Panthers v Stars 25/08/22

[IainB]

7 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

It's not new though as various lights have been out for ages. It's just that last night it seemed to be as bad as I'd seen it. It's a health and safety issue at the end of the day so cost doesn't usually come in to it and it's an on the day issue, irrespective of what happens next year. If there was a big crash on bend 4 & someone said that they didn't see a rider or bike for instance, imagine the problem that the 3 lights being out covering that area could cause? I guess everything is above board though as the ref is in charge, he says go and it's on his shoulders if it goes wrong.

I wonder if the ref carries a light meter like the umpires in cricket? Bad light stopped play... and the cricketers go off for bad light when when the ground has floodlights!

[tellboy]

33 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said:

If they had raced on the track they produced it after a lot of work it probably would have done but clearly they decided otherwise.

The circuit they raced was as slick as sandpaper and wasn’t conducive to good racing, just gate and go.

But if that’s what your used too and like then fair enough but at Peterborough we like proper racing.

As ScottCampos said the track wasn't slick it was most definitely grippy apart from probably midway to the fence.That's why if you kept your bike under control from inside to nearly midway you were on the fastest line.Some of the bikes coming off the 2nd bend were really getting the grip.I think the grip in the track reflected in some of the times getting near the track record.

[Bald Bloke]

1 hour ago, bigcatdiary said:

If they had raced on the track they produced it after a lot of work it probably would have done but clearly they decided otherwise.

The circuit they raced was as slick as sandpaper and wasn’t conducive to good racing, just gate and go.

But if that’s what your used too and like then fair enough but at Peterborough we like proper racing.

Gate and go don't always mean slick..  It can mean that the inside to mid track was really grippy so there's no / little advantage  using the outside line. As it seems in this case going by the race times. I wasn't there but it looks like Buster did a great job considering the rain that had fallen.

[Roger Jacobs]

2 hours ago, bigcatdiary said:

That was being talked about last, but as they say until a contract is fully finalised for next year they are not going to replace lights unless they have to because of cost

Safety isn't a cost?!

[IainB]

Were the juniors abandoned after the main meeting? I stayed for the first couple, well lap 1, bend 2 of the rerun of heat 2

[Crump99]

3 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said:

Safety isn't a cost?!

Must be ok though as it wouldn't go ahead anyway? The original lighting was only upgraded 20 years ago when Sky started and it was darker then than it is now with a 3rd of the lights out. I take & agree the point though.

Who was on the stand lights as well last night? Talk about trigger happy & inconsistent

[Crump99]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

I wonder if the ref carries a light meter like the umpires in cricket? Bad light stopped play... and the cricketers go off for bad light when when the ground has floodlights!

He needs something because his eyes are not that good. He missed both of Jorgenson's blindingly obvious jump starts.

[bigcatdiary]

1 hour ago, Bald Bloke said:

Gate and go don't always mean slick..  It can mean that the inside to mid track was really grippy so there's no / little advantage  using the outside line. As it seems in this case going by the race times. I wasn't there but it looks like Buster did a great job considering the rain that had fallen.

 

Yet again the inside was the place to be if you made the gate with very little chance of anyone making an outside pass.

 I am sure Kings Lynn were delighted, Not sure Peterborough fans would be of the same opinion.

Fast race times generally mean a grippy white line, a trapping contest and a follow the leader from start to finish.

 

[NeilWatson]

6 hours ago, iainb said:

I can't understand why there is not a league policy regarding postponements and cancelations as it's such a contentious issue. Just in the last week or so we've had Poole vs Redcar doing everything to get a meeting on, KL calling a meeting off over 24 hours in advance based on an incorrect weather forecast of just showers, Plymouth cancelling in front of a packed crowd without a wheel being turned and Peterborough running last night when in all probability they should have cancelled. There is just no consistency.

I posted my previous thoughts about a cancellation policy that should be adhered to so everybody knows where they stand. Now I've had a proper chance to think about it, this is probably what I should have posted:

1 No meeting to be called off until the day of the meeting (9am, 10am whatever... not a day or days in advance)

2 The meeting should be called as "on" or "off" 90 minutes before the start time at which time the ref, both team managers and both team captains have passed the track as "fit for racing for the scheduled start time". As long as there is no more "weather" in the next 90 minutes the meeting should commence at the scheduled start time or the fixture is abandoned or run as an unofficial fixture and some kind of points penalty awarded.

I've explained why a 'one size fits all' policy would not work.

To speak to your proposal:

1 - on a Saturday afternoon a major fire destroys all electricity supply to Monmore Green, but Wolves can't postpone until the Monday morning.

2 - In the case you describe the meeting would be postponed, not abandoned, and no further racing is permitted on the track that day.

[IainB]

15 hours ago, NeilWatson said:

I've explained why a 'one size fits all' policy would not work.

To speak to your proposal:

1 - on a Saturday afternoon a major fire destroys all electricity supply to Monmore Green, but Wolves can't postpone until the Monday morning.

2 - In the case you describe the meeting would be postponed, not abandoned, and no further racing is permitted on the track that day.

OK, you're getting into the realms of fantasy now... how about an alien invasion on the Saturday morning? You know that 99% of Speedway's "problems" with postponements/abandonments is weather related any thing else is force majeure. And as for point 2 you're applying the current rules to the new rules I would have in place, which is non-sensical.

[Bagpuss]

25 minutes ago, iainb said:

OK, you're getting into the realms of fantasy now... how about an alien invasion on the Saturday morning? You know that 99% of Speedway's "problems" with postponements/abandonments is weather related any thing else is force majeure. And as for point 2 you're applying the current rules to the new rules I would have in place, which is non-sensical.

New fans! They might become regulars

[IainB]

6 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

New fans! They might become regulars

Could explain the decline in the crowd levels at the EoEA... Alien abduction of the fans 

[NeilWatson]

51 minutes ago, iainb said:

OK, you're getting into the realms of fantasy now... how about an alien invasion on the Saturday morning? You know that 99% of Speedway's "problems" with postponements/abandonments is weather related any thing else is force majeure. And as for point 2 you're applying the current rules to the new rules I would have in place, which is non-sensical.

Just pointing out why your 'one size fits all' prescribed regulation would not work.

[IainB]

20 hours ago, Bald Bloke said:

Gate and go don't always mean slick..  It can mean that the inside to mid track was really grippy so there's no / little advantage  using the outside line. As it seems in this case going by the race times. I wasn't there but it looks like Buster did a great job considering the rain that had fallen.

That is the "before" photo... but yes the track staff did do a tremendous job!

Edited August 27, 2022 by iainb

[ouch]

You can tell I’m bored waiting from my girlfriend to get her nails done, that I’m reading this nonsense. 

 

The weather is cited as the reason for 99.9% of postponements so to put forward a ruling to help eradicate the many dodgy ones is perfectly valid. To say it wouldn’t be workable and then choose a scenario that may happen once every decade is ridiculous. Power outage, plane crash, animals escaping from the zoo are not points of discussion due to their infrequency. I’m pretty sure the Ukrainian tracks didn’t have an invaded by Russia clause and that shouldn't be a reason to say the rules were lacking or unworkable. 

I can imagine how the conference gets bogged down with nonsense such as this instead of actually moving our sorry sport forward. The current (and recently departed) people “running” this once great sport have not a clue what they are doing and they have driven it down to a point where no creditable person will touch it with a barge pole, so we are are left with the current monkeys in charge and anyone else stepping in would be equally clueless. What a horrible shame. 

[NeilWatson]

33 minutes ago, ouch said:

You can tell I’m bored waiting from my girlfriend to get her nails done, that I’m reading this nonsense. 

 

The weather is cited as the reason for 99.9% of postponements so to put forward a ruling to help eradicate the many dodgy ones is perfectly valid. To say it wouldn’t be workable and then choose a scenario that may happen once every decade is ridiculous. Power outage, plane crash, animals escaping from the zoo are not points of discussion due to their infrequency. I’m pretty sure the Ukrainian tracks didn’t have an invaded by Russia clause and that shouldn't be a reason to say the rules were lacking or unworkable. 

I can imagine how the conference gets bogged down with nonsense such as this instead of actually moving our sorry sport forward. The current (and recently departed) people “running” this once great sport have not a clue what they are doing and they have driven it down to a point where no creditable person will touch it with a barge pole, so we are are left with the current monkeys in charge and anyone else stepping in would be equally clueless. What a horrible shame. 

I agree that I exaggerated my response to 'Iainb's ever more unworkable 'one size fits all' regulation suggestion, just to prove a point.

The Speedway Regulations already contain a protocol for postponing meetings:

02.2.8 Promoter / Associate
Must sign the Meeting Certificate and remain in attendance during and immediately after the meeting. They are responsible for the organisation of the meeting, ensuring all requirements of these Regulations prior to and during the meeting are met, including payment of the appropriate fees, insurances and other statutory requirements.
Specifically, the staging Promotion is responsible: -
a) to never advertise an event in a misleading manner; not to classify a meeting as an ‘International’; or ‘British Championship’, except with prior BSPA permission, nor ever use ‘Grand Prix, World Cup or World Championship titles’
b) to ensure the track receives timely and adequate preparation
c) until 2 hours prior to the advertised start time may postpone the meeting if there are exceptional conditions as would make racing impossible, except where:
i) the SCB specifically forbids a Promotion from so doing
ii) if a Meeting Steward is appointed to the meeting
and must advise the Referee at the earliest opportunity

Despite 'iainb's denials, economics does come into the equation because of the significant amount of money a late postponent will cost.

Edited August 27, 2022 by NeilWatson

[IainB]

2 minutes ago, NeilWatson said:

I agree that I exaggerated my response to 'Iainb's ever more unworkable 'one size fits all' regulation suggestion, just to prove a point.

The Speedway Regulations already contain a protocol for postponing meetings:

02.2.8 Promoter / Associate
Must sign the Meeting Certificate and remain in attendance during and immediately after the meeting. They are responsible for the organisation of the meeting, ensuring all requirements of these Regulations prior to and during the meeting are met, including payment of the appropriate fees, insurances and other statutory requirements.
Specifically, the staging Promotion is responsible: -
a) to never advertise an event in a misleading manner; not to classify a meeting as an ‘International’; or ‘British Championship’, except with prior BSPA permission, nor ever use ‘Grand Prix, World Cup or World Championship titles’
b) to ensure the track receives timely and adequate preparation
c) until 2 hours prior to the advertised start time may postpone the meeting if there are exceptional conditions as would make racing impossible, except where:
i) the SCB specifically forbids a Promotion from so doing
ii) if a Meeting Steward is appointed to the meeting
and must advise the Referee at the earliest opportunity

Despite 'iainb's denials, economics does come into the equation because of the significant amount of money a late postponent will cost.

Current rules obviously aren't working no matter how much you quote them or try to apply them to my "suggestions". Of course economics are part of it but the current rules have dragged the sport to the current level it is... how about this for economics, the fans have stopped going because they'll make their own minds up about the weather situation and the state the track will be in because every club is doing their own thing.

[IainB]

And furthermore, those existing rules are complete baloney! Look at a) and b) how many times has a meeting been misadvertised? And you turn up and pay your money to get in and the absence of an advertised rider is announced on parade. Did the Peterborough track receive "timely and adequate preparation" on Thursday night? No point having rules if there is no penalty for not adhering to them

[Fromafar]

39 minutes ago, iainb said:

And furthermore, those existing rules are complete baloney! Look at a) and b) how many times has a meeting been misadvertised? And you turn up and pay your money to get in and the absence of an advertised rider is announced on parade. Did the Peterborough track receive "timely and adequate preparation" on Thursday night? No point having rules if there is no penalty for not adhering to them

The organisation of the sport is a shambles at best and any one that thinks otherwise is deluded .IMO.