporters last meeting was against Kings Lynn , I think they said there farewell then   

[Hackney]

1 hour ago, chrismorton said:

It's a no win for Panthers fans..pay the crooked owner who wants us gone one more time or don't go to the potential last ever Peterborough meeting...what to do?

Would prefer my final memory to be the meeting against KL, did the track walk and my grandson got some souvenirs.

Proper competitive match, the current line up for the farewell just gives Buster a final payday and a big laugh whilst counting the cash.

[Crump99]

 

7 hours ago, chrismorton said:

It's a no win for Panthers fans. Pay the crooked owner who wants us gone one more time or don't go to the potential last ever Peterborough meeting...what to do?

Don't play the last ever game that AEPG, Chapman & some supporters are pushing is my suggestion. With planning up in the air, nothing is going to happen at the EoES for years sufficient to stop Peterborough Speedway running for several seasons at the very least. Also, with a local plan review under way and Peterborough City Council under increasing pressure, the only thing to say farewell to is 2023 and Chapman's tenure as he's made it clear that he does not want to take Panthers forward.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Crump99

[Hackney]

1 hour ago, Crump99 said:

 

Don't play the last ever game that AEPG, Chapman & some supporters are pushing is my suggestion. With planning up in the air, nothing going to happen at the EoES for years sufficient to stop Peterborough Speedway running for several seasons at the very least. Also with a local plan review under way and Peterborough City Council under increasing pressure, the only thing to say farewell to is 2023 and Chapman's tenure as he's made it clear that he does not want to take Panthers forward.

Agree, once that farewell meeting is complete that's us admitting defeat.

Who is driving the farewell meeting the co promoter at KL !! So you know where the money is going.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Hackney

[OldNutter]

I think I may have found the key word to describe the current position.  The word is "LEASE"

As I understand it from what little is in the public domain, AEPG has been granted a lease to own the showground for an agreed exchange of gold and until an agreed date when theoretically the ownership reverts to the farmers decendants.  That money for the lease has been borrowed from somewhere on surety that AEPG will pay it back when the planning application succeeds.  The planning succeeding is absolutely vital to this money-making exercise because on that day, the land price will increase from being farmland fit for farming to development land that has a set of agreed planning approvals.  That value change is astronomical.  However, that will only actually become "money" rather than "value" when somebody buys the LEASE off AEPG at the new very much higher rate that development land commands rather than farming land (expect someone like Bellway (- known round here as Bojjit and Floggit) to buy AEPG out.  AEPG will then melt back to the Home Counties and probably never be seen again once the money has been extracted from the company and this legal money making scheme closes and the building company get building and flogging to recover the money they will have given to AEPG in exchange for the LEASE with planning consent.

Looking at that word again, the speedway equipment/grandstand etc (probably not the air fence because that is a relatively new addition and is not stuck down )will have been sitting there as a result of an agreement with whoever owns the club whereby they have LEASED the site on an agreement and cost basis until the LEASE expires.  That LEASE expiry date is the point at which the club no longer has any right to sit on that bit of land and could, in theory allow it all to be owned by AEPG because while they have a valid LEASE they effectively own the land for the duration of their LEASE with the farmers..  That scenario would certainly explain the timing and the language over the past year or so.

Stage 1 of the original plan was when AEPG bought the showground LEASE and tried to shut the speedway down in the early summer to make it non-viable before going for the planning application.  An exchange of money probably occurred to AEPG when we began hearing that due to some "friendly talking" (AKA some more dosh), the LEASE was extended to a date in October not long after next Saturday making it possible to get to the end of this season.  That could explain why everything was "must end - that was the date at the end of the LEASE Extension.  Clearly, LEASES and LEASE Extensions for car storage are much more cost-effective than speedway and the cost of extending the speedway LEASE was set too high for the club to survive.  It is not beyond possibility because of this strange behaviour when the LEASES for the grandstand and track etc end that the whole lot could probably be owned by AEPG when the LEASE on the speedway site ends next week!!! And as long as the stuff on the land is not listed or something similar, if you own something you can do more or less anything with it. (as long as you take the relevant steps to stop any asbestos being mishandled)   A grim scenario, but completely legal and almost certain.  Paperwork probably already completed.

The ending of the speedway club LEASE held by the whoever owns the club with whoever owns the showground is really the end of speedway for the foreseeable future at least and is really goodbye to the showground.

Nobody wanting to do put their money and heart where their mouth is, no money, no LEASE extension, NO SPEEDWAY on the showground. A sad end to be effectively created from two words - GREED and LEASES.

[Crump99]

12 hours ago, OldNutter said:

It is not beyond possibility because of this strange behaviour when the LEASES for the grandstand and track etc end that the whole lot could probably be owned by AEPG when the LEASE on the speedway site ends next week!!! And as long as the stuff on the land is not listed or something similar, if you own something you can do more or less anything with it. (as long as you take the relevant steps to stop any asbestos being mishandled)   A grim scenario, but completely legal and almost certain.  Paperwork probably already completed.

Would this muddy the waters?

"A planning Article 4 restriction was submitted to the council on Thursday 28/09 by the Parish Council"

I assume that that is related to the below objection?

Orton Waterville Parish Council OBJECTS to this planning application 23/00400/OUT and 23/00412/OUT, in its current format for the following material observations:

Speedway - The proposed loss of the Speedway track and arena is contrary to both the local plan, Paragraphs LP30, LP36 and to Paragraph 99(c) of the National Planning Policy Framework (2021)”. Ashes of the deceased have been scattered within the Speedway arena by a Chaplain over a number of years. It is noted that a similar planning application (Ref R18/0186) was submitted in January 2018 by a Developer for residential dwellings on the site where Coventry Bees Speedway arena is located. The application was rejected by Rugby Borough Council in November 2022 on the grounds “The development would result in the loss of a sporting facility that has both local and national significance and although an alternative sporting provision is proposed there is not a clearly identified need for the alternative sporting provision and therefore it is considered that the proposed benefits of the new facility do not clearly outweigh the loss of the stadium. The proposal would therefore be contrary to Policy HS4(C) of the Local Plan (2019), Policy LF1 of the Brandon and Bretford Neighbourhood Development Plan (2019) and Paragraph 99(c) of the National Planning Policy Framework (2021).

Edited October 3, 2023 by Crump99

[arnieg]

30 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

Would this muddy the waters?

"A planning Article 4 restriction was submitted to the council on Thursday 28/09 by the Parish Council"

Orton Waterville Parish Council OBJECTS to this planning application 23/00400/OUT and 23/00412/OUT, in its current format for the following material observations:

Speedway - The proposed loss of the Speedway track and arena is contrary to both the local plan, Paragraphs LP30, LP36 and to Paragraph 99(c) of the National Planning Policy Framework (2021)”. Ashes of the deceased have been scattered within the Speedway arena by a Chaplain over a number of years. It is noted that a similar planning application (Ref R18/0186) was submitted in January 2018 by a Developer for residential dwellings on the site where Coventry Bees Speedway arena is located. The application was rejected by Rugby Borough Council in November 2022 on the grounds “The development would result in the loss of a sporting facility that has both local and national significance and although an alternative sporting provision is proposed there is not a clearly identified need for the alternative sporting provision and therefore it is considered that the proposed benefits of the new facility do not clearly outweigh the loss of the stadium. The proposal would therefore be contrary to Policy HS4(C) of the Local Plan (2019), Policy LF1 of the Brandon and Bretford Neighbourhood Development Plan (2019) and Paragraph 99(c) of the National Planning Policy Framework (2021).

Very much a positive development

[Crump99]

2 hours ago, OldNutter said:

and almost certain.  Paperwork probably already completed.

I suspect that you're right. I wonder how watertight it is because I doubt that PCC expected so much flak?

This was in the local press fact file explaining the project and timeline:

Peterborough Panthers speedway team was informed in 2022 (not what Chapman said on the mic?) that the 2023 season would sadly have to be their last in the Showground grandstand, as that area is expected to be under different ownership by the time the 2024 Speedway season begins.

Sale of the land is expected to be approved by Spring 2024, again subject to planning approval.

"Operators so-far have not been named" - they're going to be popular when/if known 

 

[Flappy]

On 10/1/2023 at 9:12 AM, TTT said:

After consideration I won't be going even if it's a good line-up.

I just can't bring myself to line Buster's pockets one last time after the way he's treated us, I just don't like the bloke.

Whether we come to tapes next year or not, I have faith that this won't be the last time we see Panthers on track because we've got a team fighting for us behind the scenes and that team consists of a a group of people who actually love the club unlike Buster.

This 

[Mick Bratley]

20 hours ago, OldNutter said:

I think I may have found the key word to describe the current position.  The word is "LEASE"

As I understand it from what little is in the public domain, AEPG has been granted a lease to own the showground for an agreed exchange of gold and until an agreed date when theoretically the ownership reverts to the farmers decendants.  That money for the lease has been borrowed from somewhere on surety that AEPG will pay it back when the planning application succeeds.  The planning succeeding is absolutely vital to this money-making exercise because on that day, the land price will increase from being farmland fit for farming to development land that has a set of agreed planning approvals.  That value change is astronomical.  However, that will only actually become "money" rather than "value" when somebody buys the LEASE off AEPG at the new very much higher rate that development land commands rather than farming land (expect someone like Bellway (- known round here as Bojjit and Floggit) to buy AEPG out.  AEPG will then melt back to the Home Counties and probably never be seen again once the money has been extracted from the company and this legal money making scheme closes and the building company get building and flogging to recover the money they will have given to AEPG in exchange for the LEASE with planning consent.

Looking at that word again, the speedway equipment/grandstand etc (probably not the air fence because that is a relatively new addition and is not stuck down )will have been sitting there as a result of an agreement with whoever owns the club whereby they have LEASED the site on an agreement and cost basis until the LEASE expires.  That LEASE expiry date is the point at which the club no longer has any right to sit on that bit of land and could, in theory allow it all to be owned by AEPG because while they have a valid LEASE they effectively own the land for the duration of their LEASE with the farmers..  That scenario would certainly explain the timing and the language over the past year or so.

Stage 1 of the original plan was when AEPG bought the showground LEASE and tried to shut the speedway down in the early summer to make it non-viable before going for the planning application.  An exchange of money probably occurred to AEPG when we began hearing that due to some "friendly talking" (AKA some more dosh), the LEASE was extended to a date in October not long after next Saturday making it possible to get to the end of this season.  That could explain why everything was "must end - that was the date at the end of the LEASE Extension.  Clearly, LEASES and LEASE Extensions for car storage are much more cost-effective than speedway and the cost of extending the speedway LEASE was set too high for the club to survive.  It is not beyond possibility because of this strange behaviour when the LEASES for the grandstand and track etc end that the whole lot could probably be owned by AEPG when the LEASE on the speedway site ends next week!!! And as long as the stuff on the land is not listed or something similar, if you own something you can do more or less anything with it. (as long as you take the relevant steps to stop any asbestos being mishandled)   A grim scenario, but completely legal and almost certain.  Paperwork probably already completed.

The ending of the speedway club LEASE held by the whoever owns the club with whoever owns the showground is really the end of speedway for the foreseeable future at least and is really goodbye to the showground.

Nobody wanting to do put their money and heart where their mouth is, no money, no LEASE extension, NO SPEEDWAY on the showground. A sad end to be effectively created from two words - GREED and LEASES.

You are not quite correct in your assumption.

AEPG are ‘agents’ for the East of England Agricultural Society (EoEAS) who own most of the land on the Showground, some of the land is owned by Milton Estates (most of which is beside the A1) which EoEAS lease from them. AEPG have produced (what’s laughing called) a master plan for development of the Showground. If and (hopefully not) planning is approved, AEPG will sell off parcels of land (on behalf of EoEAS) to developers, they will take a cut of the sale, my guess is 70/30, the 70 going to the EoEAS. So in summary AEPG have not leased the Showground, they do not own it, they are agents or tenants who seem to be able to do what they like in order to get this development completed for EoEAS.

[Crump99]

2 hours ago, Mick Bratley said:

You are not quite correct in your assumption.

AEPG are ‘agents’ for the East of England Agricultural Society (EoEAS) who own most of the land on the Showground, some of the land is owned by Milton Estates (most of which is beside the A1) which EoEAS lease from them. AEPG have produced (what’s laughing called) a master plan for development of the Showground. If and (hopefully not) planning is approved, AEPG will sell off parcels of land (on behalf of EoEAS) to developers, they will take a cut of the sale, my guess is 70/30, the 70 going to the EoEAS. So in summary AEPG have not leased the Showground, they do not own it, they are agents or tenants who seem to be able to do what they like in order to get this development completed for EoEAS.

He probably picked up the word from my post and I was just repeating what the EEAS CEO said: "AEPG currently occupy and operate the site under a lease"

[OldNutter]

Thanks Both. Trying to be a bit more accurate and only using information in the public domain, the operating company,  East of England Showground Services Ltd changed hands between 2021 and 2023.  There are now two directors, Ashley Butterfield and Lee Sharp.  Lee Sharp became a director on  24 November 2021 and AB became the other director on  21 April 2023.  That company pays £300K per year to the Agricultural Society for the Showground.  The reason for that payment is not fully visible, but from the wording for it, is almost certainly ground rent on a Lease.

The Agricultural Society has also openly agreed to sell the Arena and other showground buildings (presumably mainly referring to the buildings we would have seen around the track) for £2.75m by 2024 subject to successful planning consent.

Finally for completeness, there are three single director companies clustered around the main single director AEPG company.  Those companies are:

Asset Earning Power Land (Aepl) Ltd
Asset Earning Power Residential (Aepr) Ltd
Asset Earning Power Arena (Aepa) Ltd

All have a single director - Ashley Butterfield.

East of England Showground Services Ltd has Ashley Butterfield and a Lee Sharp as directors

This type of multi-company behaviour is commonplace in these planning-to-building  uplift schemes.  We have frequently seen oddball named single use companies that are presumably used for perfectly legal actions to do with legal, PR and tax activities.  What we have also seen is the same sort of vague ludicrous promises that always evaporate as the development progresses to reality over the many years it takes to complete them.  I note AB has described this development as "unique", much like all of the others were at the same early stage.

[Crump99]

8 hours ago, OldNutter said:

What we have also seen is the same sort of vague ludicrous promises that always evaporate as the development progresses to reality over the many years it takes to complete them.  I note AB has described this development as "unique", much like all of the others were at the same early stage.

Exactly!

Anyone who thinks that in a decade's time the city of Peterborough will have a concrete development that is better than the Existing Culture, Leisure, Tourism and Community Facility that the EEAS, AEPG & PCC hope to destroy really do need to have a look at themselves.

It's no surprise that we keep reading things like: An AEPG spokesperson said: “These are artist impressions, albeit they are based on the AEPG vision of the overall development’s look and feel.

Artist impressions, vision, look and feel - usual meaningless dross!

 

[JoeW436]

https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/sport/other-sport/peterborough-panthers-title-winner-to-compete-in-farewell-meeting-and-two-gb-riders-have-also-confirmed-their-attendance-4358474
 

All Busters mates so far, I’ll give this one a miss I think.

[Flappy]

1 hour ago, JoeW436 said:

https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/sport/other-sport/peterborough-panthers-title-winner-to-compete-in-farewell-meeting-and-two-gb-riders-have-also-confirmed-their-attendance-4358474
 

All Busters mates so far, I’ll give this one a miss I think.

It's a pathetic field for a meeting line this.  With all due respect what has Steve Worrall and Tom Brennan got to do with this meeting. 

[Speedtiger]

32 minutes ago, Flappy said:

It's a pathetic field for a meeting line this.  With all due respect what has Steve Worrall and Tom Brennan got to do with this meeting. 

Oh come on guys that’s a tad negative, there’s a wheely competition and face painting and lots of other circus attractions put on by the king of promoters the Clown Chapman…wishing him a fond farewell.££££

[TTT]

Buster clearly doesn't care about the club hence why we'll have a budget line-up, Buster just wants gullible punters to chip in with the 2024 KL Stars budget.

Keep the faith in our team behind the scenes that's working hard, Even if we have to sit 2024 out, It's worth taking one step back to take two steps forward in the future if it means we don't have to put up with Buster anymore.

[Crump99]

1 hour ago, TTT said:

Buster clearly doesn't care about the club hence why we'll have a budget line-up, Buster just wants gullible punters to chip in with the 2024 KL Stars budget.

Keep the faith in our team behind the scenes that's working hard, Even if we have to sit 2024 out, It's worth taking one step back to take two steps forward in the future if it means we don't have to put up with Buster anymore.

Hope they are not that negative. If they are then I wish they'd say. I could then just give up and concentrate on an alternative interest.

[scoobydoo]

2 hours ago, Speedtiger said:

Oh come on guys that’s a tad negative, there’s a wheely competition and face painting and lots of other circus attractions put on by the king of promoters the Clown Chapman…wishing him a fond farewell.££££

Theres a track, walk for anyone who wants to have a last nostalgic stroll,   but im expecting him to charge for that as well , or maybe its free if everyone brings a every little helps bag for life to fill with clay for him to transport along the A47

[JoeW436]

https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/people/new-sponsor-for-peterboroughs-great-eastern-run-4358944
 

The brown envelopes have started their journeys, makes you feel sick.