Guest riders

[Teromaafan]

1 hour ago, brianbuck said:

Once again the speedway season is being blighted by the rampant and seemingly out of control use of guest riders, many of whom seem to be far superior to the riders that they are replacing.

Perhaps it would be a useful idea to introduce a rule to the effect that:

1. A guest rider cannot be used as a tactical substitute.

2. A guest rider cannot be nominated for a heat 15 ride.

Any thoughts on something like this?

 

How about third rule.

3. A guest rider cannot be called Chris Harris. (That should do it).

[Fromafar]

8 minutes ago, Bluenose said:

The one thing that eeked me was last night !, opposing sides Guest got stuck in traffic at 5pm,

so in my eyes that team should of used R/R, with reserves taking his rides till he turns up ,

not using another Guest who's fixture was postponed earlier in the day, It is making a mockery

of the sport.

We have seen teams riders turn up late before haven't we.?

When Bomber turns up to guest there should be a rule that he can only Guest for the HOME Team.that should keep everybody happy.

[phillipsr]

All teams are doing it though and making themselves much stronger 

Plymouth - Harris/Lawson for Kennett 

Birmingham - Howarth for Auty 

Newcastle - literally anyone for BWD 

not loads of ways around it in all honesty short of running R/R 

[Mr Blobby]

43 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Just ban them.Or make it count towards their average.

That would be bomber goosed.

[Jaizer]

3 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

When Bomber turns up to guest there should be a rule that he can only Guest for the HOME Team.that should keep everybody happy.

To think I was joking Yesterday about Harris taking Morris's place at Oxford!! It's obviously just being accentuated this season with 2/3 riders who it's pretty clear not returning and one rider showing up at the majority of the tracks in their place. I don't see an alternative, don't think be able to limit number of bookings and r/r for no.1 never going to cut it. 

Squad systems maybe but we've hardly enough riders to go around as it is so pretty much a non starter as things stand

[Bluenose]

Does this not mean the away side have to name their team 4 days before said meeting, naming guests included ?.,or have i got it wrong ?

 

REG,s    2022

.010.4 TEAM NOTIFICATIONS Home teams must notify their opponents of the team line-up at least 5 days before the meeting to which the away team must respond within 24 hours with their team line-up.  Notifications must be in writing, include MA’s and where applicable, the reason for facilities being used.  
At least 3 days before the meeting, the home promotion must log the team line-ups, including PJL, NJL and MSDL teams, at the nominated SCB website.  The information must include each riders MA, details of any rider   in a team’s current declaration who will be missing, the full reason for absence and the facility being used along with the name and MA of any guest rider.  

[ruffdiamond]

44 minutes ago, Bluenose said:

Does this not mean the away side have to name their team 4 days before said meeting, naming guests included ?.,or have i got it wrong ?

 

REG,s    2022

.010.4 TEAM NOTIFICATIONS Home teams must notify their opponents of the team line-up at least 5 days before the meeting to which the away team must respond within 24 hours with their team line-up.  Notifications must be in writing, include MA’s and where applicable, the reason for facilities being used.  
At least 3 days before the meeting, the home promotion must log the team line-ups, including PJL, NJL and MSDL teams, at the nominated SCB website.  The information must include each riders MA, details of any rider   in a team’s current declaration who will be missing, the full reason for absence and the facility being used along with the name and MA of any guest rider.  

Am sure in the past, Newcastle couldn't use a guest, at Edinburgh a think. It may have been someone like Kenneth Hansen for Tero?,,, there was something mentioned about 72 hours notice, may well have just been an excuse, but hey-ho. 

[Chris116]

49 minutes ago, Bluenose said:

Does this not mean the away side have to name their team 4 days before said meeting, naming guests included ?.,or have i got it wrong ?

 

REG,s    2022

.010.4 TEAM NOTIFICATIONS Home teams must notify their opponents of the team line-up at least 5 days before the meeting to which the away team must respond within 24 hours with their team line-up.  Notifications must be in writing, include MA’s and where applicable, the reason for facilities being used.  
At least 3 days before the meeting, the home promotion must log the team line-ups, including PJL, NJL and MSDL teams, at the nominated SCB website.  The information must include each riders MA, details of any rider   in a team’s current declaration who will be missing, the full reason for absence and the facility being used along with the name and MA of any guest rider.  

If the above is true then how can a rider replace the notified guest on the day of an meeting when the new guest's meeting has been postponed?

[Fromafar]

10 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

If the above is true then how can a rider replace the notified guest on the day of an meeting when the new guest's meeting has been postponed?

Rule: In the best interest of the sport comes into play.

[arnieg]

1 hour ago, Jaizer said:

I guess technically you could have 6 guests and r/r in operation plus a number 8? 

Redcar once named a team consisting of 6 guests and r/r for a fixture at Sheffield in 2017.

 

Luckily for the sport's credibility it was rained off.  When restaged Redcar only tracked 5 guests (+ r/r and Jonas B Anderson)

 

[Noelinho]

I can’t say it has ever bothered me really. We all know riders get injured, so guests are fundamental to the sport. I don’t mind if Chris Harris turns up with the visitors at Ashfield every week really.

I do think once a guest is announced, they should only be replaced if injured/sick. And I do think if a rider isn’t coming back, they should be formally replaced with a permanent replacement. Apart from that, I don’t really see too many issues. There are already rules about how often you can guest for a team, or at a track, aren’t there?

[Gambo95]

1 hour ago, phillipsr said:

All teams are doing it though and making themselves much stronger 

Plymouth - Harris/Lawson for Kennett 

Birmingham - Howarth for Auty 

Newcastle - literally anyone for BWD 

not loads of ways around it in all honesty short of running R/R 

Make the riders show the SCB etc they have been for tests/checkups etc if you are doubting the injury?

1 hour ago, Bluenose said:

Does this not mean the away side have to name their team 4 days before said meeting, naming guests included ?.,or have i got it wrong ?

 

REG,s    2022

.010.4 TEAM NOTIFICATIONS Home teams must notify their opponents of the team line-up at least 5 days before the meeting to which the away team must respond within 24 hours with their team line-up.  Notifications must be in writing, include MA’s and where applicable, the reason for facilities being used.  
At least 3 days before the meeting, the home promotion must log the team line-ups, including PJL, NJL and MSDL teams, at the nominated SCB website.  The information must include each riders MA, details of any rider   in a team’s current declaration who will be missing, the full reason for absence and the facility being used along with the name and MA of any guest rider.  

Wonder if Berwick put Leon down for r/r at Newcastle knowing he was going to get hurt the night before?

Possibly Berwick had a guest in for Jye knowing he was going to get hurt 3 days prior to the Plymouth meeting (and Belle Vue has r/r for him in their declared lineup for Monday past).

[Fina]

32 minutes ago, arnieg said:

Redcar once named a team consisting of 6 guests and r/r for a fixture at Sheffield in 2017.

 

Luckily for the sport's credibility it was rained off.  When restaged Redcar only tracked 5 guests (+ r/r and Jonas B Anderson)

 

That answers my question then, assuming rules have not changed.  Thanks

[gmuncie]

A few years ago now there was a rule where averages were split into home and away for guests so when at home you got up to their home average and sane for away.

Stopped the horses for courses nonsense we get now where teams seemingly can strengthen time and again 

[Jaizer]

I think the rule about declaring sides was to do with riding order rather than specifics of guests etc. Teams were changing order at last minute home sides couldn't retaliate you were getting no. 2s in averages riding at no.2 against home sides weakest member of top 5. 

I think where sport not shone in best light this week is that if for example Scott Nichols was stuck in traffic then it would've been reserves until showed up, but because it was a guest can bring Harris in to replace him

[Fromafar]

I think a good start would be no guests for injured or missing reserves.Clubs should have Promote a No8 or junior in the long run surely it would help the development of younger riders.

[Triple.H.]

Last night from what I've read and heard in the local media Nick Morris contacted someone, I don't know who  at approx 5pm to say he was stuck on the M5 due to an accident and unlikely to get there.

Oxford then contacted Bomber who's meeting at Poole had been called off early morning due to the poor weather forecast, a Len Silver special but proved correct. 

I don't have a clue where in the Midlands Bomber lives but when contacted he could get to Perry Barr and was happy to accept the booking. 

TBH any Birmingham fan who was at Oxford on Tuesday must have seen Nick Morris busting a gut on a heavy track that he's not ridden before to score points and earn money. So  as he's ridden Birmingham plenty of times do any of you think it made much difference ?

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Triple.H.

[enotian]

3 hours ago, Fromafar said:

I think a good start would be no guests for injured or missing reserves.Clubs should have Promote a No8 or junior in the long run surely it would help the development of younger riders.

I'm almost certain that back in the old National league days, when I was a lad, there weren't any guests.  R/R for heatleaders only and if both teams were operating R/R the #8's were promoted into the 1 to 7 at reserve with the top reserve promoted to the 1 to 5.  Imagine the sales of pens at the track shop!!

I'm sure a doctors note had to be provided as well.

And all this before air fences and all the advancements in safety equipment.

Of course the riders were probably riding on average twice a week so the probability of getting injured was less.

Trouble is that guest riders are good news for promoters and riders alike so I guess they're here to stay despite the manipulation and lack of credibility they bring.

[mikebv]

Obviously it goes without saying that with the "Guest Rule" you cant take the sport seriously as it is simply ludicrous in a team sport to be able to bring in "adhoc ringers" isnt it? 

Even kids League football now uses photo id to prevent this happening..

However....

I can think of one thing might help its credibility...

And that's a name change...

Just as the "Bosman Rule" changed the landscape of Football, and the phrase "Doing a Bosman" became common place...

What about changing the "Guest Rule" to the "Bomber Rule"?

Eg. Last night you could have advertised MPT as "Doing a "Bomber' for the Belle Vue Aces", rather than "Guesting"...

Could fill those terraces instantly.....

[Bagpuss]

I really dislike guests but just like penalty shoot outs there isn't a workable alternative unfortunately.