Peterborough Panthers 2023

[Crump99]

6 hours ago, StarBoy said:

They already have, haven't they? Seen it quoted in this thread somewhere of £7k rent per meeting.

It's a bit mixed. We are told that that AEPG wouldn't negotiate on Panthers 2024 and beyond yet they say that that they have negotiated with the club's owner?

Because we're basically a stand-alone operation now at the EoES and the site is now underused and badly maintained, AEPG/EEAS (whoever pays the bills?) are allegedly not prepared to subsidise this existing culture, leisure, tourism and community heritage asset, if they ever did,  and allegedly they want to charge a break even rent (which is where the 7k figure came from, although whether accurate, who knows?) for Peterborough Speedway which one assumes is a fantasy figure the club couldn't entertain?

AEPG would hope IMO that that then helps them in some way to agree with LP30 k. The facility is demonstrably no longer fit for purpose and the site is not viable to be redeveloped for a new community facility;

Edited September 6, 2023 by Crump99

[Flappy]

59 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

It's a bit mixed. We are told that that AEPG wouldn't negotiate on Panthers 2024 and beyond yet they say that that they have negotiated with the club's owner?

Because we're basically a stand-alone operation now at the EoES and the site is now underused and badly maintained. AEPG/EEAS (whoever pays the bills?) are allegedly not prepared to subsidise this existing culture, leisure, tourism and community heritage asset, if they ever did,  and allegedly they want to charge a break even rent (which is where the 7k figure came from, although whether accurate, who knows?) for Peterborough Speedway which one assumes is a fantasy figure the club couldn't entertain?

AEPG would hope IMO that that then helps them in some way to agree with LP30 k. The facility is demonstrably no longer fit for purpose and the site is not viable to be redeveloped for a new community facility;

Exactly there's no denying we need a new venue but there's no reason we can't be there for at least another 2 seasons 

[Chris116]

I hope the local fire service is very close as I can foresee a series of unexplained fires in the future!

[Crump99]

1 hour ago, Flappy said:

Exactly there's no denying we need a new venue but there's no reason we can't be there for at least another 2 seasons 

And more:

The first AEPG planning document outlines the construction of up to 650 homes, ie: Land A (part of the current local plan). The Peterborough Local Plan for 2016-2036 says that 650 homes on the Showground is an acceptable number; though building works might take a decade and this is subject to LP36 & LP30

And that's before their 850 AEPG application that appears nowhere, totally confuses the issue and would have a similar timescale at best.

The current local plan, which was adopted in 2019, covers development in Peterborough up until 2036. However, national policy is for this to be updated every five years and that review in now underway by PCC. The process would take approximately three years with several public consultations included and that's the only time that we should see that 850 application. I see no reason why Peterborough Speedway cannot continue at the EoES for many seasons, or indeed permanently (now there's a curveball!).

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Crump99

[Deano]

Is there anyway the speedway facility could be protected by fans on a voluntary basis? While awaiting planning of the EOS, and while lying dormant.
 

It’s always speedway fans that suffer in these instances. Somehow (even when they are legally obliged to), we can’t expect the developers to protect it.

Tell the developers fans can wait the long game too if needed.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Deano

[DazS]

1 hour ago, Chris116 said:

I hope the local fire service is very close as I can foresee a series of unexplained fires in the future!

been a lot of them lately, i think its global warming. 

[Crump99]

1 hour ago, Deano said:

Is there anyway the speedway facility could be protected by fans on a voluntary basis? While awaiting planning of the EOS, and while lying dormant.
 

It’s always speedway fans that suffer in these instances. Somehow (even when they are legally obliged to), we can’t expect the developers to protect it.

Tell the developers fans can wait the long game too if needed.

Mick Bratley was looking at the possibility of that sort of protection should common sense not prevail for Panthers 2024. I don't know what mechanisms he was looking at or if any progress was made but basically yes it was considered.

[OldNutter]

Been ferreting again.  Companies House has a lot of useful information, all of which is in the public domain and can be identified,repeated and understood!

The whole story has been described in the 2022 Annual Report of the Charity/company known as the "East of England Agricultural Society" including the family trees of the whole place and what money has been allocated (not to be spent until the end of Phase One of the actual development).  Most relevant is that the report does not mention the Speedway anywhere in it, including the report on the B/S that was put to the council when describing the wonderland this change as going to invent.  I think they made an off-the-cuff remark to the council that the only comments they have had about the speedway were complaining about the noise.  OK so it is a bit noisy for around 15 minutes every other week for about 6 months of the year, but I suspect that could be a bit of an issue for anyone who only  hears a golf ball being displaced a few yards at a time. Many years ago, the local farmers cooperative charity  devised a company known as "East of England Showground Services Ltd" who actually managed the day-to-day Showground events and passed their profits to the charity for good charitable uses(Not owned by the farmers now, but two familiar names crop up yet again now)..  The charity lists a whole load of events that were held at the showground in 2022, but again do not mention the speedway at all again.  Bottom line is that anyone reading these various documents and going to any AEPG presentations would have no idea at all that the speedway even existed.  AEPG is apparently the overall holding company now (a company with one director, one £1 share and £1 of assets).  AEPG is listed by the Services company as the owner of that company and it looks as though the land owner is still the charity until that Phase One completion.  Apparently that constitutes a viable  operation!  Like I said, all information that is in the Public Domain.

When we had a similar planning situation round here, our long-time councillors were ousted and replaced with independents.  These councillors took the residents side in the planning committee meeting that was meant to rubber stamp the plan and the developers had to go back and lick their wounds and either give up and try somewhere else for their future income, or appeal - we await the next  instalment of this particular fight.  The new councillors pointed out to us that it was perfectly legitimate that as well as making all the consultation comments, we should write to each member of the planning committee detailing our concerns just before the actual planning approval committee meeting - it is called lobbying..  Obviously non-Peterborough speedway supporters cannot do this, but there are plenty by the looks of the planning portal.

Edited September 6, 2023 by OldNutter
Spelling of viable was wrong

[Deano]

1 hour ago, Crump99 said:

Mick Bratley was looking at the possibility of that sort of protection should common sense not prevail for Panthers 2024. I don't know what mechanisms he was looking at or if any progress was made but basically yes it was considered.

Nice one!

It really needs to be taken seriously. We know through historical references how these companies get what they want eventually.

[Mick Bratley]

A big massive THANK YOU to all Speedway Supporters across the U.K. who have taken time out to put comments and/or objections to the development proposals of the East of England Showground that will ultimately see the end of Peterborough Speedway, you are top people and clearly love your sport!

However we need more comments, we need a ground swell of support from anyone, anywhere. Already the number of comments/objections has raised eyebrows, please if you can, leave your comments. Here’s how to do it:

Search Google ‘Peterborough City Council Planning Applications’ 

Search the planning register ‘Showground’ 

You will see the two applications references are: 23/00400/OUT and 23/00412OUT click on either and/or both 

Click on documents

Click on associated documents 

You will then see the comments/objections that have been already left there are 25 to a page. Go down the different page numbers to eventually find the planning application detail.

To make a comment/objection go back to the page where the associated documents link was and click the comments link. 

Leave your comments/objections and press submit.

Anyone can comment/object. You can comment on both applications.

Your support is so appreciated.

 

[pauljb]

8 hours ago, Chris116 said:

I hope the local fire service is very close as I can foresee a series of unexplained fires in the future!

And incursions by our old friends from the travelling community 

[OldNutter]

I am struggling with my adding up here.  I believe that there are very few people within a hundred mile radius of the EoS that do not know of it and most have probably visited it for one of the hugely varied events that used to be run there over the past 70+ years.  The Peterborough Local Plan has a specific section  devoted to it because the Showground is (was) synonymous with Peterborough.  The speedway has been an important part in that wide knowledge.  So... rather than concentrate on just the loss of speedway should the whole Showground be classed as a heritage asset and should the withdrawing of the bookings be regarded as wilful neglect of this whole important heritage site in direct contradiction of both the Local Plan and the NNPF?  I fail to understand why the Showground Society would completely ignore the existence of the Speedway site in their strategic plans  on the balance sheet - unless the advice given to them by the purveyors of the fictional Shangrlila dream of free money for ever from the OTT housing and having anything still operating on the site would be a risk to the dream (and the mortgage now on it)

Perhaps we also need a Plan B before the fires start.  Running the speedway would only mean using that corner we have been having to use this year since the old entrance and hard-standing via the Arena was fenced off.  We could have the grass between the trees as parking (I seem to remember using that a few years ago).  The track is pretty well bounded already and a fence along the south side of the access from Gate 3 for EoS assets to the track would bound that past the pits.  The showground works area is there as well and could stay where it is to house the maintenance vehicles.  We would not need majority of the showground, so cost should not be an issue and a sympathetic project plan leaving that area free would make it possible to get a few more years speedway there.  After all, we know from experience elsewhere that we are talking about upwards of 10 years before the whole site would be concrete.  Clearly there would be fairly swift building at the start so that the Phase One payment date can be met but once the progress is constrained by the rate at which they are sold governs progress, the rate of building will depend on the market, and that is not looking very rosy at the moment!  Speedway could be seen as the good guys and it might even mean that doing it properly will not appeal to the Shangrila dreamers and mortgage holders as well and they will go somewhere else!

If the M4 Shangrila gang want to try somewhere else all together, the Showground complete with the speedway could be re-energised and if someone with a bit of local history behind them wanted to build a reasonable few houses to satisfy the Local Plan, say 350 houses on the southerly area, the Arena and bits would act as a good sound screen if that was felt necessary. The site, including the Arena, would then house both inside and outside leisure that would include the second best supported open air leisure facility in Peterborough sports behind Posh.  I am sure that would not be as divisive as this current soul-less out-of-town cut, paste and plonk plan currently on the table.

[Mick Bratley]

5 hours ago, OldNutter said:

I am struggling with my adding up here.  I believe that there are very few people within a hundred mile radius of the EoS that do not know of it and most have probably visited it for one of the hugely varied events that used to be run there over the past 70+ years.  The Peterborough Local Plan has a specific section  devoted to it because the Showground is (was) synonymous with Peterborough.  The speedway has been an important part in that wide knowledge.  So... rather than concentrate on just the loss of speedway should the whole Showground be classed as a heritage asset and should the withdrawing of the bookings be regarded as wilful neglect of this whole important heritage site in direct contradiction of both the Local Plan and the NNPF?  I fail to understand why the Showground Society would completely ignore the existence of the Speedway site in their strategic plans  on the balance sheet - unless the advice given to them by the purveyors of the fictional Shangrlila dream of free money for ever from the OTT housing and having anything still operating on the site would be a risk to the dream (and the mortgage now on it)

Perhaps we also need a Plan B before the fires start.  Running the speedway would only mean using that corner we have been having to use this year since the old entrance and hard-standing via the Arena was fenced off.  We could have the grass between the trees as parking (I seem to remember using that a few years ago).  The track is pretty well bounded already and a fence along the south side of the access from Gate 3 for EoS assets to the track would bound that past the pits.  The showground works area is there as well and could stay where it is to house the maintenance vehicles.  We would not need majority of the showground, so cost should not be an issue and a sympathetic project plan leaving that area free would make it possible to get a few more years speedway there.  After all, we know from experience elsewhere that we are talking about upwards of 10 years before the whole site would be concrete.  Clearly there would be fairly swift building at the start so that the Phase One payment date can be met but once the progress is constrained by the rate at which they are sold governs progress, the rate of building will depend on the market, and that is not looking very rosy at the moment!  Speedway could be seen as the good guys and it might even mean that doing it properly will not appeal to the Shangrila dreamers and mortgage holders as well and they will go somewhere else!

If the M4 Shangrila gang want to try somewhere else all together, the Showground complete with the speedway could be re-energised and if someone with a bit of local history behind them wanted to build a reasonable few houses to satisfy the Local Plan, say 350 houses on the southerly area, the Arena and bits would act as a good sound screen if that was felt necessary. The site, including the Arena, would then house both inside and outside leisure that would include the second best supported open air leisure facility in Peterborough sports behind Posh.  I am sure that would not be as divisive as this current soul-less out-of-town cut, paste and plonk plan currently on the table.

The developers could do themselves a huge favour and get some good PR if they allowed the Speedway to stay in situ for 3 years and give the club a proper amount of time to relocate which of course if you read the local plan the developers should pay for. They could also do themselves an even bigger favour by changing their plans to incorporate the Speedway track and Grandstand. A brick will not get laid on the site for at least 5 years. The developers are currently getting pelters from every angle, there isn’t any positivity from anywhere about this development, surely they weren’t naive enough to think this development wouldn’t become a problem, a problem that gets bigger with every passing day,? Perhaps they were naive, they haven’t exactly got a track record of developing a site of the magnitude of the Showground. I can only see difficult days ahead for AEPG.

[GeneralMelchett]

On 9/5/2023 at 6:33 PM, Mick Bratley said:

Here’s where to go and how to make a comment:

 

To read and comment/object on AEPGs Showground planning applications, the following is how to do it. 

Search Google ‘Peterborough City Council Planning Applications’

Search the planning register ‘Showground’

You will see the two applications references are: 23/00400/OUT and 23/00412OUT click on either and/or both 

Click on documents

Click on associated documents 

You will then see the comments/objections that have been already left there are 25 to a page. Go down the different page numbers to eventually find the planning application detail.

To make a comment/objection go back to the page where the associated documents link was and click the comments link.

Leave your comments/objections and press submit. 

Anyone can comment/object. You can comment on both applications. Please take time out to make a comment.

 

263 objections - only 3 in favour as of 11.20 tonight

Edited September 7, 2023 by GeneralMelchett

[Mick Bratley]

22 minutes ago, GeneralMelchett said:

263 objections - only 3 in favour as of 11.20 tonight

There’s two planning applications, a total of almost 450 objections submitted and of those in favour I think 2 are user error.

[Crump99]

11 hours ago, Mick Bratley said:

The developers could do themselves a huge favour and get some good PR if they allowed the Speedway to stay in situ for 3 years and give the club a proper amount of time to relocate which of course if you read the local plan the developers should pay for. They could also do themselves an even bigger favour by changing their plans to incorporate the Speedway track and Grandstand. A brick will not get laid on the site for at least 5 years. The developers are currently getting pelters from every angle, there isn’t any positivity from anywhere about this development, surely they weren’t naive enough to think this development wouldn’t become a problem, a problem that gets bigger with every passing day,? Perhaps they were naive, they haven’t exactly got a track record of developing a site of the magnitude of the Showground. I can only see difficult days ahead for AEPG.

Good post. Keep the objections coming, even encourage friends and family to object. As well as the more detailed objections that point our their failings, it's a numbers game so a basic objection objecting to the loss of a perfectly viable existing culture, leisure, tourism and community facility; valuable city green space and one of the city's most successful and high profile sporting teams, in Peterborough Panthers speedway team, which has been in operation at the East of England Showground continuously for 53 seasons, that would do. Of course reword it or add your own thoughts so as not to look like a job lot, but do it.

I'd favour AEPG being told where to get off by PCC and them also telling the East of England Agricultural Society that they need a new plan more focused on enhancing the existing culture, leisure, tourism and community facility (including Peterborough Speedway) and AEPG and co can build their residential housing, and its alleged positive outcome for Peterborough, elsewhere.

Just a thought

 

[SPEEDY69]

14 hours ago, GeneralMelchett said:

263 objections - only 3 in favour as of 11.20 tonight

Still low though, given the fanbase speedway has.  Look how much coverage Wolves have had and Coventry still have, being driven by committed volunteers.  I am not in Peterborough or nearby so don't see what local coverage is like but surely the BSPL could promote objections/activity.

[OldNutter]

A little bit of info for the future.

When the two applications consultation closes, the two plans will almost certainly come back to the PCC to move on to the next step.  There will be a meeting of the Planning and Environment Protection Committee.  As outsiders, many of us will not be able to contribute to the discussions and we will have to rely on local supporters who live within the PCC wards.  The details of who is on that committee are shown here: https://democracy.peterborough.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=117

The councillors shown there are the ones you will need to "lobby" with your comments before that meeting.  I dare say, based on previous performances, the fact that the plans are going to committee might well not be made very obvious, so you may have to keep your ears to the ground.  Unfortunately, the only councillor (Julie Stevenson) to put their head above the parapet to talk to the papers so far is not on the committee, but she might be someone who can help from the sidelines.

The whole thing will be a fight and the opponents will have all the rules at their fingertips,  but being wrong is a distinct disadvantage for them so beating them is certainly possible.

 

[Mick Bratley]

2 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said:

Still low though, given the fanbase speedway has.  Look how much coverage Wolves have had and Coventry still have, being driven by committed volunteers.  I am not in Peterborough or nearby so don't see what local coverage is like but surely the BSPL could promote objections/activity.

It’s over 500 now and still on an upward trajectory. I’m told this number of objections is unusually high for planning applications in Peterborough, which isn’t a surprise given the actual difficulty of negotiating the planning portal.

[Falcon1983]

Question - what details do you leave when you object? can you do it privately or do you have to provide address and contact details?