Peterborough Panthers 2023

[Sir Sidney]

2 hours ago, bigcatdiary said:

You are free to put a complaint in about this ( I have) the PCC need to grow a pair and take this company to task.

I'm not clear on the basis on which the Planning Committee decision has not been enacted.

 

My understanding is that AEPG are being allowed to modify its application and take it back to Planning Committee, rather than having to submit an appeal about the decision to refuse. 

[noaksey]

25 minutes ago, Sir Sidney said:

I'm not clear on the basis on which the Planning Committee decision has not been enacted.

 

My understanding is that AEPG are being allowed to modify its application and take it back to Planning Committee, rather than having to submit an appeal about the decision to refuse. 

That option is available to anyone if they can reach an agreement with the planners to do so, alternatively they can withdraw and resubmit or appeal the original decision 

[TTT]

Buster doesn't want to put up any kind of fight for the club so this is what you do.

 

1. You agree a fixed price with the consortium and you hand the club over to them NOW! so the consortium can actually put up a fight against AEPG.

2. If the consortium thwarts AEPG and gets confirmation of a Showground return in 2025 then the sale can go through at the agreed price with Buster.

3. No Showground return......No sale

 

What you don't do is this.

 

1. Assist AEPG in demolishing the showground.

2. Don't bother voicing any support for those who are trying to fight for the club's future.

3. Stick the boot in by announcing Panthers riders / management signing for King's Lynn on a Save Peterborough Speedway Protest Day instead of covering the protest itself.

[noaksey]

That idea is exactly what should happen albeit there would possibly need to be additional clauses inserted dealing with the possibility of the consortium starting at a new site within an agreed time frame 

In terms of your first point it's entirely plausible that he's given the consortium his price and they aren't prepared to pay it hence the impasse

[Crump99]

10 hours ago, Rickyag said:

We definitely will not ever go to Kings Lynn again until Allitt and Chapman have gone. Would sooner drive past and go to another club now with Peterborough closed. 

Be more fun in the summer driving past and going to the coast.

[Crump99]

6 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

This stuff about signing P'boro riders to get Panthers fans to Lynn is a red herring IMO, they are riders who Buster, Dale & Rob have an affinity with already  having worked with them, and they were part of a team who finished the season strongly. Of course they would want to sign them again. 

The riders just want a job so nothing to see here. If Panthers had been running they'd have been at the EoES but someone offered them that job with some consistency and familiarity. Who wouldn't take it? Speedway politics of this nature doesn't take up much, if any, of their time.

The only villain here is Chapman who has allegedly taken down his more successful local rivals and plundered their riding assets etc. He's of course welcome to put his side and explain the efforts he made during 2023 to keep Panthers afloat for 2024 and why he's still clinging on to bugger all now. Sadly I think that there is more chance potentially of Ashley Butterfield appearing as VIP guest at the opening meeting at the Norfolk Arena.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Crump99

[Shhalewhhale]

5 hours ago, GeneralMelchett said:

I regret I only ever made it to Alwalton once, but from Sheffield it is about 90 minutes on a decent run.

I'm from Sheffield originally and my parents still go there. Travelling up is not so easy as it used to be as the A1 is constantly busy nowadays, but yes, I can get back in a little over 90 minutes.

[GeneralMelchett]

50 minutes ago, Shhalewhhale said:

I'm from Sheffield originally and my parents still go there. Travelling up is not so easy as it used to be as the A1 is constantly busy nowadays, but yes, I can get back in a little over 90 minutes.

I travel down the A1 every fortnight luckily the 40-50 zones seem to have all gone now! 

[Sir Sidney]

6 hours ago, noaksey said:

That option is available to anyone if they can reach an agreement with the planners to do so, alternatively they can withdraw and resubmit or appeal the original decision 

Thanks for the clarification. I trust the resubmitted application will provide time for comments again. 

[OldNutter]

On 11/24/2023 at 2:47 PM, bigcatdiary said:

You are free to put a complaint in about this ( I have) the PCC need to grow a pair and take this company to task.

Bigcatdiary has spotted a document on the planning portal at PCC that all of us should have a quick read of (thanks for that).  It is the one dated 22 Novermber and is listed with all of the objections.  It brings their views out into the public following the meeting for the two planning applications that were turned down recently that should have curdled Butterfield's breakfast cereal.  Probably the most significant bit of it is an overall theme that the tactic of splitting the site into two parts was a monumental mistake.  Far from making the plans slip under the various portal doors, it has actually opened up the whole plan for what it is - an attempt to concrete the showground  in an attempt to make loads of money in exchange for replacing a major Peterborough asset with little more than a thumbnail of silly unnecessary money making pretend sporting venues, a few corner shops and an unnecessary hotel.  Clearly from this document, PCC planners, helped by local councillors lots of active locals and proper sports fans, have finally seen right through the whole charade.

The tenure of that 22 Nov report is that the Local Plan was designed and passed into law with the aim of possibly adding a few new houses (although it is clear here that there are enough already on the planners books anyway) and keeping the showground as a working and very positive asset for the local area.  The loss of all those events that Butterfield and his cronies actively killed off by stopping them booking the showground are highlighted in the report and it is very clear indeed that the PCC planners didn't buy all those sneaky tactics and saw them for what they were - a gigantic con trick.  (applause please!)

There is a section on LP36 that points out that the way the development has been planned does almost certainly not meet the requirements spelled out in LP36 to retain the character and use of the showground with either the two plans or a big single one.  It specifically identifies the loss of the speedway  in this part of their comments.

The section on LP30 is absolutely devastating.  It specifically says that AEPG should not have served notice on the club to take the safety infrastructure and lighting down to make the club non-viable.  This is a loud barbed reference to the fact that making the club vacate the site is the real reason for Peterborough Panthers not being able to complete in speedway next season.  It also highlights the objection by Sport England, so a second round of applause. please.

I would venture to suggest that this PCC document is an excellent repost to any idea that Butterfield thinks it would be a good idea to appeal to the SoS against the first stage of the application that was so comprehensively rejected.  A third and hopefully final round of applause please to all those who helped to highlight all of the flaws in this silly idea and let's make sure we keep our boots on their throats until the whole Butterfield gang are ejected southwards back down that lovely newly surfaced bit of the A1(M).  I really do hope they will see the error of their ways although I am sure they will keep bashing away so  we must keep our eyes peeled for the next chapter in this sorry saga.

Edited November 25, 2023 by OldNutter
minor bits

[Mick Bratley]

53 minutes ago, OldNutter said:

Bigcatdiary has spotted a document on the planning portal at PCC that all of us should have a quick read of (thanks for that).  It is the one dated 22 Novermber and is listed with all of the objections.  It brings their views out into the public following the meeting for the two planning applications that were turned down recently that should have curdled Butterfield's breakfast cereal.  Probably the most significant bit of it is an overall theme that the tactic of splitting the site into two parts was a monumental mistake.  Far from making the plans slip under the various portal doors, it has actually opened up the whole plan for what it is - an attempt to concrete the showground  in an attempt to make loads of money in exchange for replacing a major Peterborough asset with little more than a thumbnail of silly unnecessary money making pretend sporting venues, a few corner shops and an unnecessary hotel.  Clearly from this document, PCC planners, helped by local councillors lots of active locals and proper sports fans, have finally seen right through the whole charade.

The tenure of that 22 Nov report is that the Local Plan was designed and passed into law with the aim of possibly adding a few new houses (although it is clear here that there are enough already on the planners books anyway) and keeping the showground as a working and very positive asset for the local area.  The loss of all those events that Butterfield and his cronies actively killed off by stopping them booking the showground are highlighted in the report and it is very clear indeed that the PCC planners didn't buy all those sneaky tactics and saw them for what they were - a gigantic con trick.  (applause please!)

There is a section on LP36 that points out that the way the development has been planned does almost certainly not meet the requirements spelled out in LP36 to retain the character and use of the showground with either the two plans or a big single one.  It specifically identifies the loss of the speedway  in this part of their comments.

The section on LP30 is absolutely devastating.  It specifically says that AEPG should not have served notice on the club to take the safety infrastructure and lighting down to make the club non-viable.  This is a loud barbed reference to the fact that making the club vacate the site is the real reason for Peterborough Panthers not being able to complete in speedway next season.  It also highlights the objection by Sport England, so a second round of applause. please.

I would venture to suggest that this PCC document is an excellent repost to any idea that Butterfield thinks it would be a good idea to appeal to the SoS against the first stage of the application that was so comprehensively rejected.  A third and hopefully final round of applause please to all those who helped to highlight all of the flaws in this silly idea and let's make sure we keep our boots on their throats until the whole Butterfield gang are ejected southwards back down that lovely newly surfaced bit of the A1(M).  I really do hope they will see the error of their ways although I am sure they will keep bashing away so  we must keep our eyes peeled for the next chapter in this sorry saga.

The shift in power of the council has definitely helped Speedway’s cause. The pressure we have put on AEPG is immense and guess what we’ve only just begun. The next two weeks are going to heap even more pressure on AEPG specifically with one confirmed (and as yet not announced publicly) event and one that I hope will be confirmed early next week. These two events will hit AEPG very hard. There is also another rally in the shopping centre of the ward where the Showground is on Saturday 2nd December.

Also worth pointing out that the document you mention above originates from the PCC Planning Department. Great to see that Speedway is specifically mentioned in LP30, which kicks AEPG in the nuts as they have recently stated in a statement that LP30 does not specifically relate to Speedway. ‘ave it!

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Mick Bratley

[Flappy]

1 hour ago, Mick Bratley said:

The shift in power of the council has definitely helped Speedway’s cause. The pressure we have put on AEPG is immense and guess what we’ve only just begun. The next two weeks are going to heap even more pressure on AEPG specifically with one confirmed (and as yet not announced publicly) event and one that I hope will be confirmed early next week. These two events will hit AEPG very hard. There is also another rally in the shopping centre of the ward where the Showground is on Saturday 2nd December.

Also worth pointing out that the document you mention above originates from the PCC Planning Department. Great to see that Speedway is specifically mentioned in LP30, which kicks AEPG in the nuts as they have recently stated in a statement that LP30 does not specifically relate to Speedway. ‘ave it!

 

So why is our owner not fighting this?

[cowboy cookie returns?]

3 minutes ago, Flappy said:

So why is our owner not fighting this?

Because he doesn’t care & doesn’t want to promote Peterborough speedway. The ridiculous part of all this is had he put some effort in last winter or earlier this year to find out all that now come out about AEPG he may have found it easier to sell the club as undoubtedly Speedway could have continued at the showground

[Flappy]

3 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

Because he doesn’t care & doesn’t want to promote Peterborough speedway. The ridiculous part of all this is had he put some effort in last winter or earlier this year to find out all that now come out about AEPG he may have found it easier to sell the club as undoubtedly Speedway could have continued at the showground

Yet he's not being held to account, surely he's as culpable as Butterfield 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Flappy

[BluPanther]

7 minutes ago, Flappy said:

So why is our owner not fighting this?

Maybe he's on a big brown envelope promise, but has seriously underestimated those that have real passion for the club...

[Flappy]

1 hour ago, BluPanther said:

Maybe he's on a big brown envelope promise, but has seriously underestimated those that have real passion for the club...

Your words not mine but something very fishy going on

[Elyboy]

5 hours ago, OldNutter said:

Bigcatdiary has spotted a document on the planning portal at PCC that all of us should have a quick read of (thanks for that).  It is the one dated 22 Novermber and is listed with all of the objections.  It brings their views out into the public following the meeting for the two planning applications that were turned down recently that should have curdled Butterfield's breakfast cereal.  Probably the most significant bit of it is an overall theme that the tactic of splitting the site into two parts was a monumental mistake.  Far from making the plans slip under the various portal doors, it has actually opened up the whole plan for what it is - an attempt to concrete the showground  in an attempt to make loads of money in exchange for replacing a major Peterborough asset with little more than a thumbnail of silly unnecessary money making pretend sporting venues, a few corner shops and an unnecessary hotel.  Clearly from this document, PCC planners, helped by local councillors lots of active locals and proper sports fans, have finally seen right through the whole charade.

The tenure of that 22 Nov report is that the Local Plan was designed and passed into law with the aim of possibly adding a few new houses (although it is clear here that there are enough already on the planners books anyway) and keeping the showground as a working and very positive asset for the local area.  The loss of all those events that Butterfield and his cronies actively killed off by stopping them booking the showground are highlighted in the report and it is very clear indeed that the PCC planners didn't buy all those sneaky tactics and saw them for what they were - a gigantic con trick.  (applause please!)

There is a section on LP36 that points out that the way the development has been planned does almost certainly not meet the requirements spelled out in LP36 to retain the character and use of the showground with either the two plans or a big single one.  It specifically identifies the loss of the speedway  in this part of their comments.

The section on LP30 is absolutely devastating.  It specifically says that AEPG should not have served notice on the club to take the safety infrastructure and lighting down to make the club non-viable.  This is a loud barbed reference to the fact that making the club vacate the site is the real reason for Peterborough Panthers not being able to complete in speedway next season.  It also highlights the objection by Sport England, so a second round of applause. please.

I would venture to suggest that this PCC document is an excellent repost to any idea that Butterfield thinks it would be a good idea to appeal to the SoS against the first stage of the application that was so comprehensively rejected.  A third and hopefully final round of applause please to all those who helped to highlight all of the flaws in this silly idea and let's make sure we keep our boots on their throats until the whole Butterfield gang are ejected southwards back down that lovely newly surfaced bit of the A1(M).  I really do hope they will see the error of their ways although I am sure they will keep bashing away so  we must keep our eyes peeled for the next chapter in this sorry saga.

Just read it and not in apeg favor is it

 

5 hours ago, OldNutter said:

Bigcatdiary has spotted a document on the planning portal at PCC that all of us should have a quick read of (thanks for that).  It is the one dated 22 Novermber and is listed with all of the objections.  It brings their views out into the public following the meeting for the two planning applications that were turned down recently that should have curdled Butterfield's breakfast cereal.  Probably the most significant bit of it is an overall theme that the tactic of splitting the site into two parts was a monumental mistake.  Far from making the plans slip under the various portal doors, it has actually opened up the whole plan for what it is - an attempt to concrete the showground  in an attempt to make loads of money in exchange for replacing a major Peterborough asset with little more than a thumbnail of silly unnecessary money making pretend sporting venues, a few corner shops and an unnecessary hotel.  Clearly from this document, PCC planners, helped by local councillors lots of active locals and proper sports fans, have finally seen right through the whole charade.

The tenure of that 22 Nov report is that the Local Plan was designed and passed into law with the aim of possibly adding a few new houses (although it is clear here that there are enough already on the planners books anyway) and keeping the showground as a working and very positive asset for the local area.  The loss of all those events that Butterfield and his cronies actively killed off by stopping them booking the showground are highlighted in the report and it is very clear indeed that the PCC planners didn't buy all those sneaky tactics and saw them for what they were - a gigantic con trick.  (applause please!)

There is a section on LP36 that points out that the way the development has been planned does almost certainly not meet the requirements spelled out in LP36 to retain the character and use of the showground with either the two plans or a big single one.  It specifically identifies the loss of the speedway  in this part of their comments.

The section on LP30 is absolutely devastating.  It specifically says that AEPG should not have served notice on the club to take the safety infrastructure and lighting down to make the club non-viable.  This is a loud barbed reference to the fact that making the club vacate the site is the real reason for Peterborough Panthers not being able to complete in speedway next season.  It also highlights the objection by Sport England, so a second round of applause. please.

I would venture to suggest that this PCC document is an excellent repost to any idea that Butterfield thinks it would be a good idea to appeal to the SoS against the first stage of the application that was so comprehensively rejected.  A third and hopefully final round of applause please to all those who helped to highlight all of the flaws in this silly idea and let's make sure we keep our boots on their throats until the whole Butterfield gang are ejected southwards back down that lovely newly surfaced bit of the A1(M).  I really do hope they will see the error of their ways although I am sure they will keep bashing away so  we must keep our eyes peeled for the next chapter in this sorry saga.

 

[Elyboy]

4 hours ago, Mick Bratley said:

The shift in power of the council has definitely helped Speedway’s cause. The pressure we have put on AEPG is immense and guess what we’ve only just begun. The next two weeks are going to heap even more pressure on AEPG specifically with one confirmed (and as yet not announced publicly) event and one that I hope will be confirmed early next week. These two events will hit AEPG very hard. There is also another rally in the shopping centre of the ward where the Showground is on Saturday 2nd December.

Also worth pointing out that the document you mention above originates from the PCC Planning Department. Great to see that Speedway is specifically mentioned in LP30, which kicks AEPG in the nuts as they have recently stated in a statement that LP30 does not specifically relate to Speedway. ‘ave it!

 

And clearly states Peterborough speedway  is fit for  purpose 

[Crump99]

23 hours ago, OldNutter said:

I would venture to suggest that this PCC document is an excellent repost to any idea that Butterfield thinks it would be a good idea to appeal to the SoS against the first stage of the application that was so comprehensively rejected.  A third and hopefully final round of applause please to all those who helped to highlight all of the flaws in this silly idea and let's make sure we keep our boots on their throats until the whole Butterfield gang are ejected southwards back down that lovely newly surfaced bit of the A1(M).  I really do hope they will see the error of their ways although I am sure they will keep bashing away so  we must keep our eyes peeled for the next chapter in this sorry saga. 

Glad that I read that again because the first bit answered what I remembered you saying about going to the SoS if their applications are rejected when they eventually get examined by PCC and hopefully thrown out.

Secondly, Butterfield is, IMO, incapable of admitting that he's wrong so will keep chipping away throughout 2024, trying to plug the gaps in AEPG's increasingly unpopular concrete vision and attending more dinners for influential business people that he somehow keeps appearing at trying to make out that he's one of them.

The longer it goes on the worse it looks for EEAS/AEPG so keeping the pressure on as Bratters and co are doing is vital. If they can I think that AEPG will go early. Bearing in mind that it was reported in September that:

• Peterborough Panthers speedway team informed in 2022 that the 2023 season would sadly have to be their last in the Showground grandstand, as that area is expected to be under different ownership by the time the 2024 Speedway season begins.
• Sale of the land is expected to be approved by Spring 2024, again subject to planning approval.
• The spades-in-the-ground date is still unclear until the planning committee's decision. Plans are at the outline planning stage now, which will be referred to several more stages of detailed back-and-forth, no doubt, before anything can physically go ahead. 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Crump99

[Sully]

17 hours ago, OldNutter said:

Bigcatdiary has spotted a document on the planning portal at PCC that all of us should have a quick read of (thanks for that).  It is the one dated 22 Novermber and is listed with all of the objections.  It brings their views out into the public following the meeting for the two planning applications that were turned down recently that should have curdled Butterfield's breakfast cereal.  Probably the most significant bit of it is an overall theme that the tactic of splitting the site into two parts was a monumental mistake.  Far from making the plans slip under the various portal doors, it has actually opened up the whole plan for what it is - an attempt to concrete the showground  in an attempt to make loads of money in exchange for replacing a major Peterborough asset with little more than a thumbnail of silly unnecessary money making pretend sporting venues, a few corner shops and an unnecessary hotel.  Clearly from this document, PCC planners, helped by local councillors lots of active locals and proper sports fans, have finally seen right through the whole charade.

The tenure of that 22 Nov report is that the Local Plan was designed and passed into law with the aim of possibly adding a few new houses (although it is clear here that there are enough already on the planners books anyway) and keeping the showground as a working and very positive asset for the local area.  The loss of all those events that Butterfield and his cronies actively killed off by stopping them booking the showground are highlighted in the report and it is very clear indeed that the PCC planners didn't buy all those sneaky tactics and saw them for what they were - a gigantic con trick.  (applause please!)

There is a section on LP36 that points out that the way the development has been planned does almost certainly not meet the requirements spelled out in LP36 to retain the character and use of the showground with either the two plans or a big single one.  It specifically identifies the loss of the speedway  in this part of their comments.

The section on LP30 is absolutely devastating.  It specifically says that AEPG should not have served notice on the club to take the safety infrastructure and lighting down to make the club non-viable.  This is a loud barbed reference to the fact that making the club vacate the site is the real reason for Peterborough Panthers not being able to complete in speedway next season.  It also highlights the objection by Sport England, so a second round of applause. please.

I would venture to suggest that this PCC document is an excellent repost to any idea that Butterfield thinks it would be a good idea to appeal to the SoS against the first stage of the application that was so comprehensively rejected.  A third and hopefully final round of applause please to all those who helped to highlight all of the flaws in this silly idea and let's make sure we keep our boots on their throats until the whole Butterfield gang are ejected southwards back down that lovely newly surfaced bit of the A1(M).  I really do hope they will see the error of their ways although I am sure they will keep bashing away so  we must keep our eyes peeled for the next chapter in this sorry saga.

Have you a link to this please?