Poole Pirates Vs Plymouth Gladiators 22 June

[Bendonebunching]

21 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

No he wasn’t rightly excluded

For what? Hard but fair riding?

Hard move granted and he ran Toft out wide. Toft has a throttle. No contact. In Poland Toft would have gone. 

I have only just caught up with last nights meeting on streaming as I was having a sensational evening at Ashton Gate watching Elton John along with 35,000 others. What a night. What a superstar. What a performance!

Quite a bit on controversy last night at Poole. Pirates starting very slowly again and this has to be tackled. Giving the opposition a head start again nearly always leads to failure. A trainee ref making a huge blunder in heat 8 cost Poole dearly. If a rider moves at the tapes but penalises themselves, for gods sake keep you finger off the button until they have got to the back straight before putting on the red lights. A 5-1 gets swapped with rolling rider winning it. 

Plymouth had the perfect guest in Howarth and I expected the worst in heat 15. But we’ll done to Lawson in seeing off the Andersen and Howarth with his steel shoe hanging off.

Here’s a clip of the crash. As can be seen, no contact although they get close. Palm Toft hits some dirt which throws him out to the fence.

 

Watch it on the slow motion , he clearly caught his leg.

[Mike0310]

Oh come on Steve you are so out  of order on this one a lot of. Times  you talk sense but that’s just plain ridiculous if palm toft did that to Lawson you would be going mad.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Mike0310

[Steve Shovlar]

1 minute ago, Bendonebunching said:

Watch it on the slow motion , he clearly caught his leg.

No he didn’t there was always a gap.

I am not saying it wasn’t very hard but at least this shows Toft back wheel hit the dirt berm which threw him to the fence. He saw Lawson, gave a little way, then with Lawson charging under, hit the berm and lost it.  In real time it’s easy to see why the ref excluded Lawson, but he and the crowd were fooled by the speed of the incident. No wonder Lawson when interviewed straight after the heat was so incensed.

[Steve Shovlar]

2 minutes ago, Mike0310 said:

Oh come on Steve you are so out  of order on this one a lot of. Times  you talk sense but that’s just plain ridiculous if palm toft did that to Lawson you would be going mad.

Sorry I am standing my ground here. Lawson comes in hard under Toft, Toft gives way as can be seen, then he loses it and hits fence. No contact, very hard riding granted, but watch Toft. Gives way then his berm and straightens. Like I said I can understand watching live why the call was made, but video proves it was wrong call.

[Bendonebunching]

3 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

No he didn’t there was always a gap.

I am not saying it wasn’t very hard but at least this shows Toft back wheel hit the dirt berm which threw him to the fence. He saw Lawson, gave a little way, then with Lawson charging under, hit the berm and lost it.  In real time it’s easy to see why the ref excluded Lawson, but he and the crowd were fooled by the speed of the incident. No wonder Lawson when interviewed straight after the heat was so incensed.

Sorry , but if you freeze frame at the right moment there is contact,  I know you are completely biased where Poole is concerned but you can't defend this.

[Steve Shovlar]

Just now, Bendonebunching said:

Sorry , but if you freeze frame at the right moment there is contact,  I know you are completely biased where Poole is concerned but you can't defend this.

There was no contact. You are seeing one part of a bike behind the other bike. 

I am not trying to defend the undefendable. There were some terrible calls last night. Heat 8 when Poole on a 5-1 and ref calls it back as Plymouth rider rolled and ends up a Plymouth heat advantage. Heat 14 when I expected Ben Cook to be excluded. Heat 14 when Poole were called 5-1 when it was almost impossible to call it.

In heat 15 I actually expected Lawson steel shoe to fly off and bring down Hans, such was the way the meeting was going.

Well done to Plymouth on the draw. Deserved against a mis-firing Pirates team who are not showing what they are actually capable of at the moment.

[Trees]

11 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

No he wasn’t rightly excluded

For what? Hard but fair riding?

Hard move granted and he ran Toft out wide. Toft has a throttle. No contact. In Poland Toft would have gone. 

I have only just caught up with last nights meeting on streaming as I was having a sensational evening at Ashton Gate watching Elton John along with 35,000 others. What a night. What a superstar. What a performance!

Quite a bit on controversy last night at Poole. Pirates starting very slowly again and this has to be tackled. Giving the opposition a head start again nearly always leads to failure. A trainee ref making a huge blunder in heat 8 cost Poole dearly. If a rider moves at the tapes but penalises themselves, for gods sake keep you finger off the button until they have got to the back straight before putting on the red lights. A 5-1 gets swapped with rolling rider winning it. 

Plymouth had the perfect guest in Howarth and I expected the worst in heat 15. But we’ll done to Lawson in seeing off the Andersen and Howarth with his steel shoe hanging off.

Here’s a clip of the crash. As can be seen, no contact although they get close. Palm Toft hits some dirt which throws him out to the fence.

 

Christ, poor MPT, his bogey track, thinking back to the robbery of the Stars by the Pirates in 2018

[Steve Shovlar]

22 minutes ago, Trees said:

Christ, poor MPT, his bogey track, thinking back to the robbery of the Stars by the Pirates in 2018

Robbery? Ref called it not Poole. Pirates were too strong for Lynn regardless.

[Trees]

Just now, Steve Shovlar said:

Robbery? Ref called it not Poole. Pirates were too strong for Lynn regardless.

Ref was Matt's best m8!

[HGould]

27 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

There was no contact. You are seeing one part of a bike behind the other bike. 

I am not trying to defend the undefendable. There were some terrible calls last night. Heat 8 when Poole on a 5-1 and ref calls it back as Plymouth rider rolled and ends up a Plymouth heat advantage. Heat 14 when I expected Ben Cook to be excluded. Heat 14 when Poole were called 5-1 when it was almost impossible to call it.

In heat 15 I actually expected Lawson steel shoe to fly off and bring down Hans, such was the way the meeting was going.

Well done to Plymouth on the draw. Deserved against a mis-firing Pirates team who are not showing what they are actually capable of at the moment.

So you weren't there but happy to contradict fair minded Poole fans who were there who outed Lawson for dangerous Riding. 

It's clearly dangerous and thankfully MPT was relative unscathed. 

[HGould]

1 hour ago, Steve Shovlar said:

No he wasn’t rightly excluded

For what? Hard but fair riding?

Hard move granted and he ran Toft out wide. Toft has a throttle. No contact. In Poland Toft would have gone. 

I have only just caught up with last nights meeting on streaming as I was having a sensational evening at Ashton Gate watching Elton John along with 35,000 others. What a night. What a superstar. What a performance!

Quite a bit on controversy last night at Poole. Pirates starting very slowly again and this has to be tackled. Giving the opposition a head start again nearly always leads to failure. A trainee ref making a huge blunder in heat 8 cost Poole dearly. If a rider moves at the tapes but penalises themselves, for gods sake keep you finger off the button until they have got to the back straight before putting on the red lights. A 5-1 gets swapped with rolling rider winning it. 

Plymouth had the perfect guest in Howarth and I expected the worst in heat 15. But we’ll done to Lawson in seeing off the Andersen and Howarth with his steel shoe hanging off.

Here’s a clip of the crash. As can be seen, no contact although they get close. Palm Toft hits some dirt which throws him out to the fence.

 

In Poland Toft most definitely wouldn't have gone. 

Lawson had he done that in Poland would have been lucky to walk out of the stadium. 

[Steve Shovlar]

13 minutes ago, HGould said:

In Poland Toft most definitely wouldn't have gone. 

Lawson had he done that in Poland would have been lucky to walk out of the stadium. 

You clearly don’t watch Polish speedway every Friday and Sunday. I didn’t need to be there as the camera doesn’t lie. 

[poole keith]

good to see the video proves the ref has made the correct decision,not a difficult one at that,also personally vindicates my original feelings at the meeting last night, pretty clear to most people i think

[WeymouthPirate]

Firstly, congratulations must go to Plymouth on their fine win,  sorry they didn't win did they....

In all seriousness, it would've been a comfortable away win if MPT hadn't had his accident. Although contact is minimal, if any at all, I don't have any real complaints about Lawson going. It is a hard move, not a dangerous move but a hard move that does cause MPT to come off. To those who are saying that its a disgraceful move from Lawson, then I don't believe this sport is for you...

Track was poor in my eyes. Not enough water put down before or during the meeting with dust appearing right from the beginning. 

Also, Bowtell giving it the big one to the main stand after Heat 14, only to be given third was a personal highlight. Especially after Heat 8. Even if I do feel he got second ahead of Cook.

Poole need changes I feel, I would have to do the maths and check the averages but a couple of changes such as Adam Ellis & Anders Rowe for Danny King & Nathan Ablitt wouldn't be the worst move in the world I feel. The Nathan experiment, whilst I understand why its being done, I feel would only work if every side in the league had a 2.00 at No 7. Both Ablitt & McGurk were comfortably behind on all occasions. Not miles off the pace but not really causing any problems.

Onto Berwick next week, only Bomber to deal with....Looking forward to seeing Knudsen ride, if he doesn't have Danish commitments that is.

[Bald Bloke]

51 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Sorry I am standing my ground here. Lawson comes in hard under Toft, Toft gives way as can be seen, then he loses it and hits fence. No contact, very hard riding granted, but watch Toft. Gives way then his berm and straightens. Like I said I can understand watching live why the call was made, but video proves it was wrong call.

Lawson to blame for me. Lawson comes in wayyy to hard, Tofty can see what's going to happen. Toft has 2 choices, 1,He comes off the throttle for a slit second and tries to get out of the way, which he did.. That caused the bike to straighten up for a split second, the bike grips and he's in the fence.  2. Keep screwed on and get obliterated in between Lawson and the fence.

It looks like his elbow might of caught Lawsons bike as wel. If there wasn't contact somewhere i'd be shocked. I'm sure Richard didn't mean it, but that crossed the line imho. Only one rider at fault there... And i'm a Stars fan...

 

[Mike0310]

I disagree with Steve but I’m not getting into any more of an argument time to move on .if we all agreed on everything life would be very boring.

[Jonnybegood]

1 hour ago, Steve Shovlar said:

No he wasn’t rightly excluded

For what? Hard but fair riding?

Hard move granted and he ran Toft out wide. Toft has a throttle. No contact. In Poland Toft would have gone. 

I have only just caught up with last nights meeting on streaming as I was having a sensational evening at Ashton Gate watching Elton John along with 35,000 others. What a night. What a superstar. What a performance!

Quite a bit on controversy last night at Poole. Pirates starting very slowly again and this has to be tackled. Giving the opposition a head start again nearly always leads to failure. A trainee ref making a huge blunder in heat 8 cost Poole dearly. If a rider moves at the tapes but penalises themselves, for gods sake keep you finger off the button until they have got to the back straight before putting on the red lights. A 5-1 gets swapped with rolling rider winning it. 

Plymouth had the perfect guest in Howarth and I expected the worst in heat 15. But we’ll done to Lawson in seeing off the Andersen and Howarth with his steel shoe hanging off.

Here’s a clip of the crash. As can be seen, no contact although they get close. Palm Toft hits some dirt which throws him out to the fence.

 

I think we will meet another 4 times this year …can’t wait .… 

 

[Arthur54]

5 hours ago, Skidder1 said:

Thanks Steve - finally someone has given some facts.

I've already given my congrats to Plymouth last night when I got in from the meeting.  Poole would surely have lost if MPT had been able to continue.

As to the referee, I think he gave dubious decisions to both teams last night.  As to the Lawson/MPT incident, from my position in the grandstand - which was pretty much directly full on to the riders as they come off turn 4 - MPT was already lifting and heading outwards when Lawson came under him.  Did they touch? yes slightly, but MPT was already out of control on his back wheel by then.

More to the point I really don't know why Danny King chose gates 1&3 to start with as he's gone 2&4 or deferred to heat 15 virtually all season?! The track has had some excellent comments from various riders in recent weeks, but I'd be keen to hear what the riders thought last night? 

Anyway onwards and upwards - its the start of the Summer Trophy next month, so this will all add to the spice!!!!!  You never know, Plymouth may actually compete with 7 of their own riders...................??

There working on using Howarth as we speak 

[ruckerroo]

if the boot was on the other foot shovvy would be screaming blue murder ..

[Bagpuss]

That looked 50/50 to me, Lawson was very hard and it looked like MPT had started to lift anyway but if you look where Lawson ends up I think there is every chance he would have cleaned Toft up anyway had he stood his ground. You could make a case fir either being turfed out.

I'm sure one thing we can all agree on is that if it had been MPT storming under a Poole rider like that the opinion of Shovvy would have been completely the opposite