British speedway is a joke.

[Midland Red]

I remember attending Brandon every Saturday night (stock cars excepted), to see the speedway racing

I’d go most Tuesdays to Blackbird Road, to see the speedway

I enjoyed Bees winning, I enjoyed visiting teams winning at Leicester, but really it didn’t matter, as I’d enjoy the action from the 13 heat match and the second half, which I always stayed for

League, challenge, Midland Cup matches, plus World and Midland Championship qualifiers, Tests and other individual meetings

This attitude doesn’t seem to prevail any longer, judging by the comments on BSF - all this b0llocks about play-offs, rider changes, with journeymen “team members” - fans identified with “their riders” season after season, now it’s hardly match after match

Can’t remember many changes for the better since “the good old days”

[False dawn]

3 hours ago, orion said:

Some of the comments on here are unreal The rules are quite clear that if the match is a draw a super heat will take place So no one has been  robbed  as everyone understands the rules before the match ... the match is not over set over 15 heats etc etc.as it can be 16 if needed .I know its going to upset a lot of people but last was a  great meeting and the  super  heat was fantastic giving the fans even more value for there money.. I think this topic should be changed  to British Fans are a joke..

The rules are quite clear. That doesn't make them fair, sensible or popular.

[steve roberts]

49 minutes ago, False dawn said:

The rules are quite clear. That doesn't make them fair, sensible or popular.

...problem is that those in "control" feel the need to constantly change the rules/race format/points scored/points limits etc etc on an all too regular basis.

Edited September 6, 2022 by steve roberts

[steve roberts]

4 hours ago, orion said:

Some of the comments on here are unreal The rules are quite clear that if the match is a draw a super heat will take place So no one has been  robbed  as everyone understands the rules before the match ... the match is not over set over 15 heats etc etc.as it can be 16 if needed .I know its going to upset a lot of people but last was a  great meeting and the  super  heat was fantastic giving the fans even more value for there money.. I think this topic should be changed  to British Fans are a joke..

I've attended meetings whereby even referees don't know that certain rules have been contravened/manipulated and frantic phone calls have had to be made to clear up any "misunderstanding" and/or "gamesmanship" by opposite Team Managers so what chance do fans have in some of the more extreme instances?

Edited September 6, 2022 by steve roberts

[steve roberts]

4 hours ago, Midland Red said:

I remember attending Brandon every Saturday night (stock cars excepted), to see the speedway racing

I’d go most Tuesdays to Blackbird Road, to see the speedway

I enjoyed Bees winning, I enjoyed visiting teams winning at Leicester, but really it didn’t matter, as I’d enjoy the action from the 13 heat match and the second half, which I always stayed for

League, challenge, Midland Cup matches, plus World and Midland Championship qualifiers, Tests and other individual meetings

This attitude doesn’t seem to prevail any longer, judging by the comments on BSF - all this b0llocks about play-offs, rider changes, with journeymen “team members” - fans identified with “their riders” season after season, now it’s hardly match after match

Can’t remember many changes for the better since “the good old days”

Funny when us "old farts" talk about the old days when thousands attended the sport and yet with all the constant rule changing that happens year after year speedway sees attendance figures in their hundreds?

[Arch Stanton]

1 hour ago, False dawn said:

The rules are quite clear. That doesn't make them fair, sensible or popular.

You have no way of knowing if it’s a popular rule or not. A few loud voices on the BSF isn’t a true representation of whether it’s favoured by a majority or minority of match/meeting going supporters. Only a survey at the gates of stadiums would give a true reflection and it would be interesting to do and see the results actually. 

[steve roberts]

17 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

You have no way of knowing if it’s a popular rule or not. A few loud voices on the BSF isn’t a true representation of whether it’s favoured by a majority or minority of match/meeting going supporters. Only a survey at the gates of stadiums would give a true reflection and it would be interesting to do and see the results actually. 

I remember Oxford carrying out a survey (Steve Purchase days?) asking relevant questions although I can't remember what they were now! When Chris Shears ran a full blown Second Half it proved popular with the fans but he had his wrist slapped by the authorities as thet didn't wish it to set a precedence...never mind what the fans thought!

[orion]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

I've attended meetings whereby even referees don't know that certain rules have been contravened/manipulated and frantic phone calls have had to be made to clear up any "misunderstanding" and/or "gamesmanship" by opposite Team Managers so what chance do fans have in some of the more extreme instances?

This is not  an extreme instance thou..They all know this rule  . What instances are you talking about say in the last  15 years.

Edited September 6, 2022 by orion

[cowboy cookie returns?]

8 hours ago, Trees said:

I think I'm with you on that one, it's most certainly for the TV ...... was a good meeting til that point as you say .....

What do you mean? The super heat was by far the best race of the night in terms of passing 

[moxey63]

I think speedway would be more interesting if it ditched the play-offs and introduced a promotion/relegation system, a proper one. It has been tried, I know, in the early 90s, but Swindon had a mardy and complained because they didn't want to be relegated, with murmurs about closing down if they did.

I have fond memories of that 1991 season, Eastbourne coming to Belle Vue late-on, fighting relegation. Andy Grahame rocketed to an 18-point maximum for the Dons, his career enjoying a resurgence. I'd say that match held more interest than what the playoffs do now. It was after a season's toil in the league, not a top-four knockout competition in which a lot depends on how one team goes at the other's track.

 Oxford were also down there, and their visit to Kirky Lane held a lot of interest, too. There was a belief that promotion and relegation was going to work. But then Swindon threw a tantrum and things began to break down.

Poole's Mervyn Stewkesbury had spent ages on the plan. But none of the clubs who ended up in the relegation spot or the second division promotion place league winners) expected to finish there, I suppose, and didn't think they'd have to be changing leagues any time soon. Yes, it was about costs, but the standard of riders was so much higher than it is now. 

Looking at the Speedway Star, you can't tell much difference now between the strength of the two leagues. Having promotion/relegation would add interest with the need of having extra matches outside the round-robin of the league table to keep interest alive and promoters trying to take punters' cash as far as you can to the wire by having what are basically just six extra matches that have no connection with what's gone before.

Edited September 6, 2022 by moxey63

[Bagpuss]

It's not my cup of tea and personally I'd prefer the home team to get one point and the awy team two as I liked that system, however you could see the benefits of it last night and the excitement it added to the end of the meeting. Its not entirely dissimilar to Play Offs, they are more often than not exciting and dramatic but there's a strong argument that its not the fairest system. People are entitled to not like superheats or PO's but for a sport that is struggling anything which can make things more entertaining or attract bigger crowds can't be a bad thing in terms of the bigger picture. But I respect the traditionalists viewpoint too.

[steve roberts]

42 minutes ago, orion said:

This is not  an extreme instance thou..They all know this rule  . What instances are you talking about say in the last  15 years.

...not sure why you are implying on 15 years however we can all quote wrongly declared reserve replacement rides as well as confused R/R facilities (especially when the stipulation was altered based upon eligibilty of replacement riders based on average) whereby points have been deducted often months after a match has taken place. Guest riders declared with the full knowledge of the referee despite their average being too high or within the 14 day rule despite being printed in the programme requiring the intervention of the promoter. There was a high profile example of King's Lynn declaring "guest" Danny Bird as a replacement for Lee Redmond at Eastbourne and after an objection was placed by the "Eagles" management King's Lynn declined to ride gifting the "Eagles" a whitewash win (75-0) all with the full knowledge of the referee who obviously couldn't make a decision or indeed interpreted the rules incorrectly. The "Top Scorers" declared race often caused confusion and riders were declared incorrectly. Oxford once declared Alistair Stevens as a replacement ride and was about to start a race in full view of the referee until John Berry had to remind him that he had already had his full quota of rides...just a few examples off the top of my head!

Edited September 6, 2022 by steve roberts

[steve roberts]

30 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

It's not my cup of tea and personally I'd prefer the home team to get one point and the awy team two as I liked that system, however you could see the benefits of it last night and the excitement it added to the end of the meeting. Its not entirely dissimilar to Play Offs, they are more often than not exciting and dramatic but there's a strong argument that its not the fairest system. People are entitled to not like superheats or PO's but for a sport that is struggling anything which can make things more entertaining or attract bigger crowds can't be a bad thing in terms of the bigger picture. But I respect the traditionalists viewpoint too.

...trouble is tinkering with the rules doesn't translate into attracting bigger crowds. If anything it has proved opposite in that it tends to alienate the converted who drift away from the sport and are not replaced by a new fan base.

[orion]

8 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...not sure why you are implying on 15 years however we can all quote wrongly declared reserve replacement rides as well as confused R/R facilities (especially when the stipulation was altered based upon eligibilty of replacement riders based on average) whereby points have been deducted often months after a match has taken place. Guest riders declared with the full knowledge of the referee despite their average being too high or within the 14 day rule despite being printed in the programme requiring the intervention of the promoter. There was a high profile example of King's Lynn declaring "guest" Danny Bird as a replacement for Lee Redmond at Eastbourne and after an objection was placed by the "Eagles" management King's Lynn declined to ride gifting the "Eagles" a whitewash win (75-0) all with the full knowledge of the referee who obviously couldn't make a decision or indeed interpreted the rules incorrectly. The "Top Scorers" declared race often caused confusion and riders were declared incorrectly. Oxford once declared Alistair Stevens as a replacement ride and was about to start a race in full view of the referee until John Berry had to remind him that he had already had his full quota of rides...just a few examples off the top of my head!

So  people disagree about the rules..Who disagreed last night ? No one 

[Bagpuss]

3 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...trouble is tinkering with the rules doesn't translate into attracting bigger crowds. If anything it has proved opposite in that it tends to alienate the converted who drift away from the sport and are not replaced by a new fan base.

I was referring to Play Offs, there is no doubt that in isolation they attract big crowds (probably the biggest) each year.

[steve roberts]

2 minutes ago, orion said:

So  people disagree about the rules..Who disagreed last night ? No one 

I was discussing the wider picture wherby some rules are interpreted differently making it difficult for fans, never mind some referees/promoters, grasping the reality.

[steve roberts]

2 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

I was referring to Play Offs, there is no doubt that in isolation they attract big crowds (probably the biggest) each year.

I'm sure that's the case but it's sad that those same fans aren't attracted to attend meetings throughout the season and thereby improving the sports standing.

[GeneralMelchett]

45 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

I think speedway would be more interesting if it ditched the play-offs and introduced a promotion/relegation system, a proper one. It has been tried, I know, in the early 90s, but Swindon had a mardy and complained because they didn't want to be relegated, with murmurs about closing down if they did.

I have fond memories of that 1991 season, Eastbourne coming to Belle Vue late-on, fighting relegation. Andy Grahame rocketed to an 18-point maximum for the Dons, his career enjoying a resurgence. I'd say that match held more interest than what the playoffs do now. It was after a season's toil in the league, not a top-four knockout competition in which a lot depends on how one team goes at the other's track.

 Oxford were also down there, and their visit to Kirky Lane held a lot of interest, too. There was a belief that promotion and relegation was going to work. But then Swindon threw a tantrum and things began to break down.

The lunacy of Swindon’s refusal to be relegated was that they voluntarily dropped down a couple of seasons later if I recall!! 
 

as an Arena fan it was great and ushered in our most successful era. 
 

i have always felt in order to be taken seriously it should be in place - I just don’t think it’s workable as evidenced in the 90s 

[Humphrey Appleby]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Funny when us "old farts" talk about the old days when thousands attended the sport and yet with all the constant rule changing that happens year after year speedway sees attendance figures in their hundreds?

I honestly think that even if speedway had been the best run sport in the world, it would still have been in decline. All sorts of land and environmental pressures, its demographic, the rise of home entertainment, the rise of the Great Football God and competition from other sports...

[GeneralMelchett]

1 hour ago, Arch Stanton said:

You have no way of knowing if it’s a popular rule or not. A few loud voices on the BSF isn’t a true representation of whether it’s favoured by a majority or minority of match/meeting going supporters. Only a survey at the gates of stadiums would give a true reflection and it would be interesting to do and see the results actually. 

It was certainly very popular on the terraces the night it was run at Foxhall ( and anyone who says or claims it wasn’t either was not there or is lying) - maybe it might have been different had it not gone the way it did who knows!