HGould Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 The British Final as a BSPL / SCB Event should standalone as a ring-fenced National Championsip of the highest importance like it used to be. Ditto the Premier / Championship / NDL titles. The "wild card" has almost become more important and dfelected the pride and importance of being British Champion. SGP is a totally different entity and should remain so. Team GB is an independent entity and has thrived as such at Full and Youth Level although BSPL have interfered negatively with possible GB Fixtures on more than one occasion and caused cancellations. May be it sould be left to Team GB who participate in Events under the SGP and Global banner to pick the "wild card" based on best interests of Team GB and International Riders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 25 minutes ago, HGould said: The British Final as a BSPL / SCB Event should standalone as a ring-fenced National Championsip of the highest importance like it used to be. Ditto the Premier / Championship / NDL titles. The "wild card" has almost become more important and dfelected the pride and importance of being British Champion. SGP is a totally different entity and should remain so. Team GB is an independent entity and has thrived as such at Full and Youth Level although BSPL have interfered negatively with possible GB Fixtures on more than one occasion and caused cancellations. May be it sould be left to Team GB who participate in Events under the SGP and Global banner to pick the "wild card" based on best interests of Team GB and International Riders. Not sure that`s a great suggestion when they couldn`t ( or Wouldn`t) field a full team in the final of the major team competition of the season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTheAce Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 Just listened to the official podcast. There is a very good bit with rob Godfrey explaining what happened on Monday. It’s worth a listen. also states that the final will most likely be rerun in September sometime back in Manchester and that’s it’s probably not going to be a Monday. hopefully Saturday night British final will be back 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 9 hours ago, orion said: Why would that have been fair . Not every rider had ridden v each other had the same gates etc etc..The meeting was quite righty declared null and void so people need to stop going on about who scored what as it's has zero bearing on the picking of the wildcard.. I never said it was! All I was saying was that those were the set down rules, to which the riders objected, to clear up the point that the BSPA had no idea what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 12 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said: I never said it was! All I was saying was that those were the set down rules, to which the riders objected, to clear up the point that the BSPA had no idea what to do. Sorry Speedy .I read your post wrong . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc131 Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 7 hours ago, archie21 said: How about a rule change for 2023. To be considered to be selected you must ride for a British Club. Controversial yes but it will give the riders who race in the U.K regular more of a chance to be considered then the riders who to choose to ride only on the continent and claim not to be asked to ride. No rule change needed if they get offered it and take good on them, think its clear to see the progress bewley has made from just racing abroad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanBrannan Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 4 hours ago, PhilTheAce said: Just listened to the official podcast. There is a very good bit with rob Godfrey explaining what happened on Monday. It’s worth a listen. also states that the final will most likely be rerun in September sometime back in Manchester and that’s it’s probably not going to be a Monday. hopefully Saturday night British final will be back Cheers Phil, he said that it would likely be on a Sunday but TBC obviously. Hopefully it explains things a bit, and a long chat with Lemo this week too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismorton Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 4 hours ago, PhilTheAce said: Just listened to the official podcast. There is a very good bit with rob Godfrey explaining what happened on Monday. It’s worth a listen. also states that the final will most likely be rerun in September sometime back in Manchester and that’s it’s probably not going to be a Monday. hopefully Saturday night British final will be back Did he say if it was gonna be on TV?...I bet it isn't with crappy Eurosport...imagine the uproar if the FA cup final replay not being showed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 1 hour ago, chrismorton said: Did he say if it was gonna be on TV?...I bet it isn't with crappy Eurosport...imagine the uproar if the FA cup final replay not being showed... Maybe it is free from the constraint of Europsorts coverage now it has already been ran? Or maybe Eurosport cannot fit it in? Streamed maybe? Either way, it is an opportunity to experiment with the night it gets ran so a Saturday ticks a lot of boxes I would think.. The season started with a big crowd at the NSS for the PCMM so ending with another one would send it off well into the close season... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 On 8/2/2022 at 10:33 AM, Grachan said: When the meeting reached heat 12 it was raining but the track was still ok. They knew they couldn't complete it, so I do think they could have a final right after heat 12. Instead they faffed about for too long and that opportunity was lost. Failing that, I don't think it is too difficult to call the meeting with Brennen as champion considering he had beaten Bewley, whilst Harris had beaten neither of them. Once there was no result called, then I have no problem with Adam getting the Wild Card as he is still British Champion, but apparently the rules say a result can be called if 12 heats are completed, and, considering there was a ride at Cardiff at stake, I think there could have been a result. I can't agree with Brennan being Champ, when 3 riders were tied - not fair to say Harris had beaten neither as he never got to race either of them. I could agree with having a quick run-off for the Cardiff spot between Harris & Brennan before the rain got worse. But not to decide the British Champion, as to me Nicholls, Steve Worrall etc were well in the mix, so better to re-stage the meeting & get a clear winner! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 On 8/2/2022 at 3:06 PM, Grachan said: It would just be countback between the 3. Anyone else is irrelevant. For me, in terms of hierarchy, it would go Brennen over Bewley, with Harris third having not raced either (through no fault of his own), but I admit it would be contentious. That just seems the logical order in my mind. On 8/2/2022 at 3:10 PM, baiden said: So you're saying Chris Harris would have finished THIRD because didn't race either of them? I've heard it all now. Have to agree, has to be the worst way to split ties, ranked lower because you didn't race the others! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 (edited) Nutshell: Not sure of the exact regs or rider opinions on then night but as the meeting didn't reach a satisfactory result to 'just let the previous winner keep the title' is a new rule on me. Obviously very disapponting to the riders well in the running, gotta feel for Harris & Brennan in particular, and surely once the meeting, pretty much any meeting, starts there is no holder of the title as it is effectively vacant and so up for grabs. Of the top of my head way back 1977 the then World Junior Final, now World U21, after 3 rides each (I think) the meeting was rained off with Joe Owen & Alf Busk, and maybe Les Collins, tied on 9 points so a coin toss decided the winner, which was Busk. Ok many moons ago and an FIM event, opposed to an SCB / BSPL meeting, but the coin toss was between the two 2 (or 3) leading riders at the time of the stoppage. (can't recall anymore as it's 2.49am & I'm v tired) TBF Ellis didn't look too happy at still being British Champion and securing the Cardiff GP Wild Card given the circumstances, but sadly the 2022 British Final had an unsatisfactory ending for everyone..... Edited August 4, 2022 by martinmauger mistakes due to tiredness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 12 hours ago, mc131 said: No rule change needed if they get offered it and take good on them, think its clear to see the progress bewley has made from just racing abroad Fair play to Dan and Lambert who were not afraid to jump in to the toughest League and try to progress rather than stay in comfort zones. It's clear to see how quickly Brennan has done the same, he would probably not have progressed as quickly had circumstances not forced his hand and it's sad they did but every cloud has a silver lining and circumstances made his mnd up but moving to Belle Vue and Glasgow, power big tracks has bought him on far quicker than had he stayed in his comfort zone at Eastbourne. He needs to be riding in Polish middle tier regularly next season to ensure he keeps up with some of his Under 24 peers in Poland , Czech and Scandinavia. No reason he can't do that and ride for BV and Glasgow either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc131 Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 51 minutes ago, HGould said: Fair play to Dan and Lambert who were not afraid to jump in to the toughest League and try to progress rather than stay in comfort zones. It's clear to see how quickly Brennan has done the same, he would probably not have progressed as quickly had circumstances not forced his hand and it's sad they did but every cloud has a silver lining and circumstances made his mnd up but moving to Belle Vue and Glasgow, power big tracks has bought him on far quicker than had he stayed in his comfort zone at Eastbourne. He needs to be riding in Polish middle tier regularly next season to ensure he keeps up with some of his Under 24 peers in Poland , Czech and Scandinavia. No reason he can't do that and ride for BV and Glasgow either. Agree he needs that but further down then line if he doesn't do uk like the others I would want them in national championship 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 5 minutes ago, mc131 said: Agree he needs that but further down then line if he doesn't do uk like the others I would want them in national championship I agree Tai, Dan , Robert should have invites to British Final. If they decline fair enough. British Champion should be a badge of great honour like it used to be. Not a Pass in to a GP at Cardiff or a Competition of "the best of the rest". In 5 years it's possible the 10 best British riders WILL be riding in Poland regularly and may only ride in UK when it suits. The situation in Sweden may be a bigger factor there than anything though as if UK becomes better "second option" than Sweden then who knows. The British Final should be marketed as "the very best of britain" (by birth) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 Just now, HGould said: I agree Tai, Dan , Robert should have invites to British Final. If they decline fair enough. British Champion should be a badge of great honour like it used to be. Not a Pass in to a GP at Cardiff or a Competition of "the best of the rest". In 5 years it's possible the 10 best British riders WILL be riding in Poland regularly and may only ride in UK when it suits. The situation in Sweden may be a bigger factor there than anything though as if UK becomes better "second option" than Sweden then who knows. The British Final should be marketed as "the very best of britain" (by birth) By birth …..? so no Mark Loram ? no Adam Ellis ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 53 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said: By birth …..? so no Mark Loram ? no Adam Ellis ? Maybe "birth right" would have been a better phrase to use? Good luck to Adam in Cardiff... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Jonny the spud said: By birth …..? so no Mark Loram ? no Adam Ellis ? yeah that landed wrong, I meant British Passport - clearly Mark and Adam should and would qualify ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 6 hours ago, martinmauger said: Nutshell: Not sure of the exact regs or rider opinions on then night but as the meeting didn't reach a satisfactory result to 'just let the previous winner keep the title' is a new rule on me. Obviously very disapponting to the riders well in the running, gotta feel for Harris & Brennan in particular, and surely once the meeting, pretty much any meeting, starts there is no holder of the title as it is effectively vacant and so up for grabs. Of the top of my head way back 1977 the then World Junior Final, now World U21, after 3 rides each (I think) the meeting was rained off with Joe Owen & Alf Busk, and maybe Les Collins, tied on 9 points so a coin toss decided the winner, which was Busk. Ok many moons ago and an FIM event, opposed to an SCB / BSPL meeting, but the coin toss was between the two 2 (or 3) leading riders at the time of the stoppage. (can't recall anymore as it's 2.49am & I'm v tired) TBF Ellis didn't look too happy at still being British Champion and securing the Cardiff GP Wild Card given the circumstances, but sadly the 2022 British Final had an unsatisfactory ending for everyone..... Ellis was and still is 2021 British Champion. As regards the rules for the 2022 British championship there were only two options within the rules: 1] declare a result using countback regulations, or 2] abandon without a result with the intention to rerun at a later date It appears nobody was happy with option A which would have meant drawing of lots. The choice of Cardiff wildcard is a separate matter and the SCB made a pragmatic and reasonable decision in picking Ellis. PS No lots were involved in 1977 European Junior Championship. Scores after 12 heats: Busk 9, Owen 8, Collins 7. 2005 on the other hand.... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 Good luck to Adam in the GP, most sensible decision to include the current British number One. Cheers Chopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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