Disqualification alternative

[Vince]

We quite often see riders disqualified following a crash when nobody is really at fault but the rules say somebody has to go.

Maybe an alternative would be to start the rider/s at fault from a penalty line as they do in flat track. Would keep 4 riders in the race and make for more entertainment than a 3 rider race.

Could even go the whole flat track route where from the second lap on any crash sees the riders line up slightly staggered in the order they were when the race was stopped and the culprit 30 yards past the back rider.

[IainB]

21 minutes ago, Vince said:

We quite often see riders disqualified following a crash when nobody is really at fault but the rules say somebody has to go.

Maybe an alternative would be to start the rider/s at fault from a penalty line as they do in flat track. Would keep 4 riders in the race and make for more entertainment than a 3 rider race.

Could even go the whole flat track route where from the second lap on any crash sees the riders line up slightly staggered in the order they were when the race was stopped and the culprit 30 yards past the back rider.

There's always somebody at fault... it's just a matter of who it is in the refs opinion, that works fine for me

[ONTWOMINUTES]

18 minutes ago, iainb said:

There's always somebody at fault... it's just a matter of who it is in the refs opinion, that works fine for me

Also people winge about hold ups and meetings taking forever to finish - surely this idea of staggered restarts would see meetings finish in the early hours next day. But speedway does need a shake up in some way. 

[arnieg]

In a few Czech events (and amateur meetings at Iwade/Lydd) the excluded rider can go back in the rerun, but his score doesn't count. 

[steve roberts]

46 minutes ago, iainb said:

There's always somebody at fault... it's just a matter of who it is in the refs opinion, that works fine for me

As much as we swear and curse at the ref I would always agree that his decision is final. Just reading "Cloughie's" excellent autobiography again and he mentions the over emphasise of "experts" and "analyists" condemning the referee with the luxury of having instant replies to indulge themselves with.

[IainB]

3 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

As much as we swear and curse at the ref I would always agree that his decision is final. Just reading "Cloughie's" excellent autobiography again and he mentions the over emphasise of "experts" and "analyists" condemning the referee with the luxury of having instant replies to indulge themselves with.

Look at VAR in football... i don't think it's added anything to the game

[tyretrax]

Don't think the ref HAS to disqualify someone.

[steve roberts]

36 minutes ago, iainb said:

Look at VAR in football... i don't think it's added anything to the game

I used to watch American Football and the game was often held up as they viewed instant replays...but, then again, watching American Football "live" can often be a trial in itself with all the gaps between plays and/or adverts!

[Bavarian]

3 hours ago, tyretrax said:

Don't think the ref HAS to disqualify someone.

Oh yes he has when the race is stopped, unless the incidend had occured on the first corner after the start.

Isn't it annoying in so-called 50/50 situations that the ref has to exclude one rider, even though it would be much fairer to put them both back 15m behind and let them take part in the re-run? 

[tyretrax]

1 hour ago, Bavarian said:

Oh yes he has when the race is stopped, unless the incidend had occured on the first corner after the start.

Isn't it annoying in so-called 50/50 situations that the ref has to exclude one rider, even though it would be much fairer to put them both back 15m behind and let them take part in the re-run? 

Maybe someone with a rule book could settle it,  I don't think someone has to be put out.

[NeilWatson]

4 hours ago, tyretrax said:

Maybe someone with a rule book could settle it,  I don't think someone has to be put out.

SR 011.1.11 Primary Cause of Stoppage
The only person with the power to stop a heat is the Referee.
When a heat is stopped, the Referee shall disqualify the rider, who in their opinion is the primary cause of the stoppage.

[Vince]

11 hours ago, iainb said:

There's always somebody at fault... it's just a matter of who it is in the refs opinion, that works fine for me

I disagree, we often see a rider go for a gap and the outside rider cut down. Neither are really at fault or could always do anything to avoid a collision. 

[Vince]

10 hours ago, ONTWOMINUTES said:

Also people winge about hold ups and meetings taking forever to finish - surely this idea of staggered restarts would see meetings finish in the early hours next day. But speedway does need a shake up in some way. 

Lining 11 riders up and putting 1 on the penalty line takes a couple of minutes. 3 riders would take 20 seconds max

[IainB]

31 minutes ago, Vince said:

Lining 11 riders up and putting 1 on the penalty line takes a couple of minutes. 3 riders would take 20 seconds max

How long to actually run the heat though, if you're removing the rules it'll be carnage and every race could take several attempts to run, not to mention the atrictian rate of the riders... every race could be like Lawson vs MPT (even though Lawson was clearly at fault)

[IainB]

11 hours ago, ONTWOMINUTES said:

Also people winge about hold ups and meetings taking forever to finish - surely this idea of staggered restarts would see meetings finish in the early hours next day. But speedway does need a shake up in some way. 

Even your username annoys me... can't you change it to ONONEMINUTE? There's really no reason for 2 minutes, especially for restarts 

[mc131]

1 hour ago, Vince said:

I disagree, we often see a rider go for a gap and the outside rider cut down. Neither are really at fault or could always do anything to avoid a collision. 

But if there is a collision somebody is at fault 

Edited August 28, 2022 by mc131

[ONTWOMINUTES]

49 minutes ago, iainb said:

Even your username annoys me... can't you change it to ONONEMINUTE? There's really no reason for 2 minutes, especially for restarts 

I'll see what I can do, just for you haha

[Vince]

11 hours ago, mc131 said:

But if there is a collision somebody is at fault 

I don't think so, quite often see collisions where neither rider could have done anything different and still be racing. Generally the rider on the inside clips another rider and gets excluded. But very often there was a gap there when he started the pass but the rider in front changes line slightly. 

Neither one is at fault. 

[IainB]

12 minutes ago, Vince said:

I don't think so, quite often see collisions where neither rider could have done anything different and still be racing. Generally the rider on the inside clips another rider and gets excluded. But very often there was a gap there when he started the pass but the rider in front changes line slightly. 

Neither one is at fault. 

Try telling that to your car insurance company!

[Technik]

At times some crashes could be declared as "A racing incident" where no fault can be decided. To call all riders back for a re-run maybe acceptable if it is the two lead riders but what if it is for 3rd & 4th place then in the re-run one of them wins. We have to accept that we make a rule & stick with it, that rule should not be adapted to suit any one of a number of possible scenarios. The scenario must fall within the rule & currently that rule calls for the primary offender to be disqualified.

My overall view is that a large percentage of spectators support the home team & only want to see all 4 re-start if it is their rider that is missing where if it should be a visitor then they are more than happy with a three rider race