GWC Posted July 6, 2022 Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 Does it have a future and if not what is to be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted July 6, 2022 Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 If you mean the Premiership, well not in its current form with too many variables coming into play, as it is is the number of clubs is not really good enough ie too many matches against the same club. Next season may see some changes ....Swindon may re join the League, Peterborough’s future is uncertain , will Oxford move up, plus the shortage of riders. Big changes are needed for both leagues but will.there be enough drive from the BSPL to go the extra mile.... Add in the state of the economy putting strain on promoters , riders and fans .....well see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 6, 2022 Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 needs another 4 teams and I doubt Swindon will be one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted July 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 Yes of course the Premiership but as you have said it’s too few teams and lacks verity. The promoters want a strong league to sell to TV but the fans have to lump it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted July 10, 2022 Report Share Posted July 10, 2022 I'm not sure it's just a case of the premiership. 16 'professional' tracks in the UK and not enough riders to fill those without doubling up & guests. I haven't looked to see how many riders double up frankly I have better things to do, however I would suggest if doubling up was taken away you might have enough riders to fill 6 teams? Radical overall required as has been the case for probably the last 20-30 years . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted July 10, 2022 Report Share Posted July 10, 2022 1 hour ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: I'm not sure it's just a case of the premiership. 16 'professional' tracks in the UK and not enough riders to fill those without doubling up & guests. I haven't looked to see how many riders double up frankly I have better things to do, however I would suggest if doubling up was taken away you might have enough riders to fill 6 teams? Radical overall required as has been the case for probably the last 20-30 years . ....and yet the sport still continues as long as there are stadia that agree to host it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25yearfan Posted July 10, 2022 Report Share Posted July 10, 2022 Needs to go to 2 Leagues - A professional League of all the clubs that can afford it at a level similar to the current Championship and call it the British League. 6 man teams will help as regards the rider shortage. A second tier at a level a bit higher than the present NL retaining the NL name. Only Commonwealth and British riders can ride in this League. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 10, 2022 Report Share Posted July 10, 2022 27 minutes ago, 25yearfan said: Needs to go to 2 Leagues - A professional League of all the clubs that can afford it at a level similar to the current Championship and call it the British League. 6 man teams will help as regards the rider shortage. A second tier at a level a bit higher than the present NL retaining the NL name. Only Commonwealth and British riders can ride in this League. wd more likely need 5 man teams, but it works elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 10, 2022 Report Share Posted July 10, 2022 8 hours ago, Skidder1 said: ....and yet the sport still continues as long as there are stadia that agree to host it! Still continues agreed, but with an ever dwindling number of clubs almost annually... Eventually that can only end one way cant it? And "stiil continues" is sadly more towards to "still exists" than "still prospers"... Which should be the true measure of any entity... If the Polish riding superstars are allowed back that would provide more riders, and also generate a fair amount of interest.. Hopefully Discovery's deep pockets can help bankroll that level of rider back.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted July 10, 2022 Report Share Posted July 10, 2022 couple of factors to halt what needs to be done. 1. TV money split between 10 or even 8 instead of 6 reduces the revenue receipts for the existing 6. Those that move up lose streaming receipts, replaced by TV money? 2. Remove doubling up and the riders increase their rates to compensate. The lack of available riders gives them a strong bargaining position. 6 or even 5 man teams might help but would riding 5 heats per meeting compensate for riding in two leagues? In summary each team has less revenue and at the same time their costs go up. Not very appealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted July 10, 2022 Report Share Posted July 10, 2022 8 hours ago, Skidder1 said: ....and yet the sport still continues as long as there are stadia that agree to host it! But to half the clubs that were in existence when I started attending in 89 and those in attendance at the remaining venues has at least halved since then. The race to the bottom continues apace! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 11, 2022 Report Share Posted July 11, 2022 12 hours ago, enotian said: couple of factors to halt what needs to be done. 1. TV money split between 10 or even 8 instead of 6 reduces the revenue receipts for the existing 6. Those that move up lose streaming receipts, replaced by TV money? 2. Remove doubling up and the riders increase their rates to compensate. The lack of available riders gives them a strong bargaining position. 6 or even 5 man teams might help but would riding 5 heats per meeting compensate for riding in two leagues? In summary each team has less revenue and at the same time their costs go up. Not very appealing. riding more fixtures remember - and coming up against other top boys less regularly, so yes to a degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuxtonTiger Posted July 11, 2022 Report Share Posted July 11, 2022 14 hours ago, mikebv said: Still continues agreed, but with an ever dwindling number of clubs almost annually... Eventually that can only end one way cant it? And "stiil continues" is sadly more towards to "still exists" than "still prospers"... Which should be the true measure of any entity... If the Polish riding superstars are allowed back that would provide more riders, and also generate a fair amount of interest.. Hopefully Discovery's deep pockets can help bankroll that level of rider back.. How can we possibly have the Polish superstars back? Who is going to pay for them with current crowds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted July 11, 2022 Report Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: But to half the clubs that were in existence when I started attending in 89 and those in attendance at the remaining venues has at least halved since then. The race to the bottom continues apace! Yes but the reduction of speedway clubs has been as much to do with stadium closures as it has been the fault of speedway promotions!! You surely can't blame the speedway clubs at Coventry, Lakeside, Somerset and Swindon for example! They would all still be racing if the stadia were available. Edited July 11, 2022 by Skidder1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baiden Posted July 11, 2022 Report Share Posted July 11, 2022 52 minutes ago, BuxtonTiger said: How can we possibly have the Polish superstars back? Who is going to pay for them with current crowds. While pay is an issue for the superstars, it's more volume of matches that are keeping some of the B-List riders away I think. Attracting the A-Listers will be difficult, but there's definitely scope for more stars to come back if they didn't have to race in as many meetings. Remove the Polish rule, reduce the amount of meetings, and I'm sure there would be far more interest from riders (I hope). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted July 11, 2022 Report Share Posted July 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, baiden said: While pay is an issue for the superstars, it's more volume of matches that are keeping some of the B-List riders away I think. Attracting the A-Listers will be difficult, but there's definitely scope for more stars to come back if they didn't have to race in as many meetings. Remove the Polish rule, reduce the amount of meetings, and I'm sure there would be far more interest from riders (I hope). Whichever Prem club they could sign for, there are only 5 other teams so 'racing in so many meetings' shouldn't be an issue!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baiden Posted July 11, 2022 Report Share Posted July 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, Skidder1 said: Whichever Prem club they could sign for, there are only 5 other teams so 'racing in so many meetings' shouldn't be an issue!? There may only be 5 other teams, but you're still talking a maximum of 36 meetings a year (20 league meetings, 4 playoff meetings, 6 cup matches and 6 pairs rounds - plus anything else I may have forgotten). Even in a worst/best case scenario that a team doesn't reach the playoffs/cup final and the rider doesn't compete in the pairs, it's still 24 meetings per year. Far more than many would like if they are also riding elsewhere in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 11, 2022 Report Share Posted July 11, 2022 6 hours ago, BuxtonTiger said: How can we possibly have the Polish superstars back? Who is going to pay for them with current crowds. As I say, Discovery would need to have deep pockets.. If they are serious on their promises to make Speedway a bigger global brand, then a resurgence in the UK would be quite fundamental to it happening I would think.. Every place a Polish riding star takes is one less DU if nothing else... Losing the "3 club" rule will also free up a fair few 2nd and 3rd level riders too, which again will reduce the spaces to DU... As you say, attendances won't pay the increases, but Discovery might... And then maybe attendances will rise significantly off the back of it...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted July 11, 2022 Report Share Posted July 11, 2022 11 hours ago, ch958 said: riding more fixtures remember - and coming up against other top boys less regularly, so yes to a degree. they wouldn't be riding more fixtures would they. If you look at league fixtures only (assume cups and Play Offs are as is) they're doing 20 PL and 20 or 18 CL. With a 10 team PL you'd be doing a max 36. So not too much difference but that's only if the PL clubs want to stage 18 home fixtures as opposed to the current 10? They're more likely to only want to stage 9 home fixtures (so as not to dilute the TV and sponsorship income) which would mean a rider going from c38 league matches to 18 league matches. and if the teams are reduced to six men then you probably end up facing the top riders just as often. the sums just don't add up for clubs or riders regardless of it being the right thing to do. reality is that the revised structure won't deliver the increases through the turnstiles to allow the clubs to afford the increases in rider rates, to compensate them for the reduced number of fixtures. the Pandora's box of doubling up once opened is difficult to close 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, enotian said: they wouldn't be riding more fixtures would they. If you look at league fixtures only (assume cups and Play Offs are as is) they're doing 20 PL and 20 or 18 CL. With a 10 team PL you'd be doing a max 36. So not too much difference but that's only if the PL clubs want to stage 18 home fixtures as opposed to the current 10? They're more likely to only want to stage 9 home fixtures (so as not to dilute the TV and sponsorship income) which would mean a rider going from c38 league matches to 18 league matches. and if the teams are reduced to six men then you probably end up facing the top riders just as often. the sums just don't add up for clubs or riders regardless of it being the right thing to do. reality is that the revised structure won't deliver the increases through the turnstiles to allow the clubs to afford the increases in rider rates, to compensate them for the reduced number of fixtures. the Pandora's box of doubling up once opened is difficult to close I suppose if the Poles relax the rules you could get those 3rd/4th/5th level riders (who make up the majority of places in teams), being able to ride "all over" again to compensate... France, Italy, Germany, Denmark, Sweden could all "chip in" to dilute the impact of DU'ing being reduced? One league in the UK, Poland, and three or four of the above would deliver a fair few rides and plenty of money I would think.. Fixed nights would come into their own then too, as Div 1 over here would facilitate a rider to ride everywhere apart from Sweden on a Thursday.. Div 2 would have issues though as it would be their HL's now plying their trade around Europe again.. Edited July 12, 2022 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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