British speedway is a joke.

[GeneralMelchett]

  On 9/6/2022 at 5:57 PM, Humphrey Appleby said:

I honestly think that even if speedway had been the best run sport in the world, it would still have been in decline. All sorts of land and environmental pressures, its demographic, the rise of home entertainment, the rise of the Great Football God and competition from other sports...

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At my parents my dad had a programme from a world final in the 1950s - the promotors message could almost apply to day all about crucial decisions being needed over the winter etc etc and that everyone had to come together for the good of the sport 

[moxey63]

  On 9/6/2022 at 5:56 PM, GeneralMelchett said:

The lunacy of Swindon’s refusal to be relegated was that they voluntarily dropped down a couple of seasons later if I recall!! 
 

as an Arena fan it was great and ushered in our most successful era. 
 

i have always felt in order to be taken seriously it should be in place - I just don’t think it’s workable as evidenced in the 90s 

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Yes, Swindon went into Division Two in 1993, two years after refusing to do it. Arena had a decent side in the second division and were quite entertaining in the top flight when they came up. I have one of Andy Galvin's race jackets from one of those early years from the 90s. 

[orion]

  On 9/6/2022 at 5:42 PM, steve roberts said:

...trouble is tinkering with the rules doesn't translate into attracting bigger crowds. If anything it has proved opposite in that it tends to alienate the converted who drift away from the sport and are not replaced by a new fan base.

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Its a matter of a opinion crowds could have been worst if the rules had not changed .. i dont think play offs , super heats have had little effect on crowds going down.  the moment Poland was the biggest show in town the uk was in trouble and could never be the same again 

Its pretty simple the crowds have dropped as the standard of rider has dropped ,

 

[bigcatdiary]

  On 9/6/2022 at 4:00 PM, Arch Stanton said:

You have no way of knowing if it’s a popular rule or not. A few loud voices on the BSF isn’t a true representation of whether it’s favoured by a majority or minority of match/meeting going supporters. Only a survey at the gates of stadiums would give a true reflection and it would be interesting to do and see the results actually. 

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And when was the last time the sports management asked for the views or ideas from the supporters.

 

 

[GeneralMelchett]

  On 9/6/2022 at 6:08 PM, moxey63 said:

Yes, Swindon went into Division Two in 1993, two years after refusing to do it. Arena had a decent side in the second division and were quite entertaining in the top flight when they came up. I have one of Andy Galvin's race jackets from one of those early years from the 90s. 

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Good times -  crowds were pretty solid in that period - Galvin never quite the same after his bad leg break but we had a good side back then 

[GeneralMelchett]

  On 9/6/2022 at 6:11 PM, bigcatdiary said:

And when was the last time the sports management asked for the views or ideas from the supporters.

 

 

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Well if they ever want a thorough analysis of their shortcomings all they need to do is come in here 

[steve roberts]

  On 9/6/2022 at 6:10 PM, orion said:

Its a matter of a opinion crowds could have been worst if the rules had not changed .. i dont think play offs , super heats have had little effect on crowds going down.  the moment Poland was the biggest show in town the uk was in trouble and could never be the same again 

Its pretty simple the crowds have dropped as the standard of rider has dropped ,

 

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...I would tend to agree but continually tinkering with the rules as the speedway authorities tend to do with the mad-cap idea it will boost crowd figures are living in cloud cuckoo. Speedway's lack of apparent success goes far deeper as Humph has indicated in an earlier post.

[steve roberts]

  On 9/6/2022 at 5:56 PM, GeneralMelchett said:

The lunacy of Swindon’s refusal to be relegated was that they voluntarily dropped down a couple of seasons later if I recall!! 
 

as an Arena fan it was great and ushered in our most successful era. 
 

i have always felt in order to be taken seriously it should be in place - I just don’t think it’s workable as evidenced in the 90s 

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Wasn't there some sort of rule set that the Second tier couldn't have more teams than the upper hence why Swindon hung onto their Division One status although they did succumb the next season?

[GeneralMelchett]

  On 9/6/2022 at 6:29 PM, steve roberts said:

Wasn't there some sort of rule set that the Second tier couldn't have more teams than the upper hence why Swindon hung onto their Division One status although they did succumb the next season?

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I don’t remember it that way - but it was about  30 years ago now / I seem to remember that they said that dropping down would damage crowds and jeopardise their business - happy to be corrected if that’s wrong from anyone else who can remember at the time.

[steve roberts]

  On 9/6/2022 at 5:58 PM, GeneralMelchett said:

It was certainly very popular on the terraces the night it was run at Foxhall ( and anyone who says or claims it wasn’t either was not there or is lying) - maybe it might have been different had it not gone the way it did who knows! 
 

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We had great attendances at Cowley during the middle/late eighties but that was down mainly to Hans Nielsen who brought much needed professionalism to Oxford something that had been sadly lacking. Infact one of our most highly attended domestic meetings was the Cup Final against John Berry's "mob" which had everything...a tremedous night of high drama and the right result if you were a "Cheetah's" fan!

[GeneralMelchett]

  On 9/6/2022 at 6:34 PM, steve roberts said:

We had great attendances at Cowley during the middle/late eighties but that was down mainly to Hans Nielsen who brought much needed professionalism to Oxford something that had been sadly lacking. Infact one of our most highly attended domestic meetings was the Cup Final against John Berry's "mob" which had everything...a tremedous night of high drama and the right result if you were a "Cheetah's" fan!

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I read Berry’s book on promoting - very interesting if you haven’t seen a copy try and get one! Yes I have photos taken from my various trips with my dad to tracks In the late 80s and 90s and one thing that is really noticeable is the crowds - plus the obligatory trip to Coventry for the British Final in front of the usual full house! Special days for me certainly 

[steve roberts]

  On 9/6/2022 at 6:39 PM, GeneralMelchett said:

I read Berry’s book on promoting - very interesting if you haven’t seen a copy try and get one! Yes I have photos taken from my various trips with my dad to tracks In the late 80s and 90s and one thing that is really noticeable is the crowds - plus the obligatory trip to Coventry for the British Final in front of the usual full house! Special days for me certainly 

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Yes I have both of John's books...a great read. I even corresponded with him over "money changing hands" during a meeting which my uncle attended and witnessed. John mentioned the story in his first book and I collaborated the incident which he acknowledged in his second book.

[False dawn]

  On 9/6/2022 at 4:00 PM, Arch Stanton said:

You have no way of knowing if it’s a popular rule or not. A few loud voices on the BSF isn’t a true representation of whether it’s favoured by a majority or minority of match/meeting going supporters. Only a survey at the gates of stadiums would give a true reflection and it would be interesting to do and see the results actually. 

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I can make my own mind up as to what is fair. I participate on this forum, but the members don't tell me what to think. I'm happy to debate issues and can be pursuaded by rational argument. But to suggest that a few loud voices form my opinon for me is insulting. Indeed, such "loud voices" are more likely to make me firmly fixed in my own opinions. To convince you further, I frequently attend speedway meetings and talk to many fans, home and away. I also regularly attend supporters club meeting and there engage not only with fellow fans but honoured guests, such as riders (former and current), promoters and other influential leaders in our sport. 

Please be careful when you say I "have no way of knowing if it’s a popular rule or not".

[mikebv]

  On 9/6/2022 at 5:06 PM, moxey63 said:

I think speedway would be more interesting if it ditched the play-offs and introduced a promotion/relegation system, a proper one. It has been tried, I know, in the early 90s, but Swindon had a mardy and complained because they didn't want to be relegated, with murmurs about closing down if they did.

I have fond memories of that 1991 season, Eastbourne coming to Belle Vue late-on, fighting relegation. Andy Grahame rocketed to an 18-point maximum for the Dons, his career enjoying a resurgence. I'd say that match held more interest than what the playoffs do now. It was after a season's toil in the league, not a top-four knockout competition in which a lot depends on how one team goes at the other's track.

 Oxford were also down there, and their visit to Kirky Lane held a lot of interest, too. There was a belief that promotion and relegation was going to work. But then Swindon threw a tantrum and things began to break down.

Poole's Mervyn Stewkesbury had spent ages on the plan. But none of the clubs who ended up in the relegation spot or the second division promotion place league winners) expected to finish there, I suppose, and didn't think they'd have to be changing leagues any time soon. Yes, it was about costs, but the standard of riders was so much higher than it is now. 

Looking at the Speedway Star, you can't tell much difference now between the strength of the two leagues. Having promotion/relegation would add interest with the need of having extra matches outside the round-robin of the league table to keep interest alive and promoters trying to take punters' cash as far as you can to the wire by having what are basically just six extra matches that have no connection with what's gone before.

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Having something riding on all meetings would help maintain interest 100%...

However relegation cannot happen with so many DU's...

You could currently get your own teams relagated and also promoted....  

[IainB]

  On 9/6/2022 at 6:11 PM, bigcatdiary said:

And when was the last time the sports management asked for the views or ideas from the supporters.

 

 

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about 2 or 3 weeks ago on a Twitter poll about the CL points scoring system

[Wolfie456]

Nobody seems to have mentioned anything about the absolute farce in the Polish play offs with Torun losing in quarter final but going through into semi final as a lucky loser how ridiculous is that

[Roger Jacobs]

  On 9/7/2022 at 12:37 PM, Wolfie456 said:

Nobody seems to have mentioned anything about the absolute farce in the Polish play offs with Torun losing in quarter final but going through into semi final as a lucky loser how ridiculous is that

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It's not British speedway.

[Wolfie456]

  On 9/7/2022 at 12:44 PM, Roger Jacobs said:

It's not British speedway.

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Yes but why keep knocking our leagues.Others aren't so perfect 

[Roger Jacobs]

  On 9/7/2022 at 1:07 PM, Wolfie456 said:

Yes but why keep knocking our leagues.Others aren't so perfect 

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Because we care about British Speedway, but don't care about Poland, Sweden, etc.

 

[steve roberts]

  On 9/7/2022 at 12:44 PM, Roger Jacobs said:

It's not British speedway.

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...knowing the BSPA they are just as likely to introduce such a ruling here in their continual "blind alley".