Gaz Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 I think the payment thing would be a good idea as some people may want to put more in and some people a little less but it would all help. I also know of a few people who would not mind putting season ticket refund into a pot and if say 50 season ticket holders did this there would be over 5k straight away. All ideas are vital and should be listened to at this stage. So everyone should keep putting ideas forward 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacca Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 Regarding sponsors, I am a heat sponsor and have received no communication from the promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justgotmecpc Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, bloom89 said: Did Congreve do enough meetings to become an asset? Not that it makes much difference now I suppose. Yeah he did I think Edited June 25, 2022 by Justgotmecpc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justgotmecpc Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 2 hours ago, speedy19902006 said: First of all for myself, I was one who gave Rob more slack than most, the way I seen it was that he put his hand in his pocket (twice over if things are to be totally believed) when others were not prepared to and essentially gave Newcastle the stay of execution that would have been 3 years ago or whatever it was - and to be honest for that fair play to him he was prepared to give it ago when it seemed that others would not, so to keep an argument somewhat balanced and constructive I think he needs credit for doing that. And in business / life it is always far easier to spend someone else's money than it is your own... ***HOWEVER*** (before I get my head detached before people read to the end of this post ) 1) I cannot stomach what essentially feels like totally lies now in an attempt to essentially liquidate the assets whilst under the guise of "doing it now to give Newcastle the best chance later" this is utter rubbish - as what is well documented now and proven with the sale of track equipment and such like, seems to me like he said one thing to keep the heat off him whilst doing something totally at odds with his statement in the other all underhand and devoid of transparency and integrity. 2) What boils by proverbial urine to be honest and probably leaves a bitter taste in the mouth of fans (which I suspect Rob probably does not understand) is the air fence debacle. And this cannot be sorely put onto Robs toes and the previous ownership need to bare some responsibility, however (and please correct me if I am wrong but this is / was my understanding) the air fence was afforded through a just giving page and whip round at the time the regulations came in (or this is how my memory serves me anyway) meaning all clubs had to have one to operate. That and I believe a few large singular donations from individual fans allowed the air fence or a vast majority of it to be bought. Therefore to sell it off to try and recoup monies lost just seems unethical and wrong to be honest and this is a point I will further explain further down in looking to any future we may have. But for the ownership that Rob bought from to use the gesture of the fans and such like to inevitably increase the sale price as its another asset with value to purchase that is integral to running a meeting is kind of wrong in my opinion - however seems like Rob also sees it as fair game. 3) Given the very publicised sponsorships the club received from various generous business, families and individuals - I am sure this would have been done on the understanding that essentially sponsors and people putting their money in, heat sponsors, race day programme advertisements etc etc that they were doing so expecting to get March to Septembers worth of advertisement (race day banners, pictures, website advertisement etc etc) in return for their hard earned money... Surely given the debacle they should be looking for some sort of pro-rata refund on what they did not get against what they initially put in? 4) What are the ramifications on the other co-owners / an or promoters who put money in? Do they get anything back? Surely this cannot be just Robs decision to make, they must have some course of action they could take? 5) All the actions talked about in this thread seem to me to be the actions of a person who has no intention of speedway running again at Newcastle, selling the assets to run a meeting removes any / all value, the only thing it seems he could sell would be the name? Not to hard to get around in the future I'm sure..."Newcastle Pheonix's" (for one year only as its a crap name but would be great before reverting to something more akin to the Diamonds or Diamunds ") The Future Going back to further explain point 2 and why I think it is extremely important is I think we all feel totally short changed by the various cash injections and donation fans have put into the club over the years for promoters and owners to essentially use it somewhat. However I do think we can learn an important lesson from it. Given that the club (if anything is left of it) will or will be near as dammit asset less I think now more than ever the idea of a supporters trust is vital to any possibility of speedway running again in any capacity at Newcastle. Anyone who went to the last meeting at Gosforth and listened to the excellent explanation to the complexities of running a fund and giving the club money by @TotallyHonestJohn will understand it is far to complex, and legally a nightmare to attempt / do. However I do think this shower of rubbish scenario we find ourselves in shows giving the club money and continual whip-rounds does nobody nor the supporter any favour in the long term. However I do believe that this gives us an opportunity to re-think the idea of a supporters fund where by the supporters fund can purchase such things like tractors and track equipment and effectively loan / lease these items to a club/ owner/ promoter for a basic / minimal fee. If this were the case for the air-fence for example it would give the club stability through changes of promoters and owners etc where the assets needed to run a speedway meeting essentially transcend any ownership change. Maybe @TotallyHonestJohn this would remove some of the complexities you so brilliantly talked about and explained in running a supporters club giving / purchasing stuff on the clubs behalf. I do beleive if there is any chance of someone wishing to put speedway on again in Newcastle this would make it hugely more do-able as it is going to be a from scratch start therefore it would surely make it more achievable to a new venture if such items were covered by a supporters club given that any ground up startup costs will be immense! Whilst we have no speedway this could be the time to try and set something up - £10 per month when we are not going to be spending £20-£30 per week as we have no speedway to go to. Such an amount would sharp build up and allow the purchasing of vital assets when / if a new venture were to happen. If nothing happens in the next 5 years all monies to be returned plus any interest generated. Whilst it is ambitious I do think the above issue of supporters money and gifts / cash injections / and fund raises we've had over the years are clearly not handled with the respect and integrity they should have. WE have essentially purchased assets for the club for them to be used to get a outgoing promotion an increased sale price or in this case asset liquidation when in reality there investment in the asset was minimal / non existent yet the promoters / owners are then the beneficiary of the value of the asset. Therefore I think we can think smarter in the future and in the same time provide the club with assets that stay with the club thus increasing long term stability and remove this utter debacle we now find ourselves in. Whilst I fully understand Rob will have lost a shed load of cash in this venture stripping the assets to try and recoup some of his cash / investment just seems totally short sighted and on the above points quite immoral given the statement put out by the owner, and the fact that the main asset was purchased by the fans (albeit under a different promotion and many years ago) it still feels like a sucker punch and such a nail in the coffin to any chance of speedway starting again as to buy a new one is such a large sum of money. I apologise if this is wordy it is my second attempt at typing this - I am sure the first one was better written however I managed to delete my first attempt prior to submitting and this is a hastily wrote and heavily streamlined version. Lastly whilst I am full of ideas and I would love to try and get such an offering of the ground sadly my career would not allow me to hold such a financial position and I simply do not have the time to do it either. But hopefully someone reads this and think it makes sense and could be a go-er and runs with it. Cheers Very well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds85 Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 I'd be happy to put in some money (one off payment) into some 'save the Diamonds' scheme... But I'm a bit sceptical now, after having put so much into Rob's reign and got nothing but woeful teams, boring meetings and many times short changed... I am not very rich as it is, so I am very personally annoyed the way Rob has ran the club the last 2 or 3 years... It's pathetic how he thinks he can just nick off with all this money from the supporters... How can he sell the air fence if the supporters trust purchased it??? It should be property of the supporter's club, sold by the supporter's club (or kept if the chances of us returning are there) and divided up equally between them... But no, Rob's just gonna take the money and run and everyone is gonna let him get away with it... I'm already banned from the Newcastle Diamonds Facebook page now for voicing my opinions there, so I guess we're not allowed opinions, the fans who have been going most our lives... What a joke F you Rob Grant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds85 Posted June 25, 2022 Report Share Posted June 25, 2022 I put so much money into the club with the promise of great things and ideas from Rob and NOTHING came of it... Just the sh!te we've had to watch and put up with the last 2 years... I don't care how much difficulties he had, with the previous promotions and covid, when he had the chance to make things right, do his promotors job, he just made a mockery of all of his fans, took the p!ss then ran off with all our hard earned money!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neila Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 As for the wishfull thinking of Edinburgh coming to Brough Park for a season, I don't think in the present financial climate it would work, too high a cost for fans to travel down every week whether it by bus or car. A lot of local fans won't support any team other than an out and out Newcastle team, did not work for Glasgow at Workington in 1987 and that ended before the season finished due to the poo incident!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceslider Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 9 minutes ago, Neila said: As for the wishfull thinking of Edinburgh coming to Brough Park for a season, I don't think in the present financial climate it would work, too high a cost for fans to travel down every week whether it by bus or car. A lot of local fans won't support any team other than an out and out Newcastle team, did not work for Glasgow at Workington in 1987 and that ended before the season finished due to the poo incident!!! Well it seems there is a precedent. I wonder if anything was learned from that which would make it work at a subsequent attempt to replicate the idea? As you say, wishful thinking but Edinburgh to Newcastle is literally straight down the road. Intrigued with your reference to the “poo” incident and don’t ever remember reading about that in speedway folk lore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbieblackadder fan club Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 It should be made widely public about the air fence so that no one wants to touch it as it’s only going to be a speedway club that buys it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmon Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 9 hours ago, Aceslider said: Interesting comments about trust arrangements and I believe as you say that THJ is well versed in this regard. Wouldn't it be bizarre if the Monarchs who have had this model running successfully for a while I believe, were to temporarily relocate to Brough until such time as they locate a new track. Its only a couple of hours down the coast route and they could easily organise coach parties. I am sure there would be many Diamonds supporters turn out to watch Sam Masters and co race albeit with Monarchs race jackets. They could certainly give us some guidance on how to run this model and who to go to for professional support. Will never happen. A move to Shawfield in '96 almost bankrupted Edinburgh. Once bitten twice shy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloom89 Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 I know it's easy to look back now but it makes you wonder just how much money Rob actually lost, twice he had the begging bowl out last year which the fans came to the rescue, and then the Poole/Plymouth double header was a really good crowd and then the supposed "last" meeting at brough was a huge crowd. Then in the off season apparently we had all these new sponsors who pumped shed loads of money in. Then he put a sub standard team out and he couldn't have paid much points money this season? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo95 Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 14 minutes ago, bloom89 said: I know it's easy to look back now but it makes you wonder just how much money Rob actually lost, twice he had the begging bowl out last year which the fans came to the rescue, and then the Poole/Plymouth double header was a really good crowd and then the supposed "last" meeting at brough was a huge crowd. Then in the off season apparently we had all these new sponsors who pumped shed loads of money in. Then he put a sub standard team out and he couldn't have paid much points money this season? Read the bit about Birmingham in the speedway star this week and I would assume Newcastle etc would be in a similar situation. Did someone not mention £000's a week earlier. With regards the air fence most promoters run meetings to part pay for them so I would assume they would have known where they come from. Did the previous promotion charge Rob for the fence and not say where it came from. If this is the case I would be looking to blame the previous owners. I agree with most other points the fans are making though (I was one of them that put money towards the crowdfunding page) especially the heat sponsor who hasn't been contacted. Hopefully we see Newcastle back next season along with various other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyretrax Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 The poo incident had nothing to do with the Glasgow/Workington closure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 Maybe he might want to ask his mates to put details on here of how much the club is up for sale for, confirm details about the air fence and anything else he wants to! Communication not his strong point so always has to go through other people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff100 Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 27 minutes ago, tyretrax said: The poo incident had nothing to do with the Glasgow/Workington closure. It didnt help,dont think the track had been looked at from previous meeting local farmer and comets fan turned up with "water" and cow s*** and covered the track and some fans on back straight then left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff100 Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 9 minutes ago, Gaz said: Maybe he might want to ask his mates to put details on here of how much the club is up for sale for, confirm details about the air fence and anything else he wants to! Communication not his strong point so always has to go through other people Went to several meeting never once saw him in the pits trying to gee up the team,and at last meeting was cooking burgers total p take . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, geoff100 said: Went to several meeting never once saw him in the pits trying to gee up the team,and at last meeting was cooking burgers total p take . Totally agree, didn’t see team manager geeing up the team or trying to motivate them either, it was tough to watch Edited June 26, 2022 by Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winditon Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 12 hours ago, speedy19902006 said: First of all for myself, I was one who gave Rob more slack than most, the way I seen it was that he put his hand in his pocket (twice over if things are to be totally believed) when others were not prepared to and essentially gave Newcastle the stay of execution that would have been 3 years ago or whatever it was - and to be honest for that fair play to him he was prepared to give it ago when it seemed that others would not, so to keep an argument somewhat balanced and constructive I think he needs credit for doing that. And in business / life it is always far easier to spend someone else's money than it is your own... ***HOWEVER*** (before I get my head detached before people read to the end of this post ) 1) I cannot stomach what essentially feels like totally lies now in an attempt to essentially liquidate the assets whilst under the guise of "doing it now to give Newcastle the best chance later" this is utter rubbish - as what is well documented now and proven with the sale of track equipment and such like, seems to me like he said one thing to keep the heat off him whilst doing something totally at odds with his statement in the other all underhand and devoid of transparency and integrity. 2) What boils by proverbial urine to be honest and probably leaves a bitter taste in the mouth of fans (which I suspect Rob probably does not understand) is the air fence debacle. And this cannot be sorely put onto Robs toes and the previous ownership need to bare some responsibility, however (and please correct me if I am wrong but this is / was my understanding) the air fence was afforded through a just giving page and whip round at the time the regulations came in (or this is how my memory serves me anyway) meaning all clubs had to have one to operate. That and I believe a few large singular donations from individual fans allowed the air fence or a vast majority of it to be bought. Therefore to sell it off to try and recoup monies lost just seems unethical and wrong to be honest and this is a point I will further explain further down in looking to any future we may have. But for the ownership that Rob bought from to use the gesture of the fans and such like to inevitably increase the sale price as its another asset with value to purchase that is integral to running a meeting is kind of wrong in my opinion - however seems like Rob also sees it as fair game. 3) Given the very publicised sponsorships the club received from various generous business, families and individuals - I am sure this would have been done on the understanding that essentially sponsors and people putting their money in, heat sponsors, race day programme advertisements etc etc that they were doing so expecting to get March to Septembers worth of advertisement (race day banners, pictures, website advertisement etc etc) in return for their hard earned money... Surely given the debacle they should be looking for some sort of pro-rata refund on what they did not get against what they initially put in? 4) What are the ramifications on the other co-owners / an or promoters who put money in? Do they get anything back? Surely this cannot be just Robs decision to make, they must have some course of action they could take? 5) All the actions talked about in this thread seem to me to be the actions of a person who has no intention of speedway running again at Newcastle, selling the assets to run a meeting removes any / all value, the only thing it seems he could sell would be the name? Not to hard to get around in the future I'm sure..."Newcastle Pheonix's" (for one year only as its a crap name but would be great before reverting to something more akin to the Diamonds or Diamunds ") The Future Going back to further explain point 2 and why I think it is extremely important is I think we all feel totally short changed by the various cash injections and donation fans have put into the club over the years for promoters and owners to essentially use it somewhat. However I do think we can learn an important lesson from it. Given that the club (if anything is left of it) will or will be near as dammit asset less I think now more than ever the idea of a supporters trust is vital to any possibility of speedway running again in any capacity at Newcastle. Anyone who went to the last meeting at Gosforth and listened to the excellent explanation to the complexities of running a fund and giving the club money by @TotallyHonestJohn will understand it is far to complex, and legally a nightmare to attempt / do. However I do think this shower of rubbish scenario we find ourselves in shows giving the club money and continual whip-rounds does nobody nor the supporter any favour in the long term. However I do believe that this gives us an opportunity to re-think the idea of a supporters fund where by the supporters fund can purchase such things like tractors and track equipment and effectively loan / lease these items to a club/ owner/ promoter for a basic / minimal fee. If this were the case for the air-fence for example it would give the club stability through changes of promoters and owners etc where the assets needed to run a speedway meeting essentially transcend any ownership change. Maybe @TotallyHonestJohn this would remove some of the complexities you so brilliantly talked about and explained in running a supporters club giving / purchasing stuff on the clubs behalf. I do beleive if there is any chance of someone wishing to put speedway on again in Newcastle this would make it hugely more do-able as it is going to be a from scratch start therefore it would surely make it more achievable to a new venture if such items were covered by a supporters club given that any ground up startup costs will be immense! Whilst we have no speedway this could be the time to try and set something up - £10 per month when we are not going to be spending £20-£30 per week as we have no speedway to go to. Such an amount would sharp build up and allow the purchasing of vital assets when / if a new venture were to happen. If nothing happens in the next 5 years all monies to be returned plus any interest generated. Whilst it is ambitious I do think the above issue of supporters money and gifts / cash injections / and fund raises we've had over the years are clearly not handled with the respect and integrity they should have. WE have essentially purchased assets for the club for them to be used to get a outgoing promotion an increased sale price or in this case asset liquidation when in reality there investment in the asset was minimal / non existent yet the promoters / owners are then the beneficiary of the value of the asset. Therefore I think we can think smarter in the future and in the same time provide the club with assets that stay with the club thus increasing long term stability and remove this utter debacle we now find ourselves in. Whilst I fully understand Rob will have lost a shed load of cash in this venture stripping the assets to try and recoup some of his cash / investment just seems totally short sighted and on the above points quite immoral given the statement put out by the owner, and the fact that the main asset was purchased by the fans (albeit under a different promotion and many years ago) it still feels like a sucker punch and such a nail in the coffin to any chance of speedway starting again as to buy a new one is such a large sum of money. I apologise if this is wordy it is my second attempt at typing this - I am sure the first one was better written however I managed to delete my first attempt prior to submitting and this is a hastily wrote and heavily streamlined version. Lastly whilst I am full of ideas and I would love to try and get such an offering of the ground sadly my career would not allow me to hold such a financial position and I simply do not have the time to do it either. But hopefully someone reads this and think it makes sense and could be a go-er and runs with it. Cheers Some excellent points. Firstly regarding the air fence i was led to believe they only have a certain life span and then have to be replaced. I'm sure someone will correct me on this. Secondly it's a great idea about being supporter funded and there will be plenty of interest initially but when it comes to the crunch of people handing hard earned cash over no matter how big or small it becomes a different matter. Definitely worth giving it a go though. I know THJ looked into how Edinburgh ran theres but not sure he has any interest now. Although he did say in a recent threat how gutted he was now that we are no more longer again. It needs someone like a THJ to try and get us going again even if it's with advice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePark Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 14 hours ago, bloom89 said: Did Congreve do enough meetings to become an asset? Not that it makes much difference now I suppose. 13 hours ago, StevePark said: No. 10 hours ago, Justgotmecpc said: Yeah he did I think As I say above, no he didn't. Oxford would have been his 8th match, but it was abandoned and so doesn't count. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justgotmecpc Posted June 26, 2022 Report Share Posted June 26, 2022 4 hours ago, Neila said: As for the wishfull thinking of Edinburgh coming to Brough Park for a season, I don't think in the present financial climate it would work, too high a cost for fans to travel down every week whether it by bus or car. A lot of local fans won't support any team other than an out and out Newcastle team, did not work for Glasgow at Workington in 1987 and that ended before the season finished due to the poo incident!!! It would be good tho watching Pickering every Sunday & he alone would put at least an extra 400 on the terraces 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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