Peterborough Panthers 2023

[Mick Bratley]

2 hours ago, Sully said:

Have you a link to this please? 

http://plandocs.peterborough.gov.uk/PublicAccess.WebSearch/(S(33qzxbe541ggm4e1rx5qcxun))/Results.aspx
 

Currently second document down PCC Policy.

While you’re there submit your own objection!

Here: https://planpa.peterborough.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=makeComment&keyVal=RSXWVDML04U00

And here: https://planpa.peterborough.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=makeComment&keyVal=RSOMJ0MLIWV00

[Mick Bratley]

4 hours ago, Crump99 said:

Glad that I read that again because the first bit answered what I remembered you saying about going to the SoS if their applications are rejected when they eventually get examined by PCC and hopefully thrown out.

Secondly, Butterfield is, IMO, incapable of admitting that he's wrong so will keep chipping away throughout 2024, trying to plug the gaps in AEPG's increasingly unpopular concrete vision and attending more dinners for influential business people that he somehow keeps appearing at trying to make out that he's one of them.

The longer it goes on the worse it looks for EEAS/AEPG so keeping the pressure on as Bratters and co are doing, is vital. If they can I think that AEPG will go early. Bearing in mind that it was reported in September that:

• Peterborough Panthers speedway team informed in 2022 that the 2023 season would sadly have to be their last in the Showground grandstand, as that area is expected to be under different ownership by the time the 2024 Speedway season begins.
• Sale of the land is expected to be approved by Spring 2024, again subject to planning approval.
• The spades-in-the-ground date is still unclear until the planning committee's decision. Plans are at the outline planning stage now, which will be referred to several more stages of detailed back-and-forth, no doubt, before anything can physically go ahead. 

 

 

He was pictured in the press last week attending a homeless charity! Why I don’t know, maybe something to do with affordable homes. Luckily the reporter knew of him and refused to interview him, as hard as he may have tried to get interviewed. Tinpot.

[RogerM22]

48 minutes ago, Mick Bratley said:

He was pictured in the press last week attending a homeless charity! Why I don’t know, maybe something to do with affordable homes. Luckily the reporter knew of him and refused to interview him, as hard as he may have tried to get interviewed. Tinpot.

Perhaps he was acquainting himself ready for when his whole plan comes crumbling down.

[Crump99]

40 minutes ago, Mick Bratley said:

He was pictured in the press last week attending a homeless charity! Why I don’t know, maybe something to do with affordable homes. Luckily the reporter knew of him and refused to interview him, as hard as he may have tried to get interviewed. Tinpot.

Ideal attendee. He thinks that he's important and welcome in our city but at the same time looks like one of the homeless. Covers all bases

I didn't see AEPG on the sponsor list either? Either they are running out of money, realising that they are unpopular or realising that they can't buy good publicity. I looked at many of the Great Eastern Run reports and despite the big splash they made of their sponsorship I never saw them mentioned.

[Mick Bratley]

2 hours ago, Crump99 said:

Ideal attendee. He thinks that he's important and welcome in our city but at the same time looks like one of the homeless. Covers all bases

I didn't see AEPG on the sponsor list either? Either they are running out of money, realising that they are unpopular or realising that they can't buy good publicity. I looked at many of the Great Eastern Run reports and despite the big splash they made of their sponsorship I never saw them mentioned.

Third from the left in this picture. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-67491812

[Flappy]

Butterfield is obviously a massive fight but what about Chapman?

[Mick Bratley]

6 minutes ago, Flappy said:

Butterfield is obviously a massive fight but what about Chapman?

Don’t stress yourself over this.

[OldNutter]

A few facts. Sorry it is long, but I feel we are at or near an important crossroads and need to concentrate on the real enemy.

The showground is probably worth about £1.3m as agricultural land. If planning permission was granted for the whole site it would be worth about £20m.

The speedway site was in the area called “Land A” and that is about one third and could hold the 650 houses in the plan 23/00412/OUT. That land area represents a current value of around £400K as farm land and would have a value with full planning of about £8-10m before a brick is even laid. The Land 2 area is not likely to be worth much more than that because it would have schools and more of the support activities like the mini golf course, an unnecessary hotel and the overload 800 houses that are not required to meet the current city plans.

AEPG is a one-man band that came into being in early 2021. Three subordinate companies were also formed around the same time from scratch..

AEP Residential

AEP Land

AEP Arena

All four have one Director (no surprise who), one share of £1 and one employee

Butterfield also took over the showground operating company off the Agricultural Society called East of England Showground Services Ltd. That company appears to be currently funded by the unplanned DPD contract now there are no events to provide any money for AEPG.

The Access Earning Planning Group (clue of their business aims is in the name) has one project with one aim to get planning permission for 650 homes, sell the up-priced land with it’s planning permissions to a building developer, move onto Land B with some of the profit and get planning permission for as much else as possible. Be assured that none of those AEP companies is not going to build a single thing.

The phase one master plan was to get planning permission for at least the 650 homes signed up by March 2024 in time for the next round of annual company reports and have it sold off to a Bodgit and Scarper to build the houses. Hence the need to remove the speedway to enable completion of the land sale ownership change before the start of the 2024 season, as AEPG has spelled out! The latest publicity stunt on affordable homes shows how detached with reality Butterfield is. The mix of unaffordable so-called affordable homes ( social housing to the rest of us) is likely to be changed as the builder submits variations to reduce their numbers because he couldn’t sell them. - it happened round here when a developer requested a change half-way through the estate build to reduce the number of affordable homes and was allowed to reduce the percentage to half overall by not building any more in the second half of the build!

The critically weak points in the plan are to do with timing and content. Borrowing costs are mounting and the March deadline is looking unlikely to be met– they need a Plan B. The Land B development will not provide the necessary infrastructure or much more free money. Add the fact that the PCC planners realise, possibly as a result of all the objections to the plan by local and regional fans of the showground who coalesced around the emotion from speedway fans, that the showground is too much of a Peterborough institution to allow it to effectively be destroyed. As the PCC document points out, the current plans were going to effectively totally destroy the essence of the showground and replace it with a lump of houses plus schools, nurseries, medics, a load of infrastructure, poncy pretend pseudo-sporty stuff and that unnecessary hotel. The plan is fatally flawed. Whether a chancer from the outer reaches of West London is ever going to understand the power of local knowledge and emotion is unlikely. It is now either back to the drawing board or try this particular "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" scheme somewhere else with the wreckage of this one. The further away the better.

Edited November 27, 2023 by OldNutter
minor update

[Crump99]

12 hours ago, OldNutter said:

have it sold off to a Bodgit and Scarper

The plan is fatally flawed. Whether a chancer from the outer reaches of West London is ever going to understand the power of local knowledge and emotion is unlikely.

Couple of points:

For any Bodgit and Scarper (like it ) operations thinking of linking up with these clowns, I hope they are paying attention because Butterfield and AEPG would just be their General Haig!

Bratters cares about Peterborough and Peterborough Speedway and knows more than Butterfield about both so I'm sure that our chancer friend is learning pretty quickly.

[Mick Bratley]

13 hours ago, OldNutter said:

A few facts. Sorry it is long, but I feel we are at or near an important crossroads and need to concentrate on the real enemy.

The showground is probably worth about £1.3m as agricultural land. If planning permission was granted for the whole site it would be worth about £20m.

The speedway site was in the area called “Land A” and that is about one third and could hold the 650 houses in the plan 23/00412/OUT. That land area represents a current value of around £400K as farm land and would have a value with full planning of about £8-10m before a brick is even laid. The Land 2 area is not likely to be worth much more than that because it would have schools and more of the support activities like the mini golf course, an unnecessary hotel and the overload 800 houses that are not required to meet the current city plans.

AEPG is a one-man band that came into being in early 2021. Three subordinate companies were also formed around the same time from scratch..

AEP Residential

AEP Land

AEP Arena

All four have one Director (no surprise who), one share of £1 and one employee

Butterfield also took over the showground operating company off the Agricultural Society called East of England Showground Services Ltd. That company appears to be currently funded by the unplanned DPD contract now there are no events to provide any money for AEPG.

The Access Earning Planning Group (clue of their business aims is in the name) has one project with one aim to get planning permission for 650 homes, sell the up-priced land with it’s planning permissions to a building developer, move onto Land B with some of the profit and get planning permission for as much else as possible. Be assured that none of those AEP companies is not going to build a single thing.

The phase one master plan was to get planning permission for at least the 650 homes signed up by March 2024 in time for the next round of annual company reports and have it sold off to a Bodgit and Scarper to build the houses. Hence the need to remove the speedway to enable completion of the land sale ownership change before the start of the 2024 season, as AEPG has spelled out! The latest publicity stunt on affordable homes shows how detached with reality Butterfield is. The mix of unaffordable so-called affordable homes ( social housing to the rest of us) is likely to be changed as the builder submits variations to reduce their numbers because he couldn’t sell them. - it happened round here when a developer requested a change half-way through the estate build to reduce the number of affordable homes and was allowed to reduce the percentage to half overall by not building any more in the second half of the build!

The critically weak points in the plan are to do with timing and content. Borrowing costs are mounting and the March deadline is looking unlikely to be met– they need a Plan B. The Land B development will not provide the necessary infrastructure or much more free money. Add the fact that the PCC planners realise, possibly as a result of all the objections to the plan by local and regional fans of the showground who coalesced around the emotion from speedway fans, that the showground is too much of a Peterborough institution to allow it to effectively be destroyed. As the PCC document points out, the current plans were going to effectively totally destroy the essence of the showground and replace it with a lump of houses plus schools, nurseries, medics, a load of infrastructure, poncy pretend pseudo-sporty stuff and that unnecessary hotel. The plan is fatally flawed. Whether a chancer from the outer reaches of West London is ever going to understand the power of local knowledge and emotion is unlikely. It is now either back to the drawing board or try this particular "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" scheme somewhere else with the wreckage of this one. The further away the better.

At £1.3m there would have been a very long queue to purchase the Showground and I would have been in that queue! About five years ago it has been reported that £10m could have bought it although it wasn’t widely advertised. Again that would have had a lengthy queue of suitors if it had been marketed properly. I probably wouldn’t have been in that queue! You probably need to add another zero to the value with planning approval, already there is tacit agreement from three separate house developers for three parcels of land for approx £35m although given the current slump in house building they may kick that into the long grass.

[Great Central]

14 hours ago, OldNutter said:

A few facts. Sorry it is long, but I feel we are at or near an important crossroads and need to concentrate on the real enemy.

The showground is probably worth about £1.3m as agricultural land. If planning permission was granted for the whole site it would be worth about £20m.

The speedway site was in the area called “Land A” and that is about one third and could hold the 650 houses in the plan 23/00412/OUT. That land area represents a current value of around £400K as farm land and would have a value with full planning of about £8-10m before a brick is even laid. The Land 2 area is not likely to be worth much more than that because it would have schools and more of the support activities like the mini golf course, an unnecessary hotel and the overload 800 houses that are not required to meet the current city plans.

AEPG is a one-man band that came into being in early 2021. Three subordinate companies were also formed around the same time from scratch..

AEP Residential

AEP Land

AEP Arena

All four have one Director (no surprise who), one share of £1 and one employee

Butterfield also took over the showground operating company off the Agricultural Society called East of England Showground Services Ltd. That company appears to be currently funded by the unplanned DPD contract now there are no events to provide any money for AEPG.

The Access Earning Planning Group (clue of their business aims is in the name) has one project with one aim to get planning permission for 650 homes, sell the up-priced land with it’s planning permissions to a building developer, move onto Land B with some of the profit and get planning permission for as much else as possible. Be assured that none of those AEP companies is not going to build a single thing.

The phase one master plan was to get planning permission for at least the 650 homes signed up by March 2024 in time for the next round of annual company reports and have it sold off to a Bodgit and Scarper to build the houses. Hence the need to remove the speedway to enable completion of the land sale ownership change before the start of the 2024 season, as AEPG has spelled out! The latest publicity stunt on affordable homes shows how detached with reality Butterfield is. The mix of unaffordable so-called affordable homes ( social housing to the rest of us) is likely to be changed as the builder submits variations to reduce their numbers because he couldn’t sell them. - it happened round here when a developer requested a change half-way through the estate build to reduce the number of affordable homes and was allowed to reduce the percentage to half overall by not building any more in the second half of the build!

The critically weak points in the plan are to do with timing and content. Borrowing costs are mounting and the March deadline is looking unlikely to be met– they need a Plan B. The Land B development will not provide the necessary infrastructure or much more free money. Add the fact that the PCC planners realise, possibly as a result of all the objections to the plan by local and regional fans of the showground who coalesced around the emotion from speedway fans, that the showground is too much of a Peterborough institution to allow it to effectively be destroyed. As the PCC document points out, the current plans were going to effectively totally destroy the essence of the showground and replace it with a lump of houses plus schools, nurseries, medics, a load of infrastructure, poncy pretend pseudo-sporty stuff and that unnecessary hotel. The plan is fatally flawed. Whether a chancer from the outer reaches of West London is ever going to understand the power of local knowledge and emotion is unlikely. It is now either back to the drawing board or try this particular "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" scheme somewhere else with the wreckage of this one. The further away the better.

Excellent summary so thank you. Just add to it, the Agricultural Society appears to have transferred all the shares of EESS Ltd to AEPG who will then repay the Agricultural Society from the money raised when Phase 1 goes through and money starts coming in. It seems to me that EAAS have been taken in by this "crook". 

[Mick Bratley]

23 minutes ago, Great Central said:

Excellent summary so thank you. Just add to it, the Agricultural Society appears to have transferred all the shares of EESS Ltd to AEPG who will then repay the Agricultural Society from the money raised when Phase 1 goes through and money starts coming in. It seems to me that EAAS have been taken in by this "crook". 

‘Crook’ is not the right word. Amateur or Tinpot would be a better summarisation.

[Crump99]

2 hours ago, Mick Bratley said:

already there is tacit agreement from three separate house developers

Oh dear. Poor buggers. I hope that they are watching and have it in print. I'd pay close attention to the detail and evidence.

[OldNutter]

My apologies Bratters, my bad.  Having done the sums again based on more realistic valuations I agree that I got the final pre-build values wrong and the whole site with full planning permission is likely to be more like £90-100m unbuilt. Using a better real basis using local figures Land A is about 18-22 usable hectares and at around 1.6m per hectare fully planned would probably be worth around £30-35m unbuilt.  Land B would be around twice the size but at the lower density of housing is probably worth more like £55-65m.  My original current starting values were based on it being undeveloped grassland and yours would probably have included the working Arena and a good chunk of ongoing goodwill that has been thrown down the drain.  What it will be actually be worth after being packed down with permanent parked cars and lorries is anyone's guess.  Thanks

[Mick Bratley]

58 minutes ago, OldNutter said:

My apologies Bratters, my bad.  Having done the sums again based on more realistic valuations I agree that I got the final pre-build values wrong and the whole site with full planning permission is likely to be more like £90-100m unbuilt. Using a better real basis using local figures Land A is about 18-22 usable hectares and at around 1.6m per hectare fully planned would probably be worth around £30-35m unbuilt.  Land B would be around twice the size but at the lower density of housing is probably worth more like £55-65m.  My original current starting values were based on it being undeveloped grassland and yours would probably have included the working Arena and a good chunk of ongoing goodwill that has been thrown down the drain.  What it will be actually be worth after being packed down with permanent parked cars and lorries is anyone's guess.  Thanks

No apology necessary fella.

[Crump99]

On 8/22/2023 at 9:28 PM, Colinspeedway said:

Completely separate to the local plan. An application rather than a designation. 

This article explains further and I think this avenue needs to be considered by Peterborough and Wolves.

https://southleedslife.com/supporters-secure-elland-road-as-an-asset-of-community-value/ 

From Cllr Julie Stevenson of Orton Waterville (27/11/23) - on Facebook:

IMPORTANT NEWS: SAVE PETERBOROUGH SPEEDWAY

As part of the ongoing effort to protect Peterborough’s speedway track and team (Peterborough Panthers), Orton Waterville Parish Council is to debate whether it is in the public interest to register the track as an Asset of Community Value (ACV).

If the parish council votes in favour of initiating the ACV registration process, it may put a halt to any intentions to destroy the speedway track.

What is an ACV? The Localism Act of 2011 created a provision that allows ‘defined community groups’, such as parish councils, to ask their local authority to list assets that meet the relevant criteria as being of ‘community value’.

The Localism Act defines an asset of community value if:
Its actual or current use (or there is a time in the recent past when its use) furthers the social wellbeing or social interests of the local community, and

It is realistic to think that there can continue to be (or it is realistic to think that there is a time in the next five years) non-ancillary use of the asset that would further the social wellbeing or social interests of the local community.

The debate will take place between members of the parish council during a meeting of Orton Waterville parish council on Wednesday 29th November 2023.

If the decision is taken to register the track as an ACV, the next step will be for the parish council to ask Peterborough City Council to initiate the registration process.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Crump99

[Colinspeedway]

15 hours ago, Crump99 said:

From Cllr Julie Stevenson of Orton Waterville (27/11/23) - on Facebook:

IMPORTANT NEWS: SAVE PETERBOROUGH SPEEDWAY

As part of the ongoing effort to protect Peterborough’s speedway track and team (Peterborough Panthers), Orton Waterville Parish Council is to debate whether it is in the public interest to register the track as an Asset of Community Value (ACV).

If the parish council votes in favour of initiating the ACV registration process, it may put a halt to any intentions to destroy the speedway track.

What is an ACV? The Localism Act of 2011 created a provision that allows ‘defined community groups’, such as parish councils, to ask their local authority to list assets that meet the relevant criteria as being of ‘community value’.

The Localism Act defines an asset of community value if:
Its actual or current use (or there is a time in the recent past when its use) furthers the social wellbeing or social interests of the local community, and

It is realistic to think that there can continue to be (or it is realistic to think that there is a time in the next five years) non-ancillary use of the asset that would further the social wellbeing or social interests of the local community.

The debate will take place between members of the parish council during a meeting of Orton Waterville parish council on Wednesday 29th November 2023.

If the decision is taken to register the track as an ACV, the next step will be for the parish council to ask Peterborough City Council to initiate the registration process.

Thank you for the reply. Glad to see that this avenue is being explored. 

[Waspman]

I was at the nec bike show Sunday,I was told the track has been ripped up is that true or cobblers 

[cambpanther]

11 minutes ago, Waspman said:

I was at the nec bike show Sunday,I was told the track has been ripped up is that true or cobblers 

True

[Waspman]

53 minutes ago, cambpanther said:

True

Ok the person was from Peterborough so I thought it must be true but u never know if it's correct thanks