Peterborough Panthers 2023

[Flappy]

1 hour ago, proud panther said:

Get the track right to produce good racing, & the average supporter would accept a few defeats.

Without doubt providing we're competitive. I'm not prepared to consistently be the whipping boys with zero ambition 

[pleasureboy60]

2 minutes ago, Flappy said:

Without doubt providing we're competitive. I'm not prepared to consistently be the whipping boys with zero ambition 

I agree entirely. For the last couple of seasons since the showground closure was announced. Chapman appears to have given up entirely on the Panthers.  Team building has been disappointing to say the least, but he still expects supporters to pay good money to watch average riders on a poorly prepared track.

The crowds at the showground have been exceptionally good compared to some other premiership teams and I think they deserve to see better quality riders, not a team of leftovers that nobody else seemed to want this season.

[Littleze]

6 hours ago, bigcatdiary said:

Voting with your feet is never the answer, thats the main reason speedway clubs fold.

I would have thought that was obvious to a Rye House fan.

The main reason Speedway clubs fold is due to largely, poor stadia, compared to other sports or activities on offer, no promotion, a near total disregard for their fan base, an amateurish “show” confusing rules, no meaningful competitions, which this leads to very little credibility and therefore exposure in media and the failure to attract sponsorship or investment. The failure to tap in a young audience on social media platforms.

 

AFTV (Arsenal Fan TV) have approx 1.5 million followers on their YouTube channel alone. It was started by 1 man (many since and before have shows/podcasts resulting in exposure, advertising, merchandise resulting from this & expanding revenue streams). AFTV don’t have anything to even sell… no game/no club/no museum/no access to players… the list goes on.

Speedway bosses have a product they could market to the whole world, they could interview riders, ex riders.. referees.. supporters, do bike examinations, show behind the scenes, team manager interviews, merchandise, tickets… do podcasts, show old clips… ANYTHING… what do they do… next to idiot all!

I used to attend Rye, from when my parents took me from 6months old.. we went to Mildenhall, P’boro, Lynn, Milton Keynes regularly. Rye was a great venue, with potential if there was investment for it to be a picturesque stadium and good night out. I’m not sure the track design/set up, like Wolves gave that good racing..

Yet, you’d have these old codgers as track staff, smoking as they came out, some fat bloke as start Marshall with his top barely over his belly, waving to his mates on parade, the contrast being the riders & their bikes pristine. It’s shabby.. scruffy, lazy and embarrassing.. it’s professional sport.. that should apply to staff too. Image and perception is just as important. The latest trend to keep the sagging tapes from hitting the track floor is the ORANGE TRAFFIC CONE!!  Seriously.. it looks rubbish on TV.. well it just looks rubbish. Add in the weather factor and all the other issues people raise. Address the above and you may just get the footfall back. Many well known high street shops disappeared because they didn’t adapt to the modern day market place.. and Speedway could well be that equivalent. That’s my opinion anyway.

[DizzAssStar]

2 hours ago, Flappy said:

 I'm not prepared to consistently be the whipping boys with zero ambition 

Didn't reallise that you are a KL fan ??

[Flappy]

2 minutes ago, DizzAssStar said:

Didn't reallise that you are a KL fan ??

[bigcatdiary]

1 hour ago, Littleze said:

The main reason Speedway clubs fold is due to largely, poor stadia, compared to other sports or activities on offer, no promotion, a near total disregard for their fan base, an amateurish “show” confusing rules, no meaningful competitions, which this leads to very little credibility and therefore exposure in media and the failure to attract sponsorship or investment. The failure to tap in a young audience on social media platforms.

 

AFTV (Arsenal Fan TV) have approx 1.5 million followers on their YouTube channel alone. It was started by 1 man (many since and before have shows/podcasts resulting in exposure, advertising, merchandise resulting from this & expanding revenue streams). AFTV don’t have anything to even sell… no game/no club/no museum/no access to players… the list goes on.

Speedway bosses have a product they could market to the whole world, they could interview riders, ex riders.. referees.. supporters, do bike examinations, show behind the scenes, team manager interviews, merchandise, tickets… do podcasts, show old clips… ANYTHING… what do they do… next to idiot all!

I used to attend Rye, from when my parents took me from 6months old.. we went to Mildenhall, P’boro, Lynn, Milton Keynes regularly. Rye was a great venue, with potential if there was investment for it to be a picturesque stadium and good night out. I’m not sure the track design/set up, like Wolves gave that good racing..

Yet, you’d have these old codgers as track staff, smoking as they came out, some fat bloke as start Marshall with his top barely over his belly, waving to his mates on parade, the contrast being the riders & their bikes pristine. It’s shabby.. scruffy, lazy and embarrassing.. it’s professional sport.. that should apply to staff too. Image and perception is just as important. The latest trend to keep the sagging tapes from hitting the track floor is the ORANGE TRAFFIC CONE!!  Seriously.. it looks rubbish on TV.. well it just looks rubbish. Add in the weather factor and all the other issues people raise. Address the above and you may just get the footfall back. Many well known high street shops disappeared because they didn’t adapt to the modern day market place.. and Speedway could well be that equivalent. That’s my opinion anyway.

Pretty much most of the clubs in this country are staged in old run down stadiums with very little facilities for supporters like seats or shelter from the elements some of which have been staging speedway for decades but they continue to run because they clearly get attendances which covers the costs for whatever the league they are in.

Your point about the lack of young fans is however a good one, few tracks offer cheap admission for children under the age of 11.

 

[Daniel Smith]

2 hours ago, pleasureboy60 said:

I agree entirely. For the last couple of seasons since the showground closure was announced. Chapman appears to have given up entirely on the Panthers.  Team building has been disappointing to say the least, but he still expects supporters to pay good money to watch average riders on a poorly prepared track.

The crowds at the showground have been exceptionally good compared to some other premiership teams and I think they deserve to see better quality riders, not a team of leftovers that nobody else seemed to want this season.

Last couple of season has nothing to do with closures. Buster (Allitt??) has produced teams both at Peterborough & King's Lynn of similar standard. 

You where fortunate to get a freak season to win the title, apart feom that season, our 2 clubs have been team building exactly the same, even switching rider's season on season & using guests. 

It's building a team with minimal financial loses in mind. 

We all wish to have sponsors like Ipswich but there are not the people with the love for the sport like them. 

I know Peterborough fans will say Tomlin was going to put up the money but there's a reason it didn't happen. It's not just down to Buster. 

[Littleze]

39 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said:

Pretty much most of the clubs in this country are staged in old run down stadiums with very little facilities for supporters like seats or shelter from the elements some of which have been staging speedway for decades but they continue to run because they clearly get attendances which covers the costs for whatever the league they are in.

Your point about the lack of young fans is however a good one, few tracks offer cheap admission for children under the age of 11.

 

My 1st point about Stadia, is still a good and very valid point.. they may well cover the costs, or they may not.. but the point is & you have essentially agreed is that they are old, uncomfortable often dirty and not suitable for the modern day sporting experience.. I’m not saying that is a club or owners fault, but it’s a negative to go with the many other negatives, many of which they can control. They don’t even have to come up with idea.. it’s been done for them. 
Football referees… same kit, varying colours, bright, modern. Why can’t clubs strike a Sponsorship deal with someone who provides say Black, all in one overalls. They have their name on the front.. advertising space can be on the back of the overalls for any other companies who wish to Sponsor. So, all leagues/Tracks and track staff have a standardised “uniform” which speaks of cohesion & adds a small level of professionalism to the show. Get some younger track staff, not blokes of 40+
Have walk out with riders (possibly their heroes) at parade, as they do in football. It’s hardly groundbreaking, costs idiot all.. the kids will probably love it & want to go back.

 

 

[mikebv]

24 minutes ago, Littleze said:

My 1st point about Stadia, is still a good and very valid point.. they may well cover the costs, or they may not.. but the point is & you have essentially agreed is that they are old, uncomfortable often dirty and not suitable for the modern day sporting experience.. I’m not saying that is a club or owners fault, but it’s a negative to go with the many other negatives, many of which they can control. They don’t even have to come up with idea.. it’s been done for them. 
Football referees… same kit, varying colours, bright, modern. Why can’t clubs strike a Sponsorship deal with someone who provides say Black, all in one overalls. They have their name on the front.. advertising space can be on the back of the overalls for any other companies who wish to Sponsor. So, all leagues/Tracks and track staff have a standardised “uniform” which speaks of cohesion & adds a small level of professionalism to the show. Get some younger track staff, not blokes of 40+
Have walk out with riders (possibly their heroes) at parade, as they do in football. It’s hardly groundbreaking, costs idiot all.. the kids will probably love it & want to go back.

 

 

There are truly dozens of ways to "get the message out there" to "ver kidz" but it appears not many want to do it...

For example. My lads old grassroots football team had teams from U8 to U16 and several teama at many of  the age groups...

Just in Stockport where I live alone there must have been well over 2000 kids playing football each Saturday and Sunday morning, for several hundred teams..

A perfect time for clubs to appear with riders and bikes on parks and set themselves up on those parks that can have up to 10 matches going on at any given time, handing out car stickers, free tickets etc..

Loads of kids and loads of parents on hand, and the same happens every afternoon as well as morning...

Each season the local kids leagues also run a trophy giving day where each age Group gets trophies. 

The younger ones all get one (there are no losers here), and the winners and runners up get trophies in the older leagues.. 

It would cost clubs very little to sponsor any of their local sporting leagues and their trophy giving day,, and get the league called after them..

Much, much less than they would be paying their heat leaders for just one match I would say..

In this modern era, if you have a decent smart phone, you have the chance to advertise yourself to millions...

Lots of ways of getting others to hear about you if you had the inclination.. 

And it needn't cost the earth.

 

[LagutaRacingFan]

So what's happening for Monday?

We need a world class guest.

[Crump99]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

There are truly dozens of ways to "get the message out there" to "ver kidz" but it appears not many want to do it...

For example. My lads old grassroots football team had teams from U8 to U16 and several teama at many of  the age groups...

Just in Stockport where I live alone there must have been well over 2000 kids playing football each Saturday and Sunday morning, for several hundred teams..

A perfect time for clubs to appear with riders and bikes on parks and set themselves up on those parks that can have up to 10 matches going on at any given time, handing out car stickers, free tickets etc..

Loads of kids and loads of parents on hand, and the same happens every afternoon as well as morning...

Each season the local kids leagues also run a trophy giving day where each age Group gets trophies. 

The younger ones all get one (there are no losers here), and the winners and runners up get trophies in the older leagues.. 

It would cost clubs very little to sponsor any of their local sporting leagues and their trophy giving day,, and get the league called after them..

Much, much less than they would be paying their heat leaders for just one match I would say..

In this modern era, if you have a decent smart phone, you have the chance to advertise yourself to millions...

Lots of ways of getting others to hear about you if you had the inclination.. 

And it needn't cost the earth.

 

And the cord snaps back! I'm not sponsored by Bratters by the way but what goes around comes around as our captain once said - and from a over a decade ago when it took real effort without electronic assistance :

Bratters' final Panthers blog on "Lovespeedway24"

During my time at Peterborough, I have done everything humanly possible to attract newcomers to our sport and all I might add on little or no budget. I have presented to over 2500 kids in various schools road show initiatives, I have invited and hosted whole organisations along for free and whole streets along for free. I have put up banners and posters, I have given away 1000’s of (sponsored) car stickers and more kids goodie bags than you can shake a stick at. I have offered free admission to members of the thriving local Polish club (one person came – once), 2 for 1 offers, Kids for a quid and Kids for free. We have on occasions been overrun by hundreds of Scout groups and I have undertaken umpteen radio interviews and quite a few local TV vox pops. I have put leaflets in newspapers, I have put leaflets through letterboxes, I have handed leaflets out in shopping malls and I have put 1000’s of leaflets on cars (with apologies to the owner of the Blue Vauxhall Astra in the Peterborough Railway Station Car Park in September 2007, honestly, it really did come off in my hand, so it must have already been broken). You name it and I’ve pretty much done it and all the time, our attendances have remained constant. Constantly poor.

It should be noted though that Panthers crowds now usually look fairly decent considering and have held up well, although not sure that will last in 2023 without a no1?

 

[mikebv]

9 hours ago, Crump99 said:

And the cord snaps back! I'm not sponsored by Bratters by the way but what goes around comes around as our captain once said - and from a over a decade ago when it took real effort without electronic assistance :

Bratters' final Panthers blog on "Lovespeedway24"

During my time at Peterborough, I have done everything humanly possible to attract newcomers to our sport and all I might add on little or no budget. I have presented to over 2500 kids in various schools road show initiatives, I have invited and hosted whole organisations along for free and whole streets along for free. I have put up banners and posters, I have given away 1000’s of (sponsored) car stickers and more kids goodie bags than you can shake a stick at. I have offered free admission to members of the thriving local Polish club (one person came – once), 2 for 1 offers, Kids for a quid and Kids for free. We have on occasions been overrun by hundreds of Scout groups and I have undertaken umpteen radio interviews and quite a few local TV vox pops. I have put leaflets in newspapers, I have put leaflets through letterboxes, I have handed leaflets out in shopping malls and I have put 1000’s of leaflets on cars (with apologies to the owner of the Blue Vauxhall Astra in the Peterborough Railway Station Car Park in September 2007, honestly, it really did come off in my hand, so it must have already been broken). You name it and I’ve pretty much done it and all the time, our attendances have remained constant. Constantly poor.

It should be noted though that Panthers crowds now usually look fairly decent considering and have held up well, although not sure that will last in 2023 without a no1?

 

Sounds like a lot of promotion was done, meaning, I presume,  that the VFM of the actual "night out" didn't meet the expectations of those who did attend...?

However, here is one example of many where tracks do (lots of) positive things in SILO rather than putting together a collective budget, and marketing themsleves nationally using professionals. .

Having been in marketing "build it and they will come" is as weak a plan as asking your fanbase to "bring a friend", or using "it's a sport you can bring your family to" as a strap line..

One off gestures simply don't work as it takes around 4 weeks to change someone's habits...

When I have done "mega offers" at store openings and handed out vouchers for them,  the uptake is around just 11%. We calculate this through how many redemptions we have v how many we distribute..

Now, as we give out 50,000 or so of those vouchers, that 11% is 5500 customers, who we then give out more vouchers to over the first four weeks of the stores life. As we know that by the fifth week the vast majority will now have changed habits and will stay with us...

The actual getting them there (often for free), is actually the "easy bit", the difficult bit is how you then engage them to come in over the next four weeks...

And expecting a family to suddenly pay out circa £60 to £70 for a night out one week after trying something new for free is a pipe dream I would suggest..

Enticing them with more reduced cost visits over the next few weeks/months could work though as the kids in particular you would hope would get engaged...

With so many people having an electronic footprint, target marketing has never been so easy, therefore those who attend but then stop, can be re targeted to see if they will visit again. ..

Given we are dealing with such low numbers, many tracks only need 300 or so more punters per night to do "ok", as that would add 5000 or so to the season and around £100k of revenue..

It doesn't have to be the same 300 though, as target marketing could get some to attend only once or twice, but it is once or twice more than currently,  and even at a reduced price, it is money the tracks don't currently get...

If each track had a database of 3000 or so who "follow" the club then these are the people that tracks need to target as a priority, as they already are engaged...

The 1200 to 1500 die hards are there every week, it's the ones who watch results from social media and their armchairs that they need in the stadiums. .

With those who maybe know the sport, or have no clue of it, being the ones you nationally advertise to, and then  "go out and seek and find", using a marketing budget to get them coming to the sport, hopefully very often, but even irregularly would be a very positive oucome..

[cowboy cookie returns?]

I don’t get all the hate for Tomlin on here.

the guy is a businessman if he could see a long term future for the club he would have brought it doing the winter. it looks like issues came up during the winter around a new site. That could be the cost, planning permission or a combination of both. Tomlin was never going to buy a club that had no future beyond October that isn’t good business sense.

Admittedly he could have kept the fans updated & come clean on the issues around his purchase falling though.

if I were a Peterborough fan I’d enjoy this season & the speedway while you can.

I generally wish all of you that are fighting to keep to club going all the best. 

[coldace]

10 hours ago, BassoRacingFan said:

So what's happening for Monday?

We need a world class guest.

You'll probably get Danny King, not sure he qualifies.

[TTT]

16 hours ago, Flappy said:

Without doubt providing we're competitive. I'm not prepared to consistently be the whipping boys with zero ambition 

Agree, The club is worth fighting for if it's under a Tomalin ownership.

Buster is just taking the mickey out of everyone as far as I'm concerned and he's not shown any fight for the club in regards to the team and the results for the last 12 months, Didn't bother making a team change last season when we we're getting slapped up left, right and centre and he hasn't bothered to sign a Nicki replacement this year even though he's had the opportunity to do so and instead he's opted to use KL engine room riders as the Peterborough No.1 as a way to save money.

Literally no point in anyone fighting a big uphill task if the end result see's Buster Chapman remain as the owner with a team that loses meetings at Home after 4 Heats of Speedway.

We need to hear from Michael Tomalin to get a clear picture as to what his intentions are going forward.

16 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

I don’t get all the hate for Tomlin on here.

the guy is a businessman if he could see a long term future for the club he would have brought it doing the winter. it looks like issues came up during the winter around a new site. That could be the cost, planning permission or a combination of both. Tomlin was never going to buy a club that had no future beyond October that isn’t good business sense.

Admittedly he could have kept the fans updated & come clean on the issues around his purchase falling though.

if I were a Peterborough fan I’d enjoy this season & the speedway while you can.

I generally wish all of you that are fighting to keep to club going all the best. 

It's only KL fans hating on MT out of loyalty for Buster.

Buster has been a big part of KL for years so it's understandable that KL fans will take his side.

I agree no businessman would by a business that doesn't have a guaranteed future.

[Catalan]

1 hour ago, TTT said:

Agree, The club is worth fighting for if it's under a Tomalin ownership.

Buster is just taking the mickey out of everyone as far as I'm concerned and he's not shown any fight for the club in regards to the team and the results for the last 12 months, Didn't bother making a team change last season when we we're getting slapped up left, right and centre and he hasn't bothered to sign a Nicki replacement this year even though he's had the opportunity to do so and instead he's opted to use KL engine room riders as the Peterborough No.1 as a way to save money.

Literally no point in anyone fighting a big uphill task if the end result see's Buster Chapman remain as the owner with a team that loses meetings at Home after 4 Heats of Speedway.

We need to hear from Michael Tomalin to get a clear picture as to what his intentions are going forward.

It's only KL fans hating on MT out of loyalty for Buster.

Buster has been a big part of KL for years so it's understandable that KL fans will take his side.

I agree no businessman would by a business that doesn't have a guaranteed future.

I'm not a Kings Lynn fan or a fan of Chapman but surely if he is as bad as you all think he would count his losses and walk?

Think we need to listen to Mick Bratley and trust what he says I always found him a solid guy.

[TTT]

1 hour ago, weatherman said:

I'm not a Kings Lynn fan or a fan of Chapman but surely if he is as bad as you all think he would count his losses and walk?

Think we need to listen to Mick Bratley and trust what he says I always found him a solid guy.

I think Buster gave up last year tbh, He was making changes at KL by signing Klindt and Jakobsen but at Peterborough we got lumbered with guests and R/R throughout the entire season whilst watching us take a battering every week.

From a fan perspective I just can't imagine any other Speedway owner sitting back watching his club lose at Home on a regular basis and not do anything about it, Only someone who doesn't care anymore would sit back and do nothing imo.

As for Mick he's a solid guy for sure and he's got the best interests of the club at heart.

[Bald Bloke]

35 minutes ago, TTT said:

I think Buster gave up last year tbh, He was making changes at KL by signing Klindt and Jakobsen but at Peterborough we got lumbered with guests and R/R throughout the entire season whilst watching us take a battering every week.

From a fan perspective I just can't imagine any other Speedway owner sitting back watching his club lose at Home on a regular basis and not do anything about it, Only someone who doesn't care anymore would sit back and do nothing imo.

As for Mick he's a solid guy for sure and he's got the best interests of the club at heart.

What this bloke who said this Thursday?.

 

“I think all criticism of Buster is unfair, he’s doing his best for sure in my opinion, he IS a good guy and does want the club to survive. It’s not easy running a Speedway club and very often, actually always, it’s about mitigating losses rather than making a profit”

Mick said this the above on here the other day.  The same bloke that  you said of him …You know the solid guy, who has the best interests of the club at heart .

 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Bald Bloke

[Daniel Smith]

2 hours ago, TTT said:

It's only KL fans hating on MT out of loyalty for Buster.

Buster has been a big part of KL for years so it's understandable that KL fans will take his side.

I agree no businessman would by a business that doesn't have a guaranteed future.

I'm a King's Lynn fan who stopped going because of Buster. You don't have to go around blinkered because you don't like something. We have to be objective & Buster isn't the problem. 

Had Tomlin kept his mouth shut I'm pretty sure most Peterborough fans would have been ok with Pedersen & Iversen as top 2 + Basso & fillers in between. 

The issue was, because of Tomlin's big mouth & the rumours of Holder, Tungate, Lindgren you'd all got your knickers in a twist about Chapman & since have became the blinkered ones. 

[Bald Bloke]

1 minute ago, Daniel Smith said:

I'm a King's Lynn fan who stopped going because of Buster. You don't have to go around blinkered because you don't like something. We have to be objective & Buster isn't the problem. 

Had Tomlin kept his mouth shut I'm pretty sure most Peterborough fans would have been ok with Pedersen & Iversen as top 2 + Basso & fillers in between. 

The issue was, because of Tomlin's big mouth & the rumours of Holder, Tungate, Lindgren you'd all got your knickers in a twist about Chapman & since have became the blinkered ones. 

Spot on.I’ been saying this for weeks…