Newcastle now closed !!!

[StevePark]

4 minutes ago, Biffa said:

If Newcastle did own Adam Roynon he is obviously on loan to Redcar. How does the loan fee work, is it paid monthly or upfront ? If it’s monthly who gets it now. If it’s yearly has Rob Grant already had the money, blown it & is Adam clear to carry on riding for Redcar even though his “owner” has shut his business?

Don't think Adam was ever ours (could be wrong).  IF he was then, usually, the loan fee is paid up front.  And, now Newcastle are no more, all of their assets become assets of the BSPL.

[Biffa]

Thank you both for the replies. Strange rules at times. 

[Diamondboy]

4 minutes ago, StevePark said:

Don't think Adam was ever ours (could be wrong).  IF he was then, usually, the loan fee is paid up front.  And, now Newcastle are no more, all of their assets become assets of the BSPL.

Do assets only go to the BSPL in the case of a bankruptcy? Dunno?

[Neila]

Think all assets, that if Newcastle have any that are worth anything !!!, revert back to bspa (or whatever they call themselves these days ) to potentially pay off any debt's this happens either mid season or in the closed season 

[Diamondboy]

3 minutes ago, Neila said:

Think all assets, that if Newcastle have any that are worth anything !!!, revert back to bspa (or whatever they call themselves these days ) to potentially pay off any debt's this happens either mid season or in the closed season 

But the company is not bankrupt.

[Neila]

7 minutes ago, Diamondboy said:

But the company is not bankrupt.

Yea but has closed down, so bond and riders will revert to bspa, that's how it used to work to stop fly boys pocketing everything, but looks like this one has slipped through the net !!

[Diamondboy]

2 minutes ago, Neila said:

Yea but has closed down, so bond and riders will revert to bspa, that's how it used to work to stop fly boys pocketing everything, but looks like this one has slipped through the net !!

I don’t think you understand. The company has closed but it is still solvent, it will pay its obligations, it will retain its assets. If it fails to pay its obligations then it will be insolvent and therefore will enter bankruptcy and lose any assets it had. 

[mikebv]

4 hours ago, Fromafar said:

Rob Grant Jnr.

Anders Michanek. ....

[leander]

1 hour ago, Diamondboy said:

I don’t think you understand. The company has closed but it is still solvent, it will pay its obligations, it will retain its assets. If it fails to pay its obligations then it will be insolvent and therefore will enter bankruptcy and lose any assets it had. 

But not where the riders are concerned.

The Regulations state:-

If a Promotion ceases to operate, and/or the SCB order an annulment, riders
on that Promotions Retained List shall revert to the BSPA and transfers take
place.

[leander]

4 hours ago, StevePark said:

I think Kenni was bought by Coventry (?)

They never paid!!!!! 

Lee Complin bought at the beginning of the season. What a waste of money that was!!

[ruffdiamond]

12 minutes ago, leander said:

But not where the riders are concerned.

The Regulations state:-

If a Promotion ceases to operate, and/or the SCB order an annulment, riders
on that Promotions Retained List shall revert to the BSPA and transfers take
place.

Yeah, thought a seen if a promotion folded, which a think it has in this case,,, assets are folded in too. Isn't that how we bought/acquired Ludde when, a think Birmingham collapsed mid season a while ago?

[geoff100]

19 minutes ago, leander said:

They never paid!!!!! 

Lee Complin bought at the beginning of the season. What a waste of money that was!!

Ten years out who owned him?

[crescent girl]

37 minutes ago, leander said:

But not where the riders are concerned.

The Regulations state:-

If a Promotion ceases to operate, and/or the SCB order an annulment, riders
on that Promotions Retained List shall revert to the BSPA and transfers take
place.

That's the case.

[bloom89]

3 hours ago, Neila said:

Think all assets, that if Newcastle have any that are worth anything !!!, revert back to bspa (or whatever they call themselves these days ) to potentially pay off any debt's this happens either mid season or in the closed season 

So can we assume this is why he's having a quick fire sale to clear any debts he currently has? 

[bloom89]

6 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Aye you shouldn't type when you are angry... well spotted... £7k... but you knew that...

Matej Kus Ludvig Lingren Anton Rosen Claus Neddermark plausibly James Wright and Adam Roynon and Lee Complin... the two Steve Park gave above and George Congrieve...

Straining the grey cells to think af any oyhers who may still be assets of the club however nothing that mounts to a hill of beans to be fair... Kenni Larsen might even still be on the asset list...

Regards 

THJ

Did Congreve do enough meetings to become an asset? Not that it makes much difference now I suppose. 

[Aceslider]

I stand to be corrected but it was always my understanding that a liquidator/administrator could set aside transactions carried out within 12 months of the "event" (i.e. appointment of liquidator/administrator) if they were not for the benefit of the company or gave undue preference.

I hope Rob has taken advice although it may not be his strong point by all accounts.

[StevePark]

1 hour ago, bloom89 said:

Did Congreve do enough meetings to become an asset? Not that it makes much difference now I suppose. 

No.

[Fromafar]

2 hours ago, leander said:

They never paid!!!!! 

Lee Complin bought at the beginning of the season. What a waste of money that was!!

A pint of lager and a burger,shouldn’t have broke the bank.

[speedy19902006]

First of all for myself, I was one who gave Rob more slack than most, the way I seen it was that he put his hand in his pocket (twice over if things are to be totally believed) when others were not prepared to and essentially gave Newcastle the stay of execution that would have been 3 years ago or whatever it was - and to be honest for that fair play to him he was prepared to give it ago when it seemed that others would not, so to keep an argument somewhat balanced and constructive I think he needs credit for doing that. And in business / life it is always far easier to spend someone else's money than it is your own...

***HOWEVER*** (before I get my head detached before people read to the end of this post )

1) I cannot stomach what essentially feels like totally lies now in an attempt to essentially liquidate the assets whilst under the guise of "doing it now to give Newcastle the best chance later" this is utter rubbish - as what is well documented now and proven with the sale of track equipment and such like, seems to me like he said one thing to keep the heat off him whilst doing something totally at odds with his statement in the other all underhand and devoid of transparency and integrity.

2) What boils by proverbial urine to be honest and probably leaves a bitter taste in the mouth of fans (which I suspect Rob probably does not understand) is the air fence debacle. And this cannot be sorely put onto Robs toes and the previous ownership need to bare some responsibility, however (and please correct me if I am wrong but this is / was my understanding) the air fence was afforded through a just giving page and whip round at the time the regulations came in (or this is how my memory serves me anyway) meaning all clubs had to have one to operate. That and I believe a few large singular donations from individual fans allowed the air fence or a vast majority of it to be bought. Therefore to sell it off to try and recoup monies lost just seems unethical and wrong to be honest and this is a point I will further explain further down in looking to any future we may have. But for the ownership that Rob bought from to use the gesture of the fans and such like to inevitably increase the sale price as its another asset with value to purchase that is integral to running a meeting is kind of wrong in my opinion - however seems like Rob also sees it as fair game.

3) Given the very publicised sponsorships the club received from various generous business, families and individuals - I am sure this would have been done on the understanding that essentially sponsors and people putting their money in, heat sponsors, race day programme advertisements etc etc that they were doing so expecting to get March to Septembers worth of advertisement (race day banners, pictures, website advertisement etc etc) in return for their hard earned money... Surely given the debacle they should be looking for some sort of pro-rata refund on what they did not get against what they initially put in? 

4) What are the ramifications on the other co-owners / an or promoters who put money in? Do they get anything back? Surely this cannot be just Robs decision to make, they must have some course of action they could take?

5) All the actions talked about in this thread seem to me to be the actions of a person who has no intention of speedway running again at Newcastle, selling the assets to run a meeting removes any / all value, the only thing it seems he could sell would be the name? Not to hard to get around in the future I'm sure..."Newcastle Pheonix's" (for one year only as its a crap name but would be great before reverting to something more akin to the Diamonds or Diamunds ")

The Future

Going back to further explain point 2 and why I think it is extremely important is I think we all feel totally short changed by the various cash injections and donation fans have put into the club over the years for promoters and owners to essentially use it somewhat. However I do think we can learn an important lesson from it. Given that the club (if anything is left of it) will or will be near as dammit asset less I think now more than ever the idea of a supporters trust is vital to any possibility of speedway running again in any capacity at Newcastle. Anyone who went to the last meeting at Gosforth and listened to the excellent explanation to the complexities of running a fund and giving the club money by @TotallyHonestJohn will understand it is far to complex, and legally a nightmare to attempt / do. However I do think this shower of rubbish scenario we find ourselves in shows giving the club money and continual whip-rounds does nobody nor the supporter any favour in the long term. However I do believe that this gives us an opportunity to re-think the idea of a supporters fund where by the supporters fund can purchase such things like tractors and track equipment and effectively loan / lease these items to a club/ owner/ promoter for a basic / minimal fee. If this were the case for the air-fence for example it would give the club stability through changes of promoters and owners etc where the assets needed to run a speedway meeting essentially transcend any ownership change. Maybe @TotallyHonestJohn this would remove some of the complexities you so brilliantly talked about and explained in running a supporters club giving / purchasing stuff on the clubs behalf. I do beleive if there is any chance of someone wishing to put speedway on again in Newcastle this would make it hugely more do-able as it is going to be a from scratch start therefore it would surely make it more achievable to a new venture if such items were covered by a supporters club given that any ground up startup costs will be immense! Whilst we have no speedway this could be the time to try and set something up - £10 per month when we are not going to be spending £20-£30 per week as we have no speedway to go to. Such an amount would sharp build up and allow the purchasing of vital assets when / if a new venture were to happen. If nothing happens in the next 5 years all monies to be returned plus any interest generated. Whilst it is ambitious I do think the above issue of supporters money and gifts / cash injections / and fund raises we've had over the years are clearly not handled with the respect and integrity they should have. WE have essentially purchased assets for the club for them to be used to get a outgoing promotion an increased sale price or in this case asset liquidation when in reality there investment in the asset was minimal / non existent yet the promoters / owners are then the beneficiary of the value of the asset. Therefore I think we can think smarter in the future and in the same time provide the club with assets that stay with the club thus increasing long term stability and remove this utter debacle we now find ourselves in.

Whilst I fully understand Rob will have lost a shed load of cash in this venture stripping the assets to try and recoup some of his cash / investment just seems totally short sighted and on the above points quite immoral given the statement put out by the owner, and the fact that the main asset was purchased by the fans (albeit under a different promotion and many years ago) it still feels like a sucker punch and such a nail in the coffin to any chance of speedway starting again as to buy a new one is such a large sum of money.

I apologise if this is wordy it is my second attempt at typing this - I am sure the first one was better written however I managed to delete my first attempt prior to submitting and this is a hastily wrote and heavily streamlined version.

Lastly whilst I am full of ideas and I would love to try and get such an offering of the ground sadly my career would not allow me to hold such a financial position and I simply do not have the time to do it either. But hopefully someone reads this and think it makes sense and could be a go-er and runs with it. 

Cheers

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by speedy19902006

[Aceslider]

speedy19902006 I think your post is tremendous and very comprehensive. Full of good ideas and relevant comments.

I had forgotten the history of the air fence and think you are absolutely right and it does raise a very legitimate question over who owns what. Did Rob's company maintain an asset register? I doubt it very much.

Anyone spending money on acquiring assets from him is making themselves exposed to a risk of those assets being reclaimed by the administrator/liquidator.

Interesting comments about trust arrangements and I believe as you say that THJ is well versed in this regard. Wouldn't it be bizarre if the Monarchs who have had this model running successfully for a while I believe, were to temporarily relocate to Brough until such time as they locate a new track. Its only a couple of hours down the coast route and they could easily organise coach parties. I am sure there would be many Diamonds supporters turn out to watch Sam Masters and co race albeit with Monarchs race jackets. They could certainly give us some guidance on how to run this model and who to go to for professional support.

At the end of the day however it needs a "doer" to lead on this sort of thing and Rob certainly fitted into that category but sadly for whatever reason made some bad choices.  Let's just hope that someone will come forward to take a lead on this in the not too distant future.