Oxford 2022

[George Dodds]

2 minutes ago, baiden said:

If the stadium is going to go completely cashless, then fair enough. But it's not, so don't understand why they can't take cash on the gate.

I don't know but perhaps that is a possibility. 

[Fromafar]

4 minutes ago, George Dodds said:

As you so eloquently point out opinions can be wrong.  So your opinion that I was lying about the reason we don't take card payments at the turnstile could be wrong. 

Think you need to read my Post again.I certainly never insinuated you were lying,just pointed out that is was poor not too have a solution.

[Humphrey Appleby]

13 minutes ago, baiden said:

I'm really not sure why you have such a problem with people paying on the gate?

Very simply because paying cash is potentially open to fraud from employees, can get otherwise get lost/stolen (which itself means you need to assign someone to look after it), and then needs to be physically taken to a bank assuming you can actually find one that's still open these days. In short, it's a pain to deal with now most people (including my 91-year-old Aunt) have a smartphone and are well used to paying for stuff online. 

[George Dodds]

9 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Think you need to read my Post again.I certainly never insinuated you were lying,just pointed out that is was poor not too have a solution.

You state what I had explained as "rubbish" ergo untrue,  therefore a lie, which would make me a liar according to you. 

[baiden]

8 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Very simply because paying cash is potentially open to fraud from employees, can get otherwise get lost/stolen (which itself means you need to assign someone to look after it), and then needs to be physically taken to a bank assuming you can actually find one that's still open these days. In short, it's a pain to deal with now most people (including my 91-year-old Aunt) have a smartphone and are well used to paying for stuff online. 

The sheer amount of people complaining about it on here should show that Oxford are potentially missing out. But it's up to them at the end of the day, I'll be very surprised if you can't pay on the gate once greyhound racing restarts, though.

And as I've already said, there are plenty of other cash transactions going on inside the stadium, so not sure what they do with that cash if taking it to the bank is such a problem. Perhaps it's pocketed by the employees, so they don't have to worry about it!

Edited July 15, 2022 by baiden

[Fromafar]

6 minutes ago, George Dodds said:

You state what I had explained as "rubbish" ergo untrue,  therefore a lie, which would make me a liar according to you. 

If your happy that,fine by me.

[HGould]

We Speedway Fans, (some do some don't but we do seem to have a mentality some Sports don't have) seem to find anything and just about everything to moan at.

Cash / Card / Contactless, Afternoon or Evening , Too dusty / too wet / too deep / too slick, masks or no masks ; quality of food, of toilets - the list is endless isn't it?

The moaning and excuses not to go continue as more Clubs close and more Clubs struggle, but it's always someonelses fault when the Speedway closes as income v expenditure don't stack up or people stay away.

Peolpe drift away.

 

In the specific case of Oxford, words - at least polite ones fail me - Closed for years until an outstanding effort by some visionaries got it back against all the Odds.... its doing a great job for old Oxford fans and no doubt lapsed Swindon / Reading / Coventry / various London and Southern tracks etc. 

Still people moan, lets hope it doesn't close again because of these refusniks

Edited July 15, 2022 by HGould
format correction

[baiden]

8 minutes ago, HGould said:

We Speedway Fans, (some do some don't but we do seem to have a mentality some Sports don't have) seem to find anything and just about everything to moan at.

Cash / Card / Contactless, Afternoon or Evening , Too dusty / too wet / too deep / too slick, masks or no masks ; quality of food, of toilets - the list is endless isn't it?

The moaning and excuses not to go continue as more Clubs close and more Clubs struggle, but it's always someonelses fault when the Speedway closes as income v expenditure don't stack up or people stay away.

Peolpe drift away.

 

In the specific case of Oxford, words - at least polite ones fail me - Closed for years until an outstanding effort by some visionaries got it back against all the Odds.... its doing a great job for old Oxford fans and no doubt lapsed Swindon / Reading / Coventry / various London and Southern tracks etc. 

Still people moan, lets hope it doesn't close again because of these refusniks

Okay, so let's all sit back and do nothing! Oxford isn't likely to close because of 'constructive criticism' on a forum, it'll close due to dwindling revenue due to lost ticket sales.

I'm not moaning, I will happily buy a ticket online every week, just pointing out that I think a lack of cash payments is a missed opportunity.

[Humphrey Appleby]

34 minutes ago, baiden said:

The sheer amount of people complaining about it on here should show that Oxford are potentially missing out. But it's up to them at the end of the day, I'll be very surprised if you can't pay on the gate once greyhound racing restarts, though.

I count precisely three people complaining about it on here, including one who probably isn't likely to go regularly. 

Quote

And as I've already said, there are plenty of other cash transactions going on inside the stadium, so not sure what they do with that cash if taking it to the bank is such a problem. Perhaps it's pocketed by the employees, so they don't have to worry about it!

I'm nothing to do with the Oxford promotion and certainly don't know why they'd have a no-cash policy on the gate but not in the stadium. I could suppose though, that in-stadium sales are easier to manage as they'd go through a till and are more easy to reconcile. 

Back to the point though, I have organised events, including sports events, and not having to handle cash greatly simplifies administration and allows you do things with fewer staff. And in a sport with fine margins that can be the difference between running and not running.

You might be losing out on a handful of customers as a result, but the extra money you might gain probably won't cover the wages of the extra person(s) you need to supervise, guard, reconcile and then bank the cash. Been there, done that, and it's wasted effort when online payment options are available. 

I appreciate it may seem like an inflexible policy, but just to give an promoter perspective...

Edited July 15, 2022 by Humphrey Appleby

[baiden]

25 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I count precisely three people complaining about it on here, including one who probably isn't likely to go regularly.

Count again. There are three people on this thread, let alone the many others on different threads about Oxford.

25 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I'm nothing to do with the Oxford promotion and certainly don't know why they'd have a no-cash policy on the gate but not in the stadium. I could suppose though, that in-stadium sales are easier to manage as they'd go through a till and are more easy to reconcile. 

Back to the point though, I have organised events, including sports events, and not having to handle cash greatly simplifies administration and allows you do things with fewer staff. And in a sport with fine margins that can be the difference between running and not running.

You might be losing out on a handful of customers as a result, but the extra money you might gain probably won't cover the wages of the extra person(s) you need to supervise, guard, reconcile and then bank the cash. Been there, done that, and it's wasted effort when online payment options are available. 

Not all the cash is being taken through a till, though, there are plenty of places where it's taken by a man/woman in front of a table!

I honestly can't see where the extra cost is going to come in. There's no need to employ extra staff, they already have lots of people on the gate checking QR codes, they already need the security for the other cash taken and they already need to visit the bank. And that's my point, if it does cost much more, then fair enough, but just don't see how it could.

You've organised events, so how much of a difference financially is it to have someone take cash and check QR codes, as opposed to just checking QR codes? I don't know, maybe there is a difference. In a worst case scenario, would it cost much more just to have one entrance where cash could be taken?

I guess Oxford knows best. At the end of the day, all I'm saying is it would be nice if they took cash on the gate. It's not going to stop me going if they don't.

Edited July 15, 2022 by baiden

[steve roberts]

As a matter of interest are other clubs operating a pre-booked ticket only policy?

[steve roberts]

7 minutes ago, baiden said:

Count again. There are three people on this thread, let alone the many others on different threads about Oxford.

Not all the cash is being taken through a till, though, there are plenty of places where it's taken by a man/woman in front of a table!

I honestly can't see where the extra cost is going to come in. There's no need to employ extra staff, they already have lots of people on the gate checking QR codes, they already need the security for the other cash taken and they already need to visit the bank. And that's my point, if it does cost much more, then fair enough, but just don't see how it could.

You've organised events, so how much of a difference financially is it to have someone take cash and check QR codes, as opposed to just checking QR codes? I don't know, maybe there is a difference. In a worst case scenario, would it cost much more just to have one entrance where cash could be taken?

I guess Oxford know best. At the end of the day, all I'm saying is it would be nice if they took cash on the gate. It's not going to stop me going if they don't.

I remember during Oxford's past that someone was "employed" at the gate to collect money and his reward was free entry to the meeting.

[Fromafar]

7 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I remember during Oxford's past that someone was "employed" at the gate to collect money and his reward was free entry to the meeting.

I would estimate that 90% of duties performed at Speedway are by volunteers with the reward free admission. Think that is becoming an issue in the sport for a number of reasons.

[Humphrey Appleby]

55 minutes ago, baiden said:

There's no need to employ extra staff, they already have lots of people on the gate checking QR codes, they already need the security for the other cash taken and they already need to visit the bank.

As I said, it's harder to argue if there's cash involved elsewhere, but the difference between checking QR codes and taking cash is somewhat different. With pre-paid tickets the money has already been taken, so it's just a matter of ensuring someone has paid so the level of trust and supervision can be lower.

Quote

You've organised events, so how much of a difference financially is it to have someone take cash and check QR codes, as opposed to just checking QR codes? I don't know, maybe there is a difference. In a worst case scenario, would it cost much more just to have one entrance where cash could be taken?

The last couple of 'large' events that I did were probably in the order of couple of thousand people each. I personally spent the entire day trying to find a bank that could provide $5k in $5 and $10 bills as a float (this wasn't the UK), supervising the cash collection at the gates, counting the cash to ensure it matched the entries, and then guarding the cash until the end of the event. That basically meant I couldn't do anything else, so effectively added one person to the payroll. With bigger events and more entrances, you'd need more people involved in the cash supervision. 

The problem with one entrance is that everyone tends to turn up at once and with bigger crowds causes confusion and creates congestion which is critical at the start of the event. 

It's not insurmountable if you have the resources, but you have to balance the number of volunteers you have or the wages you'll have to pay against what you think you might lose if you don't take cash. For the rugby events only about 10-15% of people paid cash anyway (and that was 3 years ago), whereas for the motorsport events it had already dwindled to 1-2% before we insisted on online payments only. [In practice, if someone turns up on the day and offers cash then I do accept it, but I just don't advertise it.]

Edited July 15, 2022 by Humphrey Appleby

[Humphrey Appleby]

29 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I remember during Oxford's past that someone was "employed" at the gate to collect money and his reward was free entry to the meeting.

Sadly - and whilst I don't wish to impune anyone - you still have to supervise volunteers when it comes to cash. A combination of laxity - if it's not your money - temptation, and letting in your mates for nothing, means any promoter should be maintaining a high degree of supervision over the cash take.

 

[baiden]

26 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

As I said, it's harder to argue if there's cash involved elsewhere, but the difference between checking QR codes and taking cash is somewhat different. With pre-paid tickets the money has already been taken, so it's just a matter of ensuring someone has paid so the level of trust and supervision can be lower.

The last couple of 'large' events that I did were probably in the order of couple of thousand people each. I personally spent the entire day trying to find a bank that could provide $5k in $5 and $10 bills as a float (this wasn't the UK), supervising the cash collection at the gates, counting the cash to ensure it matched the entries, and then guarding the cash until the end of the event. That basically meant I couldn't do anything else, so effectively added one person to the payroll. With bigger events and more entrances, you'd need more people involved in the cash supervision. 

The problem with one entrance is that everyone tends to turn up at once and with bigger crowds causes confusion and creates congestion which is critical at the start of the event. 

It's not insurmountable if you have the resources, but you have to balance the number of volunteers you have or the wages you'll have to pay against what you think you might lose if you don't take cash. For the rugby events only about 10-15% of people paid cash anyway (and that was 3 years ago), whereas for the motorsport events it had already dwindled to 1-2% before we insisted on online payments only. 

Completely understand what you are saying, and appreciate the complexities of hosting an event where cash is involved.

In your honest opinion, though, if you were already taking cash at bars/official food outlets and programme stalls, would it have been that much extra hassle to take cash on the gate? For the motorsport events where you insisted on online payments only, were there cash exchanges going on elsewhere that you had to manage? Just interested if they go hand-in-hand, or not.

I guess the Oxford situation will be proven one way or the other once the greyhound racing starts. If that's also online only, I'll eat my hat!

Edited July 15, 2022 by baiden

[Ovalman]

I reckon Oxford will resort to cash and card on gate once the crowds start falling..Summer Trophy etc., Older fans without smartphones will pay on gate. I watch Cirencester Town, cash only on gate, Hungerford Town, where nearly 40% pay cash/ card on gate. So out of a crowd of say 550, 200 don't pay online in advance? Mainly older fans.

[Tim G]

Went to Silverstone for the British Superbikes early this year and you had to set up an account and then buy your ticket as they had no ticket office. We didn’t realise this until we arrived so ended up in the customer support centre.

Food outlets you could pay using cash so.

With Oxford having a capacity limit I expect it is much easier to keep track of the number off tickets sold using online selling.

Pubs, sporting events and businesses are going cashless so people are just going to have to get used to it.

[Ovalman]

I'm happy to buy online in advance but as baiden said his Dad won't attend. As a lot of speedway fans are over 65 and don't feel comfortable with that method of payment would be good for Oxford to eventually be all-inclusive to all Cheetahs fans to increase attendances when interest starts waning.

[piston197]

I organise 3 events per year ( autojumbles) https://en-gb.facebook.com/South-Midlands-Autojumble-454079101421891/  while some stall holders choose to take the option of payment in advance at a discount, the majority turn up on the day, cash is the only means of payment on the 3 entrance gates for the public , it has been going 32 years now

Using these methods the stall prices have remained the same for 32 years and public admission has crept up from £2.50p to £4.00 in the same period, we looked at on line ticketing and basically it just meant some financial body was dipping into our cash as there would be a fee for their services/card readers/percentage charges, and if the system failed you were basically b*****ed

Ok it is a fairly small event relatively, with approx 100 stall holders and around 900 plus paying attendees, but as the majority of customers are in the same ( or older) group as Speedway audiences, it still works, although last year we had some bearded hipster turn up without any cash and said he never carried any and we should take cards, he got instructions to the nearest cash point as strangely enough he did not have any mates who could lend him a fiver, what he thought he was going to buy off the traders with his plastic was anybodies guess as most would suggest a convenient slot for his credit card !