baiden Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 I was bored, so did a bit of research into which clubs are getting the best performances from their riders based on Championship averages compared to Premiership averages. List below... Prem Champ Diff Leon Flint 3.22 7.05 -3.83 Joe Thompson 1.85 5.44 -3.59 Jye Etheridge 4.72 8.00 -3.28 Danyon Hume 3.61 6.85 -3.24 Ben Barker 5.30 8.44 -3.14 Drew Kemp 3.50 6.63 -3.13 Jordan Palin 2.27 5.36 -3.09 Jordan Jenkins 1.07 4.14 -3.07 Scott Nicholls 5.44 8.50 -3.06 Richard Lawson 6.93 9.62 -2.99 Cameron Heeps 2.40 5.10 -2.70 Kyle Howarth 7.13 9.38 -2.25 Hans Andersen 5.97 8.19 -2.22 Anders Rowe 2.86 5.00 -2.14 Lewis Kerr 5.63 7.53 -1.90 Erik Riss 6.92 8.78 -1.86 Craig Cook 6.93 8.64 -1.71 Richie Worrall 7.45 9.00 -1.55 Charles Wright 7.76 9.26 -1.50 Nick Morris 7.87 9.30 -1.43 Jack Thomas 4.23 5.50 -1.27 Benjamin Basso 6.81 8.07 -1.26 Ulrich Ostergaard 6.13 7.38 -1.25 Connor Mountain 4.94 6.13 -1.19 Tom Brennan 6.28 7.45 -1.17 Ryan Douglas 8.29 9.44 -1.15 Chris Harris 8.54 9.58 -1.04 Stefan Nielsen 4.34 5.37 -1.03 Danny King 6.77 7.70 -0.93 Steve Worrall 8.47 9.28 -0.81 Michael Palm Toft 6.92 7.70 -0.78 Josh Pickering 8.49 9.13 -0.64 Troy Batchelor 6.86 7.41 -0.55 Sam Masters 10.03 10.44 -0.41 Adam Ellis 7.74 8.13 -0.39 I think you can forgive some of the younger riders, but pretty disappointing from the likes of Barker and Nicholls being over three points down.(averages taken from the most recent issue of Speedway Star) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 The Danny King one is interesting as I thought it was going to be slightly higher for Ipswich tbh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 Last season there were actually two riders with HIGHER Premiership averages than Championship (Toft and Rowe I think) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 5 hours ago, arnieg said: Last season there were actually two riders with HIGHER Premiership averages than Championship (Toft and Rowe I think) That doesn't surprise me as didn't PT ride for Redcar last season so not any home advantage to gain a high average, whereas Peterborough has more of a home advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzie4388 Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 Not sure where you've got your averages from but the actual greensheet averages are How much did Etheridge pay you for the 8.00 average? lol his average is 6.64 in the Championsip Premiership: p22_issue_11.pdf Championship: c22_issue_14.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baiden Posted July 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Fozzie4388 said: Not sure where you've got your averages from but the actual greensheet averages are How much did Etheridge pay you for the 8.00 average? lol his average is 6.64 in the Championsip Premiership: p22_issue_11.pdf Championship: c22_issue_14.pdf It was literally written in my post. The latest issue of the Speedway Star! Some people just can't be nice can they. M R Pts BP TOT CMA Jye Etheridge 7 26 48 4 52 8.00 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzie4388 Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, baiden said: It was literally written in my post. The latest issue of the Speedway Star! Some people just can't be nice can they. M R Pts BP TOT CMA Jye Etheridge 7 26 48 4 52 8.00 The averages printed in the Speedway Star aren't the correct averages that are used though, The Greensheet averages are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baiden Posted July 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 Just now, Fozzie4388 said: The averages printed in the Speedway Star aren't the correct averages that are used though, The Greensheet averages are. So what? The post is about which teams are getting the best performances from their riders in 2022, based on Championship averages compared to Premiership. Greensheet averages are based on rolling averages (last 14 matches I think) and not just 2022 performances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 12 hours ago, Fozzie4388 said: Not sure where you've got your averages from but the actual greensheet averages are How much did Etheridge pay you for the 8.00 average? lol his average is 6.64 in the Championsip Premiership: p22_issue_11.pdf Championship: c22_issue_14.pdf Green Sheets are not a reflection of this season, because they still include some from 2021. Averages are updated regularly now, showing Home, Away & Overall for 2022. Note that the Green Sheet figures are updated as soon as the referee's official scorecard is available, so will not reflect the current month (and don't forget that the number of matches used for the GSA will reduce by 2 for August): https://britishspeedway.co.uk/2022-rider-statistics/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 Much of the above all depends if you take note of the conversion rate or not. For example Kyle Howarth PL 7.13 CL 9.38 (diff-2.25) however 7.13 x 1.5 = 10.70 (diff+1.32) Might go through them all later but at first glance there are a lot of riders who are achieving higher averages converted in the "tougher" league (or are they short changing their championship sides?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said: Much of the above all depends if you take note of the conversion rate or not. For example Kyle Howarth PL 7.13 CL 9.38 (diff-2.25) however 7.13 x 1.5 = 10.70 (diff+1.32) Might go through them all later but at first glance there are a lot of riders who are achieving higher averages converted in the "tougher" league (or are they short changing their championship sides?) Lots of factors, e.g. home track, position in team. Also, the conversion factor is arbitrary - I'm sure if a statistician looked at all the factors, they could come up with an equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: Lots of factors, e.g. home track, position in team. Also, the conversion factor is arbitrary - I'm sure if a statistician looked at all the factors, they could come up with an equation. If using a simple conversion factor it should be in the region of 1.25-1.3. However the relationship is not strictly proportionate (witness all the low average rider at the top of the table) so a linear regression would be better modelling. (I have done this before. I think the answer would come out as something like: Prem av = 0.9 Champ av - 2) Edit: just done regression on 2021 stats: formula is: 0.824 Champ Av - 0.32 = Prem Av Edited July 13, 2022 by arnieg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) It's funny that pure statistics don't always tell the whole story, the one that caught my eye Kyle Howarth 7.13 9.38 -2.25 Hans Andersen 5.97 8.19 -2.22 On the face of it you'd say that Hans has had a disaster of a season, but Kyle a great season Edited July 13, 2022 by iainb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baiden Posted July 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, iainb said: It's funny that pure statistics don't always tell the whole story, the one that caught my eye Kyle Howarth 7.13 9.38 -2.25 Hans Andersen 5.97 8.19 -2.22 On the face of it you'd say that Hans has had a disaster of a season, but Kyle a great season Are the averages actual season averages or rolling averages? Just from the start of 2022. Thought it would be a fairer (or at least as fair as it could be) reflection that way. I think it also shows that Kyle has been decent in both leagues, and Hans...well....hasn't. Edited July 13, 2022 by baiden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 hour ago, iainb said: It's funny that pure statistics don't always tell the whole story, the one that caught my eye Kyle Howarth 7.13 9.38 -2.25 Hans Andersen 5.97 8.19 -2.22 On the face of it you'd say that Hans has had a disaster of a season, but Kyle a great season As per my earlier post, the up-to-date averages are here: https://britishspeedway.co.uk/2022-rider-statistics/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalman Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, auntie doris said: I think Masters is the only top rider in Premiership that doubles up in Championship, his compatriots Doyle, Kurtz, Fricke don't. Lawson second in Championship, not doing so well in Premiership. Bomber, Pickering, The Worralls, Howarth, Wrighty, and Douglas having good seasons in both leagues. Batch disappointing in both, Cookie should be doing better, beset by injuries though. Benjamin Basso and Brennan improving rapidly. Edited July 14, 2022 by auntie doris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted July 14, 2022 Report Share Posted July 14, 2022 On 7/12/2022 at 9:09 PM, baiden said: So what? The post is about which teams are getting the best performances from their riders in 2022, based on Championship averages compared to Premiership. Greensheet averages are based on rolling averages (last 14 matches I think) and not just 2022 performances. "So what?" My thoughts exactly - if you want to use the speedway star aves go ahead! You never claimed they were the official averages. Also they will be more accurate as they include more matches (cup etc) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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