Noelinho Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 The whole point of playoffs is to have a big final at the end, which is better for marketing and provides continued interest rather than things fizzling out. That may not happen in practice, not least given the lack of any real marketing of U.K. speedway, or even any clubs that individually market their product at anything more than the most basic level, but playoffs do provide marketing opportunities that a simple league structure don’t. It’s a lot easier to sell semi finals and finals than it is to sell matchday 12 of 17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 34 minutes ago, Trees said: But they get the extra dosh from the play off meetings ...... Trees - I know that you are a loyal and dedicated speedway fan, yet I'm surprised at how many straws you continue to grasp at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 20 minutes ago, steve roberts said: ...think I've managed to desipher your response but I'm not entirely sure your average Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City & Utd et al fans would neccessarily accept that scenario to be honest but I would be happy to be proved wrong but I guess that will never be answered? No it won't be answered because they don't don't need to do it , But big clubs from other sports did accept it after a couple of seasons .. Speedway fans went crazy about Gp's and Play Offs but after a couple of seasons were soon were ok with it . The bottom line is Speedway in the Uk is a joke but has nothing to do with the play offs as a reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, orion said: No it won't be answered because they don't don't need to do it , But big clubs from other sports did accept it after a couple of seasons .. Speedway fans went crazy about Gp's and Play Offs but after a couple of seasons were soon were ok with it . The bottom line is Speedway in the Uk is a joke but has nothing to do with the play offs as a reason Because the system works perfectly well as it is whereas other sports are continually tinkering with their formats in the hope of attracting mass media/sponsorship attention...football gets that automatically and always will until the money runs out as it already has done for many clubs. Edited September 5, 2022 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 On 9/2/2022 at 4:32 PM, hyderd said: . In Poland, speedway competes with Football and ???????. I think you'll find that Basketball and Handball are as big in Poland as Cricket and Rugby are in Britain. You'll probably look at that statement and think "WHAT? - Handball and Basketball?" - but then if you ask a Pole, he'll way the same about Cricket and Rugby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, steve roberts said: Because the system works perfectly well Yep that is what we all been trying to tell you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, orion said: Yep that is what we all been trying to tell you No that's not what was implied in my last comment or indeed previous posts...my defining question/answer was that football decides its champions by whoever finishes top whereas speedway decides otherwise for better or worse. The detail of the rights and wrongs has long been debated on the forum going back many years regarding the pros and cons of "playoff" systems. Edited September 5, 2022 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Roger Jacobs said: Trees - I know that you are a loyal and dedicated speedway fan, yet I'm surprised at how many straws you continue to grasp at. Hahahaha are you watching on Eurosport tonight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 2 hours ago, uk_martin said: I think you'll find that Basketball and Handball are as big in Poland as Cricket and Rugby are in Britain. You'll probably look at that statement and think "WHAT? - Handball and Basketball?" - but then if you ask a Pole, he'll way the same about Cricket and Rugby. And volleyball in Poland... Plenty of arenas have a fair few thousand watching every week.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 12 hours ago, steve roberts said: I don't actually follow football much now so I bow to your input. Personally I think generally "playoffs" are an advent of American sports whereby your average american requires a sudden death situation and can't comprehend/appreciate a league structured format and all that entails! Playoffs long pre-date the American sports, and were not hugely used even there until the expansion of the various major leagues from the 1960s onwards. Baseball hardly used them beyond the World Series being a 'playoff' between rival leagues until expansion and the need for divisional structures and unbalanced schedules made this a necessity. American football plays so few games that there wasn't much choice once the NFL (and later AFL) expanded beyond a handful of teams. I think the Stanley Cup was again a 'playoff' between the champions of what were considered major leagues at any given moment (and these changed from time-to-time). In the meantime, I think the County Cricket Championship effectively had playoffs back in the 19th Century, Australian Rules certainly has always featured them, Rugby League had them years ago too. Rugby Union - at least in England - didn't even have leagues until the 1980s, as they were considered too radical for the old farts running the sport at the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 13 hours ago, steve roberts said: ...and you have to ask the question why has football avoided going down that route? Would football fans except that scenario? Playoff systems are relatively uncommon in Europe, but have been a feature of Latin American football for decades where they seem to be accepted. Going back in time, I believe Germany also had a playoff system in the pre-Bundesliga era when teams played in regional leagues. Why it never happened in England is an interesting question, but possibly because the FA Cup was a major competition that provided the culmination to the season at one time. However, football fans would accept whatever they're used to, just the same as the fans in any sport. Fans would no doubt grumble initially, but over time would no doubt come to accept the system in the same way that the Superbowl, World Series, AFL/NRL Grand Finals are seen as important events. 13 hours ago, steve roberts said: Of course promotion playoffs have been the norm for many years now but I think I am right in saying that those who finish top in the various leagues (Championship, One & Two) are still crowned champions? Only those immediately below that are involved in playoffs to decide on who gets promoted? The top two (three from Division 2) teams are automatically promoted. 3rd to 6th (4th to 7th in Division 2) playoff for the remaining promotion spot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 11 hours ago, Trees said: Hahahaha are you watching on Eurosport tonight? Yes - it was a decent meeting. Witches earned a draw - and then they had the Stupid Heat ... the most pointless rule since the Tactical Joker. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 40 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said: Playoffs long pre-date the American sports, and were not hugely used even there until the expansion of the various major leagues from the 1960s onwards. Baseball hardly used them beyond the World Series being a 'playoff' between rival leagues until expansion and the need for divisional structures and unbalanced schedules made this a necessity. American football plays so few games that there wasn't much choice once the NFL (and later AFL) expanded beyond a handful of teams. I think the Stanley Cup was again a 'playoff' between the champions of what were considered major leagues at any given moment (and these changed from time-to-time). In the meantime, I think the County Cricket Championship effectively had playoffs back in the 19th Century, Australian Rules certainly has always featured them, Rugby League had them years ago too. Rugby Union - at least in England - didn't even have leagues until the 1980s, as they were considered too radical for the old farts running the sport at the time! Interesting but I would argue that the coverage of American Football expecially in this country has influenced people's perception regarding "play-off" scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 36 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: Yes - it was a decent meeting. Witches earned a draw - and then they had the Stupid Heat ... the most pointless rule since the Tactical Joker. I think I'm with you on that one, it's most certainly for the TV ...... was a good meeting til that point as you say ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 42 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: Yes - it was a decent meeting. Witches earned a draw - and then they had the Stupid Heat ... the most pointless rule since the Tactical Joker. Ipswich drew at Peterborough and got 3 points, Sheffield achieved the same result and got 1 point because of some stupid rule, speedway matches are over a maximum of 15 heats not 16 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 1 minute ago, The Third Man said: Ipswich drew at Peterborough and got 3 points, Sheffield achieved the same result and got 1 point because of some stupid rule, speedway matches are over a maximum of 15 heats not 16 Personally I preferred the old aggregate bonus point system...far easier and simpler to understand! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 Well any team that scores 45 points and goes home with zero league points has to feel gutted, almost cheated, may I say. On the subject of the scoring system overall, the system immediately prior to the introduction of this super heat may be more complicated than the aggregate point idea. However, I always felt that despite the slight difficulty for the "uninitiated", it was a very fair system. The aggregate point system is simpler, but the two teams that compete in the "second leg" could easily be a totally different groups of riders (new signings, guests, heavens forbid, etc.) and it could be weeks (or even months) between the two legs. For me, it's a case of, it ain't broke, don't fix it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Irving Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 1 hour ago, The Third Man said: Ipswich drew at Peterborough and got 3 points, Sheffield achieved the same result and got 1 point because of some stupid rule, speedway matches are over a maximum of 15 heats not 16 Well that just isn’t true this season is it? Sheffield had just as much opportunity to gain 3 points as Ipswich did last night, but they failed. That’s their problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 2 hours ago, steve roberts said: Personally I preferred the old aggregate bonus point system...far easier and simpler to understand! There is an argument for going back to a simpler system but it did have the effect of teams being built for home advantage. Since the current system came about it has seen a lot closer results imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 (edited) Some of the comments on here are unreal The rules are quite clear that if the match is a draw a super heat will take place So no one has been robbed as everyone understands the rules before the match ... the match is not over set over 15 heats etc etc.as it can be 16 if needed .I know its going to upset a lot of people but last was a great meeting and the super heat was fantastic giving the fans even more value for there money.. I think this topic should be changed to British Fans are a joke.. Edited September 6, 2022 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.