SON 2022 27th-30th July Vojens Denmark live on TV

[jimmy jimmy]

4 minutes ago, chunky said:

But apparently, there are those who don't think he's "on the pace"...

I think they are being very harsh on him, he is one of the best U21 out there, its a disgrace he wasnt given a wild card for the U21 GP series

[jimmy jimmy]

Drew, like Jordan Palin, can flatter to deceive a bit, isnt at SoN standard at the moment, Flint has potential and needs to be trusted by the management. When he is back, Dan Gilkes also will be an impressive U21/U23 rider.

[nw42]

1 minute ago, jimmy jimmy said:

I think they are being very harsh on him, he is one of the best U21 out there, its a disgrace he wasnt given a wild card for the U21 GP series

Not based on tonight's showing, he wasn't really in it tonight, Flint deserved a crack.  I think Kemp is a decent rider and could have a big future in the sport but tonight  he just wasn't posing a threat, time is on his side.

[Hawk127]

15 minutes ago, chunky said:

So you don't think  there are any British riders that are "on the pace"?

No they are not consistent enough to be described as on the pace. They and Neil etc think they are but in reality they are NDL level in terms of the international platform. Look at how other nations have progressed and yet GB have gone backwards. Maybe in five to ten years from now they could be competitive but that might be wishful thinking. Until the idiots in charge in the U.K. recognise what a cock up they have made in terms of managing the sport and fully getting behind the riders, team GB will struggle.

[jimmy jimmy]

2 minutes ago, nw42 said:

Not based on tonight's showing, he wasn't really in it tonight, Flint deserved a crack.  I think Kemp is a decent rider and could have a big future in the sport but tonight  he just wasn't posing a threat, time is on his side.

I was talking about Tom Brennan, he scored 20, thats pretty good

[nw42]

1 minute ago, jimmy jimmy said:

I was talking about Tom Brennan, he scored 20, thats pretty good

My mistake, apologies.  Brennan has come on leaps and bounds, couldn't agree more he was quality tonight, a real pleasure to watch, interviews well, hope his rise continues to the top.

[Fromafar]

46 minutes ago, jimmy jimmy said:

Brennan 20 points, only Gusts did better, impressive! Vatch too loyal to Drew to be honest, Flint having a better season

Think Gusts will be a top man if he has the bit of luck you need in speedway.He is stylish and fast and smooth on the bike.Latvia we’re a bit unlucky near the end .

[Wee Eck]

50 minutes ago, Hawk127 said:

No just recognise where they stand and stop having the powers that be build up mediocre riders and start from scratch. GB riders can rise to the top but at this moment they not on the pace and those in charge are doing these lads no favours. The riders are OK but they have a long way to go to be good.

I assume you’re on the wind up? The Poles are head and shoulders ahead of every other nation. Czechia included a rider who’d scored 15 for his country in the full version of the SON semi last night so (a) could mix it with the big boys and (b) had very recent experience riding the track. GB came next ahead of some major speedway countries, Sweden, Australia, Denmark and Latvia. It’s not many years since the position would be “and the plucky Brits bring up the year”. And for those that think Flint should have had a ride, think on this - the management decisions brought GB bronze which was probably the best possible out-turn. Would we have done better if Leon had had a ride?
Meanwhile, the Aussies decision to go straight to Europe, bypassing UK isn’t really working out, is it? Rew and Bowes were so out of their depth. Battling hard, perhaps, but lacking basic skills. Come to Britain boys and learn how to ride a bike on all sorts of different tracks before trying to make a living on the fast ovals in Poland. 

Final point for now - is it correct that the team coming last gets replaced next year? That would be a big blow for Sweden

[chunky]

33 minutes ago, Hawk127 said:

No they are not consistent enough to be described as on the pace.

So, Brennan isn't "on the pace"? Yeah, he was crap tonight! As I said, if it hadn't been for the crash, we would have had a great chance of winning the title. As it was, third place isn't exactly a disaster - although you may think it is...

[Fromafar]

6 minutes ago, Wee Eck said:

I assume you’re on the wind up? The Poles are head and shoulders ahead of every other nation. Czechia included a rider who’d scored 15 for his country in the full version of the SON semi last night so (a) could mix it with the big boys and (b) had very recent experience riding the track. GB came next ahead of some major speedway countries, Sweden, Australia, Denmark and Latvia. It’s not many years since the position would be “and the plucky Brits bring up the year”. And for those that think Flint should have had a ride, think on this - the management decisions brought GB bronze which was probably the best possible out-turn. Would we have done better if Leon had had a ride?
Meanwhile, the Aussies decision to go straight to Europe, bypassing UK isn’t really working out, is it? Rew and Bowes were so out of their depth. Battling hard, perhaps, but lacking basic skills. Come to Britain boys and learn how to ride a bike on all sorts of different tracks before trying to make a living on the fast ovals in Poland. 

Final point for now - is it correct that the team coming last gets replaced next year? That would be a big blow for Sweden

The scoring system and Semi and Final heats make it a lottery as tonight showed.Flint wouldn’t have done any worse than Kemp IMO.Points wise Poland showed how good they were but the Pole was struggling to past the Czech till his bike failed.

The SON was set up this way to try and stop the Poles winning everything in Team Events.

 

[LesR]

I was disappointed that the senior GB riders didn't bother to attend, unlike the Polish senior squad, to give the GB under 21 boys some advice about the track and set up. I'm sure the young Polish riders appreciated their senior riders giving them advice and encouragement.

[enotian]

22 minutes ago, Hawk127 said:

No they are not consistent enough to be described as on the pace. They and Neil etc think they are but in reality they are NDL level in terms of the international platform. Look at how other nations have progressed and yet GB have gone backwards. Maybe in five to ten years from now they could be competitive but that might be wishful thinking. Until the idiots in charge in the U.K. recognise what a cock up they have made in terms of managing the sport and fully getting behind the riders, team GB will struggle.

I'm struggling to comprehend based only on the scorechart.  There were 18 riders in action tonight. Brennan was the 3rd top individual scorer and Kemp was 11th. Presumably the field contained all the best U21 riders in the World (Maybe Salonen or Blodorn. Perhaps other Poles or what happened to the Danish wunderkinder Birkemose?). Maybe Kemp would have beaten the Aussies but for his exclusion which would have taken him to 7th top scorer. Effectively only Poland had a better combination of riders. 

Two riders in the top 11 in the World and a bronze medal doesn't sound too shabby to me.

Do I think Kemp will go on to be a GP standard rider? No. But based on those stats does he deserve a shoeing? No.

I think the problem UK youngsters have is that as soon as they're in the Championship they're up against Premiership heat leaders. So it's difficult to progress beyond 2nd string and to build the confidence winning heats regularly brings and the experience the responsibility of being a heat leader provides. Yes they need to be able to beat these old hands but maybe with the confidence and experience gained at a lower level they might make that next step. All the current set (including Brennan) seem to be stalling at Championship level but on tonights display there's only Poland who you'd consider as being significantly better off than the Brits.  

[Fromafar]

12 minutes ago, enotian said:

I'm struggling to comprehend based only on the scorechart.  There were 18 riders in action tonight. Brennan was the 3rd top individual scorer and Kemp was 11th. Presumably the field contained all the best U21 riders in the World (Maybe Salonen or Blodorn. Perhaps other Poles or what happened to the Danish wunderkinder Birkemose?). Maybe Kemp would have beaten the Aussies but for his exclusion which would have taken him to 7th top scorer. Effectively only Poland had a better combination of riders. 

Two riders in the top 11 in the World and a bronze medal doesn't sound too shabby to me.

Do I think Kemp will go on to be a GP standard rider? No. But based on those stats does he deserve a shoeing? No.

I think the problem UK youngsters have is that as soon as they're in the Championship they're up against Premiership heat leaders. So it's difficult to progress beyond 2nd string and to build the confidence winning heats regularly brings and the experience the responsibility of being a heat leader provides. Yes they need to be able to beat these old hands but maybe with the confidence and experience gained at a lower level they might make that next step. All the current set (including Brennan) seem to be stalling at Championship level but on tonights display there's only Poland who you'd consider as being significantly better off than the Brits.  

Dont see how you consider Brennan to be stalling,he has improved greatly this season IMO.

Based on where GB once stood in World terms we have gone significantly backward in recent years.Excluding Sweden and Denmark these other Nations have never really been known as speedway Countries,Yet most have a couple of youngsters on par or better than us.

Australia now have riders in Poland better  or equal to any thing we have here.

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Fromafar

[tomhaines]

A good entertaining meeting with some exciting talents on show - future looks bright for Czechia and Latvia on that showing if the likes of Gusts and Kvech can kick on. Adding to the likes of Salonen for Finland. 

Concerning future for Sweden - where is their next GP rider coming from? None of their 3 looked like potential world beaters or special talents. 

Positive outcome for GB but like the senior team, felt the body language on the podium said a lot about the mood in the camp - Flint particularly looking very hard done by to have gone all the way for no rides! Questionable decision on gates and lack of Flint rides - why pay TMs if you are just going to go as per programme (and GB have 3!).

Looking forward to tomorrow but for the pinnacle of the sport and ‘new era’ the coverage is at times embarrassing  - can somebody please give Kelvin and Chris a calculator or programme… it isn’t difficult to follow and professional commentators should be able to tell us the implications of a race! Secondly they should have some knowledge of the riders to add a bit of colour to their commentary - “I don’t know a lot about him” isn’t a great look with all the detail easily available online. And finally, Abi… please ask one question at a time with simpler words when speaking to riders who don’t speak a word of English… the poor Poles had a glazed look as she asked multiple questions in one! 

[Bash]

Was this on discovery + tonight as just logged on and nothing showing

[enotian]

1 minute ago, Fromafar said:

Dont see how you consider Brennan to be stalling,he has improved greatly this season IMO.

Based on where GB once stood in World terms we have gone significantly backward in recent years.Excluding Sweden and Denmark these other Nations have never really been known as speedway Countries,Yet most have a couple of youngsters on par or better than us.

He's 21 and not a #1 in the 2nd division and not getting a sniff at the Polish Extraliga and didn't qualify for SGP2. The latest comparisons are Lambert and Bewley who did. I think he is going to go on to be world class but would say he's behind the curve at this point. Maybe his leg break and 2020 played a part in that. Hopefully tonights points haul will get him opportunities to progress.

We're better than everyone at this level apart from Poland and the Czech's!!!  If I was Swedish I'd be worried.  The Danes must be a bit miffed. Basso the only Danish youngster with experience in the UK looked way better than those who've gone down the Polish route. Likewise with the Aussies. So it's only Gusts and Kvech outside the lead nations at a higher level.  No different to say Vaculik and Zagar being SGP riders. Good for the sport to have world stars from a range of countries.  Although I do have to say this crop of U21's don't look like becoming world beaters. There's no standout performer and even the Poles don't look at good as the Kubera, Drabik, Smektala batch of recent years. 

 

 

[racers and royals]

7 hours ago, Bash said:

Was this on discovery + tonight as just logged on and nothing showing

It’s there if you look - presumably you have entertainment AND SPORT ?

Edited July 30, 2022 by racers and royals

[jrs]

An enjoyable  meeting last night, but I must agree that the team management on both nights was generally poor.

Last night Flint should at least have had one ride probably two,  he would have been no worse than Kemp. There seemed to be  very little team spirit or real camaraderie amongst them, but all this "can't really be arsed" expressions on their faces doesnt really inspire supporters and sponsors.  Brennan has far more  discipline and good attitude, but it doesn't hurt to smile and stand with respect if you don't win as the other nations  proved last  night . GB body language is poor, and in this day and age you would expect them to be taught such things. You've only got to look at Gusts  example , a credit to Latvia,  can speak good English with a smile, he always seems to enjoy himself whenever you see him racing. His example of warm-up exercises , which I've noticed are not iuncommon in Polish racing is one that many could follow. These days fitness and strength are critical in speedway. 

But riders with "mardy kid" faces does them no favour at all. The first thing that serious sponsors look at is personal presentation and demeanour not to mention good self discipline. Woffinden is a prime example  for poor attitude., whilst Lambert and Bewley both seem way ahead in being media savvy and present themselves well.

When it comes to the seniors, even if they were present last night, they should have been visible  promoting the GB squads , I don't see Stead and Allen inspiring anybody and nice guys they maybe, but firstly why two of them, or are they both indecisive. Bewley has clearly come on a lot this season and obviously riding in the same team as  Woffinden week in week out they should have had more confidence in him. Lambert is also having a superb season in Poland and we should be proud of the two young men they , are our future. Just add some discipline and professionalism . Poland have set tha bar very high for the rest of world speedway to follow, we need to take note. As an example at the presentation the Polish team quickly printed up  signs for Ceirniak and Miskowiak to hold with good wishes to their injured teamate. The simple things that look good are easy to do.

Good luck too the lads tonight,  we've got three top class riders who really have a good chance of doing well. 

 

 

 

[DutchGrasstrack]

SON2 pictures: https://fim-pictures.com/galleries/1172/2022-speedway-of-nations-2-vojens 

[salty]

Enjoyed last night's meeting. This despite a poor surface to race on. Good to see the Czechs and Latvia doing so well. 

Kelvin and Chris clearly struggled last night. Much as I wish them well, the difficulty to understand the scoring and the possible ramifications was amateur hour. Instead of banging on how Denmark were in with a chance prior to the last race they should have identified the Latvians situation who - I believe - could only be denied a place in Heat 22 by one possible result. The whole broadcasting team don't seem to grasp that the most important thing is to not finish last rather than to win a heat. For example, in the Final the camera should have been following the race for 3rd not 1st.

Not a good look for the sport to have such a poor crowd, lets hope tonight's turn out is better.