SGP Qualifying Heats and Semi-Final.

[a4poster]

With the Speedway Grand Prix I know the top eight scorers progress to the semi-finals but how is it decided which riders go into which semi-final? 

[False dawn]

41 minutes ago, a4poster said:

With the Speedway Grand Prix I know the top eight scorers progress to the semi-finals but how is it decided which riders go into which semi-final? 

A very good question.
I did think, at one time, that I knew. But testing it against what really happens, blew a hole in that theory. 

[Technik]

If you go to the FIM website you can find the rules for the SGP & it will explain how the semi-final & final gate selections are made by the finishing positions after the first 20 heats & how ties are worked out by race wins, seconds & thirds, even how a non finish is rated depending on the reason.

[Humphrey Appleby]

7 hours ago, a4poster said:

With the Speedway Grand Prix I know the top eight scorers progress to the semi-finals but how is it decided which riders go into which semi-final? 

1st, 4th, 6th and 7th to Semi-Final 1

2nd, 3rd, 5th and 8th to Semi-Final 2

Where the confusion may come in is when two or more riders are tied on points after Heat 20, in which case the ranking goes on most wins, most seconds and so on. If that doesn't break the tie, then precedence goes to the higher ranked rider at the start of the season (lowest race jacket number). 

[OveFundinFan]

I just sit back and enjoy the racing. 

[racers and royals]

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

1st, 4th, 6th and 7th to Semi-Final 1

2nd, 3rd, 5th and 8th to Semi-Final 2

Where the confusion may come in is when two or more riders are tied on points after Heat 20, in which case the ranking goes on most wins, most seconds and so on. If that doesn't break the tie, then precedence goes to the higher ranked rider at the start of the season (lowest race jacket number). 

Not quite correct- who beat who when they met comes before ranking.

Edited June 8, 2022 by racers and royals

[Humphrey Appleby]

18 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

Not quite correct- who beat who when they met comes before ranking.

That's what I thought, but the 2022 SGP regs say the following...

9.2. Ties
After the completion of heats 16 or 20
When establishing the order between the riders in the list of intermediate classification at the conclusion of heat 16, 20,
a) Precedence will be given to the riders (tied on race points) having the most number of 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th placings (a “0” for last placing is better than M-R-F-T-d-N).
b) If the tie still persists and involves only 2 riders, precedence will be given to the better placed rider in the heat or heats where the 2 riders met.
c) If the tie still persists and involves more than 2 riders, it shall be checked whether there is a possibility to determine a proper precedence (e.g. 3 riders tied on points: A, B, C:
• Rider A has beaten rider B
• Rider A has beaten rider C
• Rider B has beaten rider C
Then the precedence will be: best position for rider A, then rider B and then rider C.
d) If solutions a), b) and c) cannot resolve the tie, then the rider with the lowest allocated SGP number will be deemed the better placed rider.

[norbold]

49 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

That's what I thought, but the 2022 SGP regs say the following...

9.2. Ties
After the completion of heats 16 or 20
When establishing the order between the riders in the list of intermediate classification at the conclusion of heat 16, 20,
a) Precedence will be given to the riders (tied on race points) having the most number of 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th placings (a “0” for last placing is better than M-R-F-T-d-N).
b) If the tie still persists and involves only 2 riders, precedence will be given to the better placed rider in the heat or heats where the 2 riders met.
c) If the tie still persists and involves more than 2 riders, it shall be checked whether there is a possibility to determine a proper precedence (e.g. 3 riders tied on points: A, B, C:
• Rider A has beaten rider B
• Rider A has beaten rider C
• Rider B has beaten rider C
Then the precedence will be: best position for rider A, then rider B and then rider C.
d) If solutions a), b) and c) cannot resolve the tie, then the rider with the lowest allocated SGP number will be deemed the better placed rider.

That seems to be what r and r said.

[racers and royals]

50 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

That's what I thought, but the 2022 SGP regs say the following...

9.2. Ties
After the completion of heats 16 or 20
When establishing the order between the riders in the list of intermediate classification at the conclusion of heat 16, 20,
a) Precedence will be given to the riders (tied on race points) having the most number of 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th placings (a “0” for last placing is better than M-R-F-T-d-N).
b) If the tie still persists and involves only 2 riders, precedence will be given to the better placed rider in the heat or heats where the 2 riders met.
c) If the tie still persists and involves more than 2 riders, it shall be checked whether there is a possibility to determine a proper precedence (e.g. 3 riders tied on points: A, B, C:
• Rider A has beaten rider B
• Rider A has beaten rider C
• Rider B has beaten rider C
Then the precedence will be: best position for rider A, then rider B and then rider C.
d) If solutions a), b) and c) cannot resolve the tie, then the rider with the lowest allocated SGP number will be deemed the better placed rider.

That’s exactly what i said- reference B. It does get more complicated when more than 2 tie on the same score.

[racers and royals]

1 minute ago, norbold said:

That seems to be what r and r said.

Indeed- great minds think alike !!

[Humphrey Appleby]

29 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

That’s exactly what i said- reference B. It does get more complicated when more than 2 tie on the same score.

Apologies - I read that you said head-to-head took precedence over race finishes.

[chunky]

2 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

I just sit back and enjoy the racing. 

If only more people could do that...

[racers and royals]

9 minutes ago, chunky said:

If only more people could do that...

I for one can’t - i must fill a programme out and then within a few minutes of heat 20 finishing i have to work out GP points for the bottom 8 riders and also Semi final line- ups in draw order. I freeze The live coverage and always beat the semi draw. I then do the top 8 points as soon as the final is over - all this with paper, pen and brain !!!!  I then normally post how wrong the TV captions are !!!!

[Humphrey Appleby]

1 minute ago, racers and royals said:

I for one can’t - i must fill a programme out and then within a few minutes of heat 20 finishing i have to work out GP points for the bottom 8 riders and also Semi final line- ups in draw order. I freeze The live coverage and always beat the semi draw. I then do the top 8 points as soon as the final is over - all this with paper, pen and brain !!!!  I then normally post how wrong the TV captions are !!!!

Filling in the programme, ranking the riders (in individual meetings) was always part of the 'fun' for me, and helped pass the indeterminable delays between heats. It was a bit of shock going to Costa Mesa where the next race starts pretty much as soon as the riders have got off the track from the previous one. 

Heat formats in individual meetings also represent a complex permutational challenge and thinking about how to optimise them (whilst waiting around for next heat to start) subsequently proved invaluable in my professional career. So each to their own...!

[chunky]

45 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

I then normally post how wrong the TV captions are !!!!

That drives me crazy!!! Particularly at the start of a race, when they list each rider's current points - which are usually wrong...

[norbold]

4 minutes ago, chunky said:

That drives me crazy!!! Particularly at the start of a race, when they list each rider's current points - which are usually wrong...

One of the things that drives me a bit crazy (not totally!) is when Kelvin and whoever he is with at the Grand Prix can't work out who has qualified for the semis and either still give riders a chance of qualifying when they have none or questioning whether someone can still qualify when they can't be overtaken.

[racers and royals]

8 hours ago, norbold said:

One of the things that drives me a bit crazy (not totally!) is when Kelvin and whoever he is with at the Grand Prix can't work out who has qualified for the semis and either still give riders a chance of qualifying when they have none or questioning whether someone can still qualify when they can't be overtaken.

Splashing out on the marvellous Kandysoft software spreadsheet( as endorsed by Sam Ermolenko !!) would solve all their problems in one  Enter the result of the race and hey presto everything is done for them.

Edited June 8, 2022 by racers and royals

[bigcatdiary]

3 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

I just sit back and enjoy the racing. 

And then you watched the Prague and Teterow Rounds.

[OveFundinFan]

9 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said:

And then you watched the Prague and Teterow Rounds.

Excellent racing, if I said anything different I must have been typing in my sleep. 

[a4poster]

Thanks for the replies.

Out of curiosity in the unlikely event that a reserve scores enough points too get into the semi-finals are they allowed too take there place? If not would the semi-final take place with only three riders?

Thanks.