The Elite league

[GWC]

If Woffinden Lambert and Bewley came back to the U.K. that would be a huge boost to the Premiership but can’t see it at the moment.

Sweden is going (to go) the same way as the U.K. with interest falling alarmingly, again I would say through lack of top Swedish riders.

I think after the pandemic U.K. had the chance to reorganise and have one professional league to employ the stay at home riders and from overseas - mostly Aussies and where would be without them!

The sport is becoming Northern dominated as stadiums in the south come under pressure through ever increasing land values and housing requirements.

[sommelier1]

To get the Polish riders over to the UK you are going to have to pay strong money. the cost of machinery, minimum of 2 bikes, mechanics' transport . They have to demand high price. Its like I'm i would think the likes of Oscar Paulch the 16 year old sensation could be tempted to the UK for a season if a club as long arms & deep pockets! 

[chunky]

On 7/11/2022 at 5:50 AM, Skidder1 said:

Yes but the reduction of speedway clubs has been as much to do with stadium closures as it has been the fault of speedway promotions!!

You surely can't blame the speedway clubs at Coventry, Lakeside, Somerset and Swindon for example!  They would all still be racing if the stadia were available.

What I've been saying for years... The state of British speedway isn't solely due to mismanagement within speedway. In particular, speedway used to be a city centre sport, but most of the tracks we have now are out in the sticks, and invisible to most of the population.

[steve roberts]

10 hours ago, chunky said:

What I've been saying for years... The state of British speedway isn't solely due to mismanagement within speedway. In particular, speedway used to be a city centre sport, but most of the tracks we have now are out in the sticks, and invisible to most of the population.

Personally I think also that speedway not featuring in London is a factor as not having a track operating in the capitol doesn't catch the attention of the mass media.

[chunky]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

Personally I think also that speedway not featuring in London is a factor as not having a track operating in the capitol doesn't catch the attention of the mass media.

Of course, but that goes hand-in-hand with speedway being forced out of the city centres. Look at all the London tracks we had; only Hackney could be considered a "rural" location, and even then, it was only a couple of hundred yards from one of the busiest roads in London.

[Humphrey Appleby]

4 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Personally I think also that speedway not featuring in London is a factor as not having a track operating in the capitol doesn't catch the attention of the mass media.

F1 doesn't have a track operating in London either, but still gets plenty of attention. 

The 'mass media' is much less important than it once was. Few under the age of 50 read newspapers or even watch mainstream TV these days, so the opportunities are there for sports that can gain attention through other channels. 

The problem of course, is that speedway is largely followed by people well over 50 and unfortunately has been unable or unwilling to address that underlying issue for the past 20-30 years. Just as an example, any sport of any credibility has an app where you can get news and live results, but does British speedway? The SGP now has one which is a start, but even that's somewhat lame (e.g. its developers are apparently unable to even make a proper logo for it). 

[Humphrey Appleby]

15 hours ago, chunky said:

What I've been saying for years... The state of British speedway isn't solely due to mismanagement within speedway. In particular, speedway used to be a city centre sport, but most of the tracks we have now are out in the sticks, and invisible to most of the population.

In truth it was always a fairly marginal sport with few or no wealthy benefactors, and to a certain extent has fallen victim to land pressures and environmental concerns that have forced it from prime locations. But Hackney in particular was basically situated within what became the London Olympic park and the sport apparently did nothing to ensure it was included amongst the other minority sports that had facilities built for them. That sums up the mismanagement of speedway down the years.

[baiden]

10 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

F1 doesn't have a track operating in London either, but still gets plenty of attention. 

The 'mass media' is much less important than it once was. Few under the age of 50 read newspapers or even watch mainstream TV these days, so the opportunities are there for sports that can gain attention through other channels. 

The problem of course, is that speedway is largely followed by people well over 50 and unfortunately has been unable or unwilling to address that underlying issue for the past 20-30 years. Just as an example, any sport of any credibility has an app where you can get news and live results, but does British speedway? The SGP now has one which is a start, but even that's somewhat lame (e.g. its developers are apparently unable to even make a proper logo for it). 

Absolutely, couldn't agree more with that. I was always shocked at the average age of the crowd in this country. To me speedway in the UK has all the factors that should attract a younger audience, but it just doesn't seem to be able to do it.

It is possible though. I've been to a few meetings in Poland and it's a much younger audience (no surprise, given its popularity - and the fact each club has a marketing team of about four people).

I was also surprised when Oxford started up again, they've done a really good job at attracting all ages. There are a few older faces that naturally returned, but the average age has to be closer to 30. Plenty of kids around as well. At least that's certainly the case around where I stand. And it always seems to be a decent crowd, close to 2,000 each time. But,  as has been mentioned, the big problem is that the Cheetahs are totally at the mercy of the stadium owners. They've got a 10-year lease now, but after that, no matter how large the crowds are, it could just as easily be closed down again.

[Humphrey Appleby]

19 minutes ago, baiden said:

I was also surprised when Oxford started up again, they've done a really good job at attracting all ages. There are a few older faces that naturally returned, but the average age has to be closer to 30. Plenty of kids around as well. At least that's certainly the case around where I stand. And it always seems to be a decent crowd, close to 2,000 each time. But,  as has been mentioned, the big problem is that the Cheetahs are totally at the mercy of the stadium owners. They've got a 10-year lease now, but after that, no matter how large the crowds are, it could just as easily be closed down again.

Oxford speedway, in many respects, has always been Oxford's sports team and is situated right at the heart of its core demographic within the city. Oxford United - even though it's had its successes (and many failures) is always going to be a lower league team, whereas the Cheetahs have featured world-class riders and been amongst the best teams in the world in the past. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Humphrey Appleby

[IainB]

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

F1 doesn't have a track operating in London either, but still gets plenty of attention. 

The 'mass media' is much less important than it once was. Few under the age of 50 read newspapers or even watch mainstream TV these days, so the opportunities are there for sports that can gain attention through other channels. 

The problem of course, is that speedway is largely followed by people well over 50 and unfortunately has been unable or unwilling to address that underlying issue for the past 20-30 years. Just as an example, any sport of any credibility has an app where you can get news and live results, but does British speedway? The SGP now has one which is a start, but even that's somewhat lame (e.g. its developers are apparently unable to even make a proper logo for it). 

Wouldn't worry about London too much, it's basically a different country to the rest of the UK...

British Speedway may not have an app, but it does have an excellent podcast, very 2022!

[Chris116]

There have been a number of people mentioning the lack of racing in London and having lived in the capital for most of my life I can only feel very sad at what has happened.

While I was young my parents took me racing to Wimbledon, West Ham, New Cross, Hackney, Crayford, White City and Romford for Speedway. We also went to Wimbledon, Harringay, West Ham, White City, Walthamstow and Crayford for Stock Cars. At the same time there was greyhound racing at all of those tracks except Romford which still has a greyhound track. Two other greyhound tracks that come to mind are Crayford and Wandsworth. 

Except for the Romford and Crayford greyhound stadiums all are now closed and knocked down with shopping centres or housing built on the site.

Tracks just outside London included Staines, Arena Essex, Rye House and Rayleigh which I enjoyed racing at but no longer exist. 

The whole situation is very sad for speedway, stock car and greyhound racing fans. London has become a desert with ever more housing built and then our political masters wonder why the young find entertainment in spraying graffiti everywhere or having mob fights at a weekend. 

 

Now my closest tracks for speedway are Poole and Isle of Wight but public transport no longer can get me home afterwards. For stock cars the choice is Aldershot and that is a 30 minute walk from the station!

I am just happy to have enjoyed the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s when I could enjoy motor racing on 2 and 4 wheels in the London area and feel sorry for those who are growing up now.

[ch958]

Crayford's still there but i understand its too small to fit a track in, wd it be smaller than Plymouth?

[Humphrey Appleby]

33 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

Except for the Romford and Crayford greyhound stadiums all are now closed and knocked down with shopping centres or housing built on the site.

Neither Hackney nor Wimbledon were knocked down for shopping centres or housing, and were replaced by other sports facilities. Well okay Hackney ended up being the Olympic media centre as far as I'm aware, but it could potentially have been relocated within the complex if the right representations had been made. 

[baiden]

3 minutes ago, ch958 said:

Crayford's still there but i understand its too small to fit a track in, wd it be smaller than Plymouth?

I don't think the current Crayford stadium has ever hosted speedway. Racing ceased when the old Crayford & Bexleyheath Stadium was demolished.

[ch958]

1 hour ago, baiden said:

I don't think the current Crayford stadium has ever hosted speedway. Racing ceased when the old Crayford & Bexleyheath Stadium was demolished.

no, it hasn't but i just thought with the recent fashion for smaller tracks...the original one was small enough though

[steve roberts]

11 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

F1 doesn't have a track operating in London either, but still gets plenty of attention. 

The 'mass media' is much less important than it once was. Few under the age of 50 read newspapers or even watch mainstream TV these days, so the opportunities are there for sports that can gain attention through other channels. 

The problem of course, is that speedway is largely followed by people well over 50 and unfortunately has been unable or unwilling to address that underlying issue for the past 20-30 years. Just as an example, any sport of any credibility has an app where you can get news and live results, but does British speedway? The SGP now has one which is a start, but even that's somewhat lame (e.g. its developers are apparently unable to even make a proper logo for it). 

A bit different I think...Formula One is a world wide phenomena and was/is largely based on TV transmission (in whatever format) which obviously attracts the mass media (which I include all aspects of social media outlets) as do other "favourite" sports that are forever pushed forward for mass consumption despite their often mediocre offerings. I gave up years ago watching BBC's "Sports Personality of the Year" as it concentrated on sports that were obviously part of their own agenda and choosing....even when speedway was big news it never got a fair analysis as it didn't fit within the beeb's remit.

I would be interested in knowing the demographics of the more "popular" sports and whether they justify blanket coverage and who sets the agenda?

Interesting that you mention that few under the age of 50 watch mainstream TV which, if true, beggars belief in that the rest of us have to endure banal TV programmes obviously aimed at those same people and many produced, presumeably, by people having recently graduated from University with a degree in nothing of any great importance!

Edited July 13, 2022 by steve roberts

[Humphrey Appleby]

8 hours ago, steve roberts said:

A bit different I think...Formula One is a world wide phenomena and was/is largely based on TV transmission (in whatever format) which obviously attracts the mass media (which I include all aspects of social media outlets) as do other "favourite" sports that are forever pushed forward for mass consumption despite their often mediocre offerings. I gave up years ago watching BBC's "Sports Personality of the Year" as it concentrated on sports that were obviously part of their own agenda and choosing....even when speedway was big news it never got a fair analysis as it didn't fit within the beeb's remit.

Yes, but why is F1 a worldwide phenomena and speedway isn't? F1 isn't actually very spectator friendly, taking place in fairly remote places with poor viewing, whereas with speedway you can see all the action. But it was clever enough to make sure it was one of the first regularly televised sports.

8 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I would be interested in knowing the demographics of the more "popular" sports and whether they justify blanket coverage and who sets the agenda?

Cricket for some reason, has always attracted high rollers (originally because of gambling) although it's always had participation across the social classes. If you look at the sponsors and adverts during cricket, they tend towards investment and trading companies rather than used car dealers or panel beaters, and that tells you everything about who's following the sport.

Moreover, its following knows how to leverage the media, sponsors, financing and government support for the sport, which is why we still have 18 first class cricket clubs despite most of them living a quite marginal existence. At a test match, look at all the politicians, celebrities and captains of industry who turn up, none of whom would be seen dead at speedway.

Rugby Union largely has a similar sort of following - maybe less so in Wales - but again look at the type of sponsors that it attracts. 

Rugby League probably has many parallels with speedway. Historically a bit hand-to-mouth, but arguably rooted deeper in its core communities than speedway, so there was more willingness from local media and businesses to rally round during tough times. It was also clever enough to get on television early, which is perhaps what attracted Murdoch to 'buy' the sport and raise it out of the dark ages. Having said that, I still don't think it's really ever made the expected inroads that you'd have expected from the massive investment, remaining a largely regional sport in both Britain and Australia. 

Ice Hockey - again many parallels to speedway and arguably sharing a similar fan base historically. Also had it's ups-and-down and massive instability over the years, before seemingly finding its current moderately successful format. Again, it's probably survived because ice hockey is a major sport in a few other countries and it can benefit from that, although you'd have to say British ice hockey is still not very high profile or featured prominently in the mainstream media, and that's again reflected in the type of sponsors it has. 

Football is just the great God that's followed pretty much by everyone to some extent. Easy to play, easy to watch, a whole soap opera around it, and plenty of rich fools willing to throw around their money to demonstrate their munificence... 

8 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Interesting that you mention that few under the age of 50 watch mainstream TV which, if true, beggars belief in that the rest of us have to endure banal TV programmes obviously aimed at those same people and many produced, presumeably, by people having recently graduated from University with a degree in nothing of any great importance!

Mainstream television has always been quite banal. You're just getting old and only remembering the good stuff from yesteryear... 

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Yes, but why is F1 a worldwide phenomena and speedway isn't? F1 isn't actually very spectator friendly, taking place in fairly remote places with poor viewing, whereas with speedway you can see all the action. But it was clever enough to make sure it was one of the first regularly televised sports.

Cricket for some reason, has always attracted high rollers (originally because of gambling) although it's always had participation across the social classes. If you look at the sponsors and adverts during cricket, they tend towards investment and trading companies rather than used car dealers or panel beaters, and that tells you everything about who's following the sport.

Moreover, its following knows how to leverage the media, sponsors, financing and government support for the sport, which is why we still have 18 first class cricket clubs despite most of them living a quite marginal existence. At a test match, look at all the politicians, celebrities and captains of industry who turn up, none of whom would be seen dead at speedway.

Rugby Union largely has a similar sort of following - maybe less so in Wales - but again look at the type of sponsors that it attracts. 

Rugby League probably has many parallels with speedway. Historically a bit hand-to-mouth, but arguably rooted deeper in its core communities than speedway, so there was more willingness from local media and businesses to rally round during tough times. It was also clever enough to get on television early, which is perhaps what attracted Murdoch to 'buy' the sport and raise it out of the dark ages. Having said that, I still don't think it's really ever made the expected inroads that you'd have expected from the massive investment, remaining a largely regional sport in both Britain and Australia. 

Ice Hockey - again many parallels to speedway and arguably sharing a similar fan base historically. Also had it's ups-and-down and massive instability over the years, before seemingly finding its current moderately successful format. Again, it's probably survived because ice hockey is a major sport in a few other countries and it can benefit from that, although you'd have to say British ice hockey is still not very high profile or featured prominently in the mainstream media, and that's again reflected in the type of sponsors it has. 

Football is just the great God that's followed pretty much by everyone to some extent. Easy to play, easy to watch, a whole soap opera around it, and plenty of rich fools willing to throw around their money to demonstrate their munificence... 

Mainstream television has always been quite banal. You're just getting old and only remembering the good stuff from yesteryear... 

....without the glut of "celebrity" culture programmes and reality rubbish we now have to endure however!

[steve roberts]

5 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Yes, but why is F1 a worldwide phenomena and speedway isn't? F1 isn't actually very spectator friendly, taking place in fairly remote places with poor viewing, whereas with speedway you can see all the action. But it was clever enough to make sure it was one of the first regularly televised sports.

Cricket for some reason, has always attracted high rollers (originally because of gambling) although it's always had participation across the social classes. If you look at the sponsors and adverts during cricket, they tend towards investment and trading companies rather than used car dealers or panel beaters, and that tells you everything about who's following the sport.

Moreover, its following knows how to leverage the media, sponsors, financing and government support for the sport, which is why we still have 18 first class cricket clubs despite most of them living a quite marginal existence. At a test match, look at all the politicians, celebrities and captains of industry who turn up, none of whom would be seen dead at speedway.

Rugby Union largely has a similar sort of following - maybe less so in Wales - but again look at the type of sponsors that it attracts. 

Rugby League probably has many parallels with speedway. Historically a bit hand-to-mouth, but arguably rooted deeper in its core communities than speedway, so there was more willingness from local media and businesses to rally round during tough times. It was also clever enough to get on television early, which is perhaps what attracted Murdoch to 'buy' the sport and raise it out of the dark ages. Having said that, I still don't think it's really ever made the expected inroads that you'd have expected from the massive investment, remaining a largely regional sport in both Britain and Australia. 

Ice Hockey - again many parallels to speedway and arguably sharing a similar fan base historically. Also had it's ups-and-down and massive instability over the years, before seemingly finding its current moderately successful format. Again, it's probably survived because ice hockey is a major sport in a few other countries and it can benefit from that, although you'd have to say British ice hockey is still not very high profile or featured prominently in the mainstream media, and that's again reflected in the type of sponsors it has. 

Football is just the great God that's followed pretty much by everyone to some extent. Easy to play, easy to watch, a whole soap opera around it, and plenty of rich fools willing to throw around their money to demonstrate their munificence... 

Mainstream television has always been quite banal. You're just getting old and only remembering the good stuff from yesteryear... 

Money and gullibility I dare say!

Problem is that the BBC in particular stick to the "Old Boys" network of sports and it's very difficult for minority sports to break into that mindsight. Speedway during its last "Golden Era" still didn't register with the Management structure at the beeb leaving it to the sadly missed "World of Sport" to pick up the mantel. Even the Mirror Group who backed the sport back then their coverage was rather hit and miss giving way to the "established" sports and although they gave the likes of Peter Collins good publicity their editorials were generally disappointing especially at domestic level.

Edited July 14, 2022 by steve roberts

[mikebv]

Speedway has three main issues which stifle its development and growth..

One. The operating model. Simply it is designed to give the owners something to spend their money on that they enjoy. There is no plan for growth nor development, hence putting out "any adhoc Speedway", regardless of credibility, integrity, or relevance, is the objective, rather than running the sport like other "respected, relevant and succesful" sports' do, with genuine "worth winning" Championships..

Secondly. A complete lack of capability (or maybe desire?) in marketing the sport nationally through a nationally recognised marketing company, instead we have tracks doing "their very best" locally, using well meaning amateurs, (although trying to sell the current operating model would be beyond even the best advertising agencies I would think)..

And Thirdly. A lack of a consistently successful national team with which to live off the coat tails of. Ten to Fifteen years from now of GB winning individual and team events, including Test Matches, would paint a very different picture for the sport domestically than it does today. 

(Yet in the 2nd Div we dont even have Rising Stars which tells us all we need to know about how important growth and development of GB riders is to some)..

The whole thing is fragmented and disjointed, and unless it every comes together under one voice leadership then it is never going to be successful.. 

Succesful sports have successful leaders in charge, making tough decisions for the greater good. Leaders who have contacts in the wider media, marketing and business world..

Should Speedway ever allow itself to have the same, then it has a chance..

If it chooses to persist in following its narrow minded, myopic operating model and business plan then it wont..