IainB Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 14 minutes ago, baiden said: But that's what I mean. Zmarzlik is good everywhere, even when riding for Poland. It's the rest of the Polish team letting their nation down outside of their home country. I wasn't disagreeing with you, just pointing out he can almost win meetings on his own (or at least put them in a position to do so - take 2019 Speedway of Nations for example). A lot of people seem to have an over inflated opinion of the Poles because in recent times the majority of GP's have been held in their home country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 Year Venue Winners Runner-up 3rd place 2001 Wrocław Australia (68 pts) Poland (65 pts) Sweden (51 pts) 2002 Peterborough Australia (64 pts) Denmark (58 pts) Sweden (54 pts) 2003 Vojens Sweden (62 pts) Australia (57 pts) Denmark (53 pts) 2004 Poole Sweden (49 pts) Great Britain (48 pts) Denmark (32 pts) 2005 Wrocław Poland (62 pts) Sweden (34 pts) Denmark (31 pts) 2006 Reading Denmark (45 pts) Sweden (37 pts) Great Britain (36 pts) 2007 Leszno Poland (55 pts) Denmark (52 pts) Australia (29 pts) 2008 Vojens Denmark (49 pts) Poland (46 pts) Sweden (39 pts) 2009 Leszno Poland (44 pts) Australia (43 pts) Sweden (36 pts) 2010 Vojens Poland (44 pts) Denmark (39 pts) Sweden (35 pts) 2011 Gorzów Wielkopolski Poland (51 pts) Australia (45 pts) Sweden (30 pts) 2012 Målilla Denmark (39 pts) Australia (36 pts) Russia (30 pts) 2013 Prague Poland (41 pts) Denmark (40 pts) Australia (34 pts) 2014 Bydgoszcz Denmark (38 pts) Poland (37 pts) Australia (36 pts) 2015 Vojens Sweden (34 pts) Denmark (32 pts) Poland (27 pts) 2016 Manchester Poland (39 pts) Great Britain (32 pts) Sweden (30 pts) 2017 Leszno Poland (50 pts) Sweden (42 pts) Russia (18 pts) Year Venue Winners Runner-up 3rd place 2018 Wrocław Russia (45 Pts) Great Britain (46 Pts) Poland (36 Pts) 2019 Tolyatti Russia (45 Pts) Poland (47 Pts) Australia (41 Pts) 2020 Lublin Russia (23 pts) Poland (23 pts) Denmark (19 pts) 2021 Belle Vue Great Britain (64 pts) Poland (74 pts) Denmark (68 pts) 3 outside of Poland in 21 years 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 Some Club over needs to sign Levishyn on a quick refugee Visa.Looks exciting and would do Job.!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baiden Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, iainb said: Year Venue Winners Runner-up 3rd place 2001 Wrocław Australia (68 pts) Poland (65 pts) Sweden (51 pts) 2002 Peterborough Australia (64 pts) Denmark (58 pts) Sweden (54 pts) 2003 Vojens Sweden (62 pts) Australia (57 pts) Denmark (53 pts) 2004 Poole Sweden (49 pts) Great Britain (48 pts) Denmark (32 pts) 2005 Wrocław Poland (62 pts) Sweden (34 pts) Denmark (31 pts) 2006 Reading Denmark (45 pts) Sweden (37 pts) Great Britain (36 pts) 2007 Leszno Poland (55 pts) Denmark (52 pts) Australia (29 pts) 2008 Vojens Denmark (49 pts) Poland (46 pts) Sweden (39 pts) 2009 Leszno Poland (44 pts) Australia (43 pts) Sweden (36 pts) 2010 Vojens Poland (44 pts) Denmark (39 pts) Sweden (35 pts) 2011 Gorzów Wielkopolski Poland (51 pts) Australia (45 pts) Sweden (30 pts) 2012 Målilla Denmark (39 pts) Australia (36 pts) Russia (30 pts) 2013 Prague Poland (41 pts) Denmark (40 pts) Australia (34 pts) 2014 Bydgoszcz Denmark (38 pts) Poland (37 pts) Australia (36 pts) 2015 Vojens Sweden (34 pts) Denmark (32 pts) Poland (27 pts) 2016 Manchester Poland (39 pts) Great Britain (32 pts) Sweden (30 pts) 2017 Leszno Poland (50 pts) Sweden (42 pts) Russia (18 pts) Year Venue Winners Runner-up 3rd place 2018 Wrocław Russia (45 Pts) Great Britain (46 Pts) Poland (36 Pts) 2019 Tolyatti Russia (45 Pts) Poland (47 Pts) Australia (41 Pts) 2020 Lublin Russia (23 pts) Poland (23 pts) Denmark (19 pts) 2021 Belle Vue Great Britain (64 pts) Poland (74 pts) Denmark (68 pts) 3 outside of Poland in 21 years In the Zmarzlik era though, they won in Prague in 2013 and Manchester in 2016 (only losing out in Vojens in 2015) - plus they top scored in both the Tolyatti and Belle Vue Speedway of Nations (despite losing the Grand Final). That's not exactly poor performances. Plus, if we look at the junior categories, Poland have been pretty dominant outside of Poland. Again, not really disagreeing with you, just playing devil's advocate. (edit, apologies, Zmarzlik didn't ride in 2013) Edited July 28, 2022 by baiden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, iainb said: I've said it before and I'll say it again... the Poles ain't all that outside of Poland, history and the record books tells us this 16 minutes ago, iainb said: A lot of people seem to have an over inflated opinion of the Poles because in recent times the majority of GP's have been held in their home country. Hence why, for me, the 2020 World Championship was a farce. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, baiden said: In the Zmarzlik era though, they won in Prague in 2013 and Manchester in 2016 (only losing out in Vojens in 2015) - plus they top scored in both the Tolyatti and Belle Vue Speedway of Nations (despite losing the Grand Final). That's not exactly poor performances. Plus, if we look at the junior categories, Poland have been pretty dominant outside of Poland. Zmarzlik didn't ride in the 2013 final, LOST in Vojens, LOST in Togliatti, LOST at BV I'll grant you about the juniors, but the juniors don't always go on to be world beaters Edited July 28, 2022 by iainb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baiden Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, iainb said: Zmarzlik didn't ride in the 2013 final, LOST in Vojens, LOST in Togliatti, LOST at BV I'll grant you about the juniors, but the juniors don't always go on to be world beaters Yeah, sorry, I edited my post to mention about 2013. Well, I'll remind you of this thread after Saturday! I really hope I'm wrong though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, baiden said: Yeah, sorry, I edited my post to mention about 2013. Well, I'll remind you of this thread after Saturday! I really hope I'm wrong though. Yes somebody will win... and if it's the Poles I'll take my hat off to them as imo it'll be a bigger achievement than winning it on home soil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 28 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Some Club over needs to sign Levishyn on a quick refugee Visa.Looks exciting and would do Job.!! Levishyn (and Salonen) are already in the Polish system so I doubt if you could persuade them to take what would be regarded as a step down in their career progress and come to the UK (although Jonas Knudsen who is at a similar level and age has). And how long would it take to get a visa for someone who already has full time employment (and probably a history of residence) in Poland? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baiden Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, iainb said: Yes somebody will win... and if it's the Poles I'll take my hat off to them as imo it'll be a bigger achievement than winning it on home soil. Was looking at how the Poles have scored points in meetings outside of Poland. Just looking at the Speedway of Nations, I think it proves both of our points. Zmarzlik has been pretty dominant, but the rest of the Poles have definitely struggled. Bartosz Zmarzlik - 129 Rest of Poland - 84 Maciej Janowski 37, Patryk Dudek 23, Dominik Kubera 13, Maksym Drabik 6, Jakub Miskowiak 3, Bartosz Smektala 2 Edited July 28, 2022 by baiden 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, baiden said: Was looking at how the Poles have scored points in meetings outside of Poland. Just looking at the Speedway of Nations, I think it proves both of our points. Zmarzlik has been pretty dominant, but the rest of the Poles have definitely struggled. Bartosz Zmarzlik - 129 Rest of Poland - 84 Maciej Janowski 37, Patryk Dudek 23, Dominik Kubera 13, Maksym Drabik 6, Jakub Miskowiak 3, Bartosz Smektala 2 Back in the day when people were questioning why the Brits were no good on the world stage an argument was that they had it too easy at home, when BL ruled the roost. I think you could probably use the same argument for the Poles, they have it very easy at home with the big pay packets and adulation. I don't think it's any coincidence that the Brits have come on so much now that none of them ride in Britain. It's akin to living at home with your mum doing all you cooking and cleaning and when you get your own place you have to man-up a bit. That's why I think Magic should ditch riding in Poland if he has aspirations of becoming World Champion, he has it far too easy rolling up to Wroclaw every week in his luxury car, going through the motions and leaving with a boot full of Zlotys 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 hours ago, iainb said: I've said it before and I'll say it again... the Poles ain't all that outside of Poland, history and the record books tells us this Not sure why they went with janowski, kubera better choice imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: Not sure why they went with janowski, kubera better choice imo Agree ,Janowski is struggling a bit this season.Kubera is having a great season.While the Poles take their Team Speedway seriously dont think they will be losing too much sleep over the SON.It was designed to stop them winning the World Team Cup every Year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baiden Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Agree ,Janowski is struggling a bit this season.Kubera is having a great season.While the Poles take their Team Speedway seriously dont think they will be losing too much sleep over the SON.It was designed to stop them winning the World Team Cup every Year. Is Kubera really having a better season than Janowski? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted July 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 24 minutes ago, baiden said: Is Kubera really having a better season than Janowski? He’s certainly a consistently better gater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, baiden said: Is Kubera really having a better season than Janowski? Just my opinion,I’m a Janowski fan he’s doing alright but not dominating like last few seasons,where as Kubera is regularly beating the Top men and improving IMO Macic has been under more pressure this season with R/R for Laguta and injuries to Chugenov and it’s taking its toll. IMO. Edited July 28, 2022 by Fromafar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted July 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 Every chance that Italy are without Covatti tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 We should easily qualify tonight and we haven’t been this strong in a good few years, Bewley is a far more mature rider than he was this time last year, gating on a slick track could be our weakness but even that shouldn’t see us really troubled tonight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 What tv channel is this being shown on? Apologies if I have missed it. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 hours ago, baiden said: Plus, if we look at the junior categories, Poland have been pretty dominant outside of Poland. Year Venue Pos 1 2 3 4 5 2005 Czechoslovakia 1st Janusz Kołodziej Krystian Klecha Marcin Rempała Krzysztof Kasprzak Karol Ząbik 2006 Poland 1st Krzysztof Buczkowski Adrian Miedziński Paweł Hlib Karol Ząbik Paweł Miesiąc 2007 Germany 1st Karol Zabik Pawel Hlib Krzysztof Buczkowski Mateusz Szczepaniak Adrian Gomólski 2008 Denmark 1st Michał Mitko Artur Mroczka Grzegorz Zengota Maciej Janowski Daniel Pytel 2009 Poland 1st Dawid Lampart Maciej Janowski Grzegorz Zengota Przemysław Pawlicki Artur Mroczka 2010 UK 3rd Maciej Janowski Patryk Dudek Artur Mroczka Przemyslaw Pawlick Szymon Wozniak 2011 Russia 5th Patryk Dudek Przemysław Pawlicki Maciej Janowski Bartosz Zmarzlik Piotr Pawlicki 2012 Poland 1st Patryk Dudek Maciej Janowski Tobiasz Musielak Przemyslaw Pawlick Bartosz Zmarzlik 2013 Czechia 2nd Patryk Dudek Paweł Przedpełski Piotr Pawlicki Bartosz Zmarzlik 2014 Denmark 1st Bartosz Zmarzlik Piotr Pawlicki Kacper Gomolski Pawel Przedpelski 2015 Australia 1st Maksym Drabik Piotr Pawlicki Bartosz Zmarzlik Pawel Przedpelski 2016 Sweden 1st Krystian Pieszczek Bartosz Zmarzlik Pawel Przedpelski Bartosz Smektala Daniel Kaczmarek 2017 Poland 1st Bartosz Smektala Kacper Woryna Maksym Drabik Dominik Kubera Rafal Karczmarz 2018 Germany 1st Rafal Karczmarz Daniel Kaczmarek Maksym Drabik Bartosz Smektala Wiktor Lampart 2019 UK 1st Maksym Drabik Dominik Kubera Wiktor Lampart Bartosz Smektala Michal Gruchalski 2020 Germany 1st Wiktor Lampart Norbert Krakowiak Viktor Trofimov Jakub Miskowiak Dominik Kubera 2021 Poland 1st Jakub Miskowiak Wiktor Lampart Mateusz Cierniak Like you say dominant... they must be wondering where it's all going wrong at senior level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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