Newcastle vs Redcar SGB Championship 29th May 2022- 4pm

[Jaizer]

Just now, enotian said:

okay don't answer that question but tell me which riders are available to sign.

Ask Rob grant he's the man promised signings . Again it's a different argument, Newcastle were weak at start of season through choice. They chose to sign Congreve and complin, could've off top of my head signed sedgy and kelleher. 

I could list riders who used to ride in UK but don't now only to be shot down by the he rides in Poland police so I'll decline. Sunday is a nightmare day, I know issues we had trying to get signings when was our race day

[Viper]

13 hours ago, Bellers101 said:

It's a decent league. It's Newcastle that are a shambles.

So I’m going to bite to this post even though I would normally avoid doing so given it is obviously aimed at goading Newcastle fans.

So as a huge Newcastle fan and someone who had in the past worked for the club for a number of years, I have to say that Redcar at this point are a million miles away from our club, whether this is in terms of team, track, product or simply the way the clubs philology is at this present time.

Even as a lifelong Newcastle fan I must say that it was men against boys today. I watch this Newcastle side and not one of them really covered themselves in glory tonight. I have to say a HUGE thank you to Kyle Howarth who has been a breath of fresh air in our side these last few weeks but the team is obviously not up to the standard we need.

In terms of the owners comments about the 100% change in personnel before our next meeting then I will hold judgement. I hope the owner has the ambition to improve the side before the next meeting which is being beamed live on the BSN. I hope Robs views are based on improving a side which has so obviously been way under the level that is needed to compete, but let’s see how things improve and whether we have an ownership that is looking to drive this club forward. 

If we want a speedway club in Newcastle then we need a team that try’s, not a side that waves the white flag after a couple of races. This is the first time I can say I have been ashamed of the performance of a Diamonds side in all my years of watching them. This team is not strong enough but tonight was just not good enough, on a track which has been better than it had been for quite a long time.

What an absolute shambles

Edited May 30, 2022 by Viper

[Viper]

15 hours ago, highside said:

Time for big changes at Newcastle , is there 7 riders available? Or at least 5 .

I’m terms of Newcastle then no there isn’t one rider never mind 5!

Apparently out lack of a sponsorship visa means we are fishing in a pond that is British riders only. This is obviously a pond that has nobody within it.

it’s so sad to see the club in turmoil whether that is the team scores, the team performances or even the fact that every home meeting is littered with avoidable mistakes that delays the matches for hours.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Viper

[enotian]

1 minute ago, Jaizer said:

Ask Rob grant he's the man promised signings . Again it's a different argument, Newcastle were weak at start of season through choice. They chose to sign Congreve and complin, could've off top of my head signed sedgy and kelleher. 

I could list riders who used to ride in UK but don't now only to be shot down by the he rides in Poland police so I'll decline. Sunday is a nightmare day, I know issues we had trying to get signings when was our race day

Exactly, there isn't any. Sedgman didn't want to come across to ride one league but changed his mind and was hardly desirable. Kelleher was not worthy of a return and even if he'd signed instead of Congreve it would have still been way under the limit and terrible and he wouldn't have become an asset.  Which for some reason appears to be important?

Admittedly, the team signed is terrible and to a budget but the fact remains that the points limit set for 11 teams was higher than the total combined averages of the riders available by some considerable margin.  Hence at least three teams starting under the limit by  at least a point. And that's including riders who weren't ever going to do the season. You can't dispute the simple mathematics that the sum of the points limit multiplied by the number of teams was greater than the total average of riders available. And so the wealthier/better run clubs sign the riders they want and the poorer clubs have to make do with what's left.  That's fine if there are enough riders available to make a competitive side but that wasn't the case this pre-season. Hence teams having to dig up riders to be able to come to the tapes with 7 riders they can arguably call their own, even if in some instances they were never doing the full season.

It now appears that Rob Grant is to attain a sponsors licence which should allow him to access new foreign riders which he wasn't able to do before. I don't think he could have obtained this any earlier? Even so any riders signed now were unlikely to sign pre-season as they'd have signed to Polish clubs.  Yes Sunday is a problem but it's the only day available to Newcastle.

I'm not here to defend the promotion as I've voted with my feet after hardly missing a home match since 1986. The last couple of pre-pandemic seasons were the finish for me. Simply not worth the money. Terrible racing and matches that take forever against scratch teams.

The fact remains that if the CL wanted to retain the 42 points limit standard then a simple calculation based on the list of available riders averages should have determined how many teams should have been allowed in the league. But they were never going to turn down Oxford returning or expel Birmingham or Newcastle.  So what was the only other option, if you wanted all teams to be competitive? That's right, reduce the points limit or at least restrict the number of 8pt riders each team could sign. Truth is why would the wealthier teams want to do that? So you end up with teams of vastly different strengths and prey that the rubbish teams can make if through the season and still be about the following season. At some point those prayers won't be answered and the number of tracks will diminish even further than the bare minimum we have now.  

[Viper]

4 hours ago, robbieblackadder fan club said:

Seriously embarrassing now 28 points at home and 11 from a guest, 1 point from reserve as opposed to 19 for Redcar,why no guest for Starke ?? We are now a laughing stock and have been for the last 2 years, such a shame from a once top club 

I am led to believe that Paul only informed the promotion that he was not fit last night and meant it was virtually impossible to get a guest.

[Jaizer]

2 minutes ago, enotian said:

Exactly, there isn't any. Sedgman didn't want to come across to ride one league but changed his mind and was hardly desirable. Kelleher was not worthy of a return and even if he'd signed instead of Congreve it would have still been way under the limit and terrible and he wouldn't have become an asset.  Which for some reason appears to be important?

Admittedly, the team signed is terrible and to a budget but the fact remains that the points limit set for 11 teams was higher than the total combined averages of the riders available by some considerable margin.  Hence at least three teams starting under the limit by  at least a point. And that's including riders who weren't ever going to do the season. You can't dispute the simple mathematics that the sum of the points limit multiplied by the number of teams was greater than the total average of riders available. And so the wealthier/better run clubs sign the riders they want and the poorer clubs have to make do with what's left.  That's fine if there are enough riders available to make a competitive side but that wasn't the case this pre-season. Hence teams having to dig up riders to be able to come to the tapes with 7 riders they can arguably call their own, even if in some instances they were never doing the full season.

It now appears that Rob Grant is to attain a sponsors licence which should allow him to access new foreign riders which he wasn't able to do before. I don't think he could have obtained this any earlier? Even so any riders signed now were unlikely to sign pre-season as they'd have signed to Polish clubs.  Yes Sunday is a problem but it's the only day available to Newcastle.

I'm not here to defend the promotion as I've voted with my feet after hardly missing a home match since 1986. The last couple of pre-pandemic seasons were the finish for me. Simply not worth the money. Terrible racing and matches that take forever against scratch teams.

The fact remains that if the CL wanted to retain the 42 points limit standard then a simple calculation based on the list of available riders averages should have determined how many teams should have been allowed in the league. But they were never going to turn down Oxford returning or expel Birmingham or Newcastle.  So what was the only other option, if you wanted all teams to be competitive? That's right, reduce the points limit or at least restrict the number of 8pt riders each team could sign. Truth is why would the wealthier teams want to do that? So you end up with teams of vastly different strengths and prey that the rubbish teams can make if through the season and still be about the following season. At some point those prayers won't be answered and the number of tracks will diminish even further than the bare minimum we have now.  

You don't improve a product by reducing the quality to the lowest denominator. That's a recipe for disaster quicker than British speedway is going already. 

I think sedgys form so far in comparison to the 2 names aforementioned would be very desirable. As I understand the rules can apply for visas after 12 months, Grant's been in charge for far longer although I know some dispute with this being a new company I've read elsewhere might be why taken so long.

Even that situation, look at Birmingham. They've used belle Vue to sponsor Pearson and Glasgow to sponsor sedgy. There are way around it if you wish to find them.

I mean what do we do next season if a club decided to build 3/4 points below that points limit? Just keep reducing it? Here an idea, put bonus points back in GSA's. Job done

[Argos]

Could anyone please tell me what the latest is wi BWD is he going to ride again or is he out for the season? The news from the club about him is complete silence, Does he need a work permit to ride in the U.K.?    

[Viper]

3 hours ago, Jaizer said:

Promising changes might be easier said than done unfortunately 

Totally agree but what wasn’t said is where in team the changes were going to occur! 

[Fortythirtyeight]

6 minutes ago, Viper said:

Totally agree but what wasn’t said is where in team the changes were going to occur! 

According to the promoters rant in the pits for all to hear…….NOW!

[Diamond geezer]

8 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

According to the promoters rant in the pits for all to hear…….NOW!

Any extra intel? What was the promoters rant? 

[mac101]

merry go round of riders coming up next week 

[enotian]

1 minute ago, Jaizer said:

You don't improve a product by reducing the quality to the lowest denominator. That's a recipe for disaster quicker than British speedway is going already. 

I think sedgys form so far in comparison to the 2 names aforementioned would be very desirable. As I understand the rules can apply for visas after 12 months, Grant's been in charge for far longer although I know some dispute with this being a new company I've read elsewhere might be why taken so long.

Even that situation, look at Birmingham. They've used belle Vue to sponsor Pearson and Glasgow to sponsor sedgy. There are way around it if you wish to find them.

I mean what do we do next season if a club decided to build 3/4 points below that points limit? Just keep reducing it? Here an idea, put bonus points back in GSA's. Job done

you choose not to address the simple mathematical reality.  that's fine but the consequence of not addressing the lack of available riders is the current situation and the potential loss of more tracks. 

you do however improve the product by having equally competitive teams.  as I pointed out in my last post if you want equally matched teams at the same level then you simply work out from the available rider pool how many equally matched teams can be in the league.  This pre-season that was about 9 teams not 11.  So you refuse Oxford and expel one of Birmingham or Newcastle to improve the product.  That's the option.

pre-season Sedgmen wasn't an option for anyone and he hardly has a heat leader average and we'll see how long his current for lasts. And some riders averages are bound to increase because there are some understrength teams so averages will increase as the same points are available.

I don't know if Newcastle could have done what Birmingham have done or not.  You would presume so but which new foreign riders would sign for a Sunday track pre-season?

You could include bonus points in the GSA's and retain the 42 point limit but you're reducing the standard of the teams which is what you don't want?

It's a simple choice really.  Do you want equally matched competitive teams? In which case you have to set the rules in some fashion to make that happen. Either restrict the number of teams in the league or reduce the points limit to reflect the pool of available riders. Or you're not bothered about equally matched competitive matches and you set an arbitrary points limit knowing some teams will be under strength.  I really don't care but the consequence of the former means some teams don't come to the tapes and the later means some teams may go out of business due to tracking uncompetitive teams.

[proud panther]

27 minutes ago, Argos said:

Could anyone please tell me what the latest is wi BWD is he going to ride again or is he out for the season? The news from the club about him is complete silence, Does he need a work permit to ride in the U.K.?    

Be surprised if he rides again this season.

[Diamond geezer]

What I find puzzling with Rob Grants interview tonight (and for the record it was nice having a voice finally), was the comments about not being able to sign foreign riders - this linked to inability to apply for a sponsors licence (visa) following the liquidation of the original company he took over. 

 

I would love to find the quotes from him last season, think they could have been in the speedway star. But I am sure I have read that he tried to sign last season 

- Kenneth bjerre

- Martin Smolinksi 

- Troy batchelor 

then again this season, I am sure I have seen a quote saying he tried to convince bjarne pedersen of riding. 
 

one question - was that all bollocks then? 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Diamond geezer

[Fromafar]

35 minutes ago, Diamond geezer said:

What I find puzzling with Rob Grants interview tonight (and for the record it was nice having a voice finally), was the comments about not being able to sign foreign riders - this linked to inability to apply for a sponsors licence (visa) following the liquidation of the original company he took over. 

 

I would love to find the quotes from him last season, think they could have been in the speedway star. But I am sure I have read that he tried to sign last season 

- Kenneth bjerre

- Martin Smolinksi 

- Troy batchelor 

then again this season, I am sure I have seen a quote saying he tried to convince bjarne pedersen of riding. 
 

one question - was that all bollocks then? 

Probably.I fail to see how he could build a Team to ride in Championship without  signing a foreign rider.Plus last year did he not claim to have signed Vissing but had to let him go for some reason. clueless.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Fromafar

[Bellers101]

53 minutes ago, Argos said:

Could anyone please tell me what the latest is wi BWD is he going to ride again or is he out for the season? The news from the club about him is complete silence, Does he need a work permit to ride in the U.K.?    

I've heard he's been sacked.

[Diamond geezer]

8 minutes ago, Bellers101 said:

I've heard he's been sacked.

Not sure they would sack someone they can get a guest for whilst the rider has a sick note. 
 

we are a weaker team with him in though, without Kyle howarth tonight Redcar would have hit 70 - I dread his comeback 

[Justgotmecpc]

1 hour ago, Diamond geezer said:

What I find puzzling with Rob Grants interview tonight (and for the record it was nice having a voice finally), was the comments about not being able to sign foreign riders - this linked to inability to apply for a sponsors licence (visa) following the liquidation of the original company he took over. 

 

I would love to find the quotes from him last season, think they could have been in the speedway star. But I am sure I have read that he tried to sign last season 

- Kenneth bjerre

- Martin Smolinksi 

- Troy batchelor 

then again this season, I am sure I have seen a quote saying he tried to convince bjarne pedersen of riding. 
 

one question - was that all bollocks then? 

All 3 of them would be far to expensive to sign 

[Justgotmecpc]

35 minutes ago, Diamond geezer said:

Not sure they would sack someone they can get a guest for whilst the rider has a sick note. 
 

we are a weaker team with him in though, without Kyle howarth tonight Redcar would have hit 70 - I dread his comeback 

Can't sack somebody on the sick 

[Diamond geezer]

18 minutes ago, Justgotmecpc said:

Can't sack somebody on the sick 

You can….. but Newcastle would be foolish too