lbw Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) Wot happened to all those cardboard cut outs that football used during covid restrictions? Cud've at least filled the back straight seating using them! Bloody embarrassing! Edited May 17, 2022 by Turnip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haza Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 Can we really wonder why fans stay away on tv nights ? Travel costs and admission - then all we hear daily on the media cost of living crisis so if fans have access to Eurosport can any really wonder why fans stay at home and watch 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panthers99 Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 I'd have gone Danny in 15. He's as likely to find a start or pass a rider than Troy is. Bachelor couldn't have been any nicer to Bomber in 13. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 41 minutes ago, Haza said: Can we really wonder why fans stay away on tv nights ? Travel costs and admission - then all we hear daily on the media cost of living crisis so if fans have access to Eurosport can any really wonder why fans stay at home and watch It is amazing that the TV matches dont have any seperate focus from the promoters isnt it? Guess what. Breaking news. Whisper this. Spoiler alert for any Promoters reading this.. "Unless its the play offs. Your crowd will be a lot less for a TV match than a non TV match, and it will do you no favours when it comes to showcasing your sport to potential future Speedway fans"... I presume the above must be "earth shattering" to read and some will he amazed at my "Poirot like" mystical powers of deduction, but it will invariably be true, given it is based on decades of TV coverage, and hundreds of TV matches.. And when you add in a "poor meeting", with strung out races and little passing (which let's be honest most meetings have more of than close exciting racing with lots of paasing), then anyone watching will put two and two together and decide "no wonder nobody goes", and wont ever bother trying it for themselves... Last night was an example where the scoreboard would have kept things interesting if a large noisy crowd had been in attendance, adding atmosphere to the occasion.. And if the promoters say that they couldn't afford to drop prices for the TV matches then they must rather have someone NOT there, and NOT paying them ANY money at all, than someone actually BEING THERE, GIVING THEM MONEY, say a Tenner, and adding atmosphere to the occasion, improving the overall positive experience of the visit, and making it look to the wider outside sporting world that have tuned in, that the sport is popular and that they could just be missing out on something.. A "strange" and quite "unique" business plan to have a two hour advert on TV, and make your product look so poorly purchased.. .... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplepanthernotred Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 28 minutes ago, mikebv said: It is amazing that the TV matches dont have any seperate focus from the promoters isnt it? Guess what. Breaking news. Whisper this. Spoiler alert for any Promoters reading this.. "Unless its the play offs. Your crowd will be a lot less for a TV match than a non TV match, and it will do you no favours when it comes to showcasing your sport to potential future Speedway fans"... I presume the above must be "earth shattering" to read and some will he amazed at my "Poirot like" mystical powers of deduction, but it will invariably be true, given it is based on decades of TV coverage, and hundreds of TV matches.. And when you add in a "poor meeting", with strung out races and little passing (which let's be honest most meetings have more of than close exciting racing with lots of paasing), then anyone watching will put two and two together and decide "no wonder nobody goes", and wont ever bother trying it for themselves... Last night was an example where the scoreboard would have kept things interesting if a large noisy crowd had been in attendance, adding atmosphere to the occasion.. And if the promoters say that they couldn't afford to drop prices for the TV matches then they must rather have someone NOT there, and NOT paying them ANY money at all, than someone actually BEING THERE, GIVING THEM MONEY, say a Tenner, and adding atmosphere to the occasion, improving the overall positive experience of the visit, and making it look to the wider outside sporting world that have tuned in, that the sport is popular and that they could just be missing out on something.. A "strange" and quite "unique" business plan to have a two hour advert on TV, and make your product look so poorly purchased.. .... When they drop prices for tv matches it would make sense if viable, half the price and hopefully pack the place out 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Redpanther said: When they drop prices for tv matches it would make sense if viable, half the price and hopefully pack the place out And if they were really innovative and proactive they would advertise the whole next seven days of racing from around the country through out the two hours.. Maybe having promoters on from other tracks discussing their up coming meetings.. Plymouth for example race Tuesdays so I am sure they would like some national TV mentions 24 hours before... Poole Wednesday, Sheffield Thursday, Edinburgh Friday, Leicester Saturday, Newcastle Sunday, etc etc etc.. Many of the watching public would he very surprised at how much Speedway exists in the UK, and how "big it is" I would suggest. And some may actually get told they have a track in their own town!! You could turn maybe 30 mins of the 2 hours into discussing forthcoming meetings and the current league tables etc. Making that 30 mins into a kind of "magazine type" programme... Got to be better and more beneficial to the sport than Sam asking yet another rider for the umpteenth time "how ya finding the track buddy?".... Edited May 17, 2022 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89buttons Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 1 hour ago, mikebv said: It is amazing that the TV matches dont have any seperate focus from the promoters isnt it? Guess what. Breaking news. Whisper this. Spoiler alert for any Promoters reading this.. "Unless its the play offs. Your crowd will be a lot less for a TV match than a non TV match, and it will do you no favours when it comes to showcasing your sport to potential future Speedway fans"... I presume the above must be "earth shattering" to read and some will he amazed at my "Poirot like" mystical powers of deduction, but it will invariably be true, given it is based on decades of TV coverage, and hundreds of TV matches.. And when you add in a "poor meeting", with strung out races and little passing (which let's be honest most meetings have more of than close exciting racing with lots of paasing), then anyone watching will put two and two together and decide "no wonder nobody goes", and wont ever bother trying it for themselves... Last night was an example where the scoreboard would have kept things interesting if a large noisy crowd had been in attendance, adding atmosphere to the occasion.. And if the promoters say that they couldn't afford to drop prices for the TV matches then they must rather have someone NOT there, and NOT paying them ANY money at all, than someone actually BEING THERE, GIVING THEM MONEY, say a Tenner, and adding atmosphere to the occasion, improving the overall positive experience of the visit, and making it look to the wider outside sporting world that have tuned in, that the sport is popular and that they could just be missing out on something.. A "strange" and quite "unique" business plan to have a two hour advert on TV, and make your product look so poorly purchased.. .... Ok so if 500 people attend at £20 if the promotion drop it to £10 they need double the amount of punters through the gates to make the same money…what assurances are there that they’ll get those punters through cos any less extra people the reduction gets they lose money. speedway is not an affluent sport, it’s run on fine margins, no promotion in this country is laughing their way to the bank are they. tbh the simple fact of the matter is British speedway in it’s current form gets little from being broadcast, they don’t get a great deal from the tv rights financially and it’s not exactly making more and more people turn up at tracks, more energy should be put into local advertisement and promotion than tv. it’s also quite unfair to tell a speedway promotion their product is worth less today just cos it’s on tv tonight, all their costs on staging are meeting are the same, riders earn the same etc etc. I don’t disagree speedway meetings without atmosphere are much much more rose and home teams certainly feed of the energy of a lively crowd and more people cheering them on from the terraces, but not at the cost of promotions taking big financial hits they can little afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, 89buttons said: Ok so if 500 people attend at £20 if the promotion drop it to £10 they need double the amount of punters through the gates to make the same money…what assurances are there that they’ll get those punters through cos any less extra people the reduction gets they lose money. speedway is not an affluent sport, it’s run on fine margins, no promotion in this country is laughing their way to the bank are they. tbh the simple fact of the matter is British speedway in it’s current form gets little from being broadcast, they don’t get a great deal from the tv rights financially and it’s not exactly making more and more people turn up at tracks, more energy should be put into local advertisement and promotion than tv. it’s also quite unfair to tell a speedway promotion their product is worth less today just cos it’s on tv tonight, all their costs on staging are meeting are the same, riders earn the same etc etc. I don’t disagree speedway meetings without atmosphere are much much more rose and home teams certainly feed of the energy of a lively crowd and more people cheering them on from the terraces, but not at the cost of promotions taking big financial hits they can little afford. You could be a promoter... They wont be making ANY money on those crowd levels currently, and is very likely also "brand damaging" by being seen as so "empty", so "do something different"... But do it as part of a strategic growth plan for your business.. Not as a "one off"... Give the bloody thing away free for one night if needs be and get personal info, names, addresses, birthdays (especially kids birthdays), and mobile phone and email info off everyone who attends, so you can target market them ongoing.. Didnt Lakeside get 7000 in one night when they let everyone in for free?.. Then. The week after they were back to normal because they didnt "milk" this captured market ongoing for longer term rewards.. Being an old retailer. A basic "loss leader" generates longer term loyalty "if" you use it well... And you do this by delivering a great experience when those who maybe havent used you before rock up and give you a go... And, as we know, the bigger the crowd the more the noise, the more the noise, the better the atmosphere, the better the atmosphere, the better the overall experience, and the better the overall experience the more likelihood the chances of repeat visits... They could though obviously choose to simply carry on doing the "same old, same old" and therefore carry on getting the same "success" and reward.. Edited May 17, 2022 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 2 hours ago, mikebv said: It is amazing that the TV matches dont have any seperate focus from the promoters isnt it? Guess what. Breaking news. Whisper this. Spoiler alert for any Promoters reading this.. "Unless its the play offs. Your crowd will be a lot less for a TV match than a non TV match, and it will do you no favours when it comes to showcasing your sport to potential future Speedway fans"... I presume the above must be "earth shattering" to read and some will he amazed at my "Poirot like" mystical powers of deduction, but it will invariably be true, given it is based on decades of TV coverage, and hundreds of TV matches.. And when you add in a "poor meeting", with strung out races and little passing (which let's be honest most meetings have more of than close exciting racing with lots of paasing), then anyone watching will put two and two together and decide "no wonder nobody goes", and wont ever bother trying it for themselves... Last night was an example where the scoreboard would have kept things interesting if a large noisy crowd had been in attendance, adding atmosphere to the occasion.. And if the promoters say that they couldn't afford to drop prices for the TV matches then they must rather have someone NOT there, and NOT paying them ANY money at all, than someone actually BEING THERE, GIVING THEM MONEY, say a Tenner, and adding atmosphere to the occasion, improving the overall positive experience of the visit, and making it look to the wider outside sporting world that have tuned in, that the sport is popular and that they could just be missing out on something.. A "strange" and quite "unique" business plan to have a two hour advert on TV, and make your product look so poorly purchased.. .... I went to the Peterborough match last week even though it was on TV as I generally prefer the "live" experience... in hindsight I wish I hadn't though... did I just get unlucky with the track conditions? Slick and not much close racing/passing until very much later in the meeting or was the track deliberately prepared in such a way to provide a "safe" meeting? There are too many crap meetings on TV for it to be a coincidence, aren't there? I would compare British Speedway with Women's football as regards crowd numbers, look how it's been force fed to the British public, look at the crowd figures: https://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-frauen-womens-super-league-2018-2019/3/ and how they've increased since the force feeding. I caught a few minutes of the Womens FA Cup final at the weekend and thought how comparative it was to a Cardiff crowd (in terms of numbers, around 50,000)... I wonder how many of those tickets were freebies or discounted to give the impression of it being a large paying crowd? 1 hour ago, 89buttons said: tbh the simple fact of the matter is British speedway in it’s current form gets little from being broadcast, they don’t get a great deal from the tv rights financially and it’s not exactly making more and more people turn up at tracks, more energy should be put into local advertisement and promotion than tv. it’s also quite unfair to tell a speedway promotion their product is worth less today just cos it’s on tv tonight, all their costs on staging are meeting are the same, riders earn the same etc etc. Do you know how much it costs to buy TV advertising space for 2 and a half hours on a prime time Monday evening slot being carried worldwide? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, iainb said: I went to the Peterborough match last week even though it was on TV as I generally prefer the "live" experience... in hindsight I wish I hadn't though... did I just get unlucky with the track conditions? Slick and not much close racing/passing until very much later in the meeting or was the track deliberately prepared in such a way to provide a "safe" meeting? There are too many crap meetings on TV for it to be a coincidence, aren't there? I would compare British Speedway with Women's football as regards crowd numbers, look how it's been force fed to the British public, look at the crowd figures: https://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-frauen-womens-super-league-2018-2019/3/ and how they've increased since the force feeding. I caught a few minutes of the Womens FA Cup final at the weekend and thought how comparative it was to a Cardiff crowd (in terms of numbers, around 50,000)... I wonder how many of those tickets were freebies or discounted to give the impression of it being a large paying crowd? Do you know how much it costs to buy TV advertising space for 2 and a half hours on a prime time Monday evening slot being carried worldwide? There is a reason "influencers" can earn zillions of quids.... Tell someone a lie long enough and it becomes the truth.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 16 minutes ago, mikebv said: Didnt Lakeside get 7000 in one night when they let everyone in for free?.. I don’t think it was as much as 7000 but they certainly had a night where they let everyone in free. It was a disaster though, partly because it was mainly existing speedway fans coming from as far away as Wolverhampton on a freebie, and partly because it made almost no difference to subsequent attendances. Think biggest single thing that made a difference was Chris Holder and Darcy Ward coming on a Lakeside v Poole Sky broadcast . Several enquiries were made by first timers who were impressed by the Turbo Twins and probably thought they would see racing like that every week. I don’t think you will ever improve attendances without improving the product but frankly we just don’t have the riders to do that anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, E I Addio said: I don’t think it was as much as 7000 but they certainly had a night where they let everyone in free. It was a disaster though, partly because it was mainly existing speedway fans coming from as far away as Wolverhampton on a freebie, and partly because it made almost no difference to subsequent attendances. Think biggest single thing that made a difference was Chris Holder and Darcy Ward coming on a Lakeside v Poole Sky broadcast . Several enquiries were made by first timers who were impressed by the Turbo Twins and probably thought they would see racing like that every week. I don’t think you will ever improve attendances without improving the product but frankly we just don’t have the riders to do that anymore. I remember it looking great on TV! In fact a lot of us can remember it and keep referring to it... I wonder why that is? Edited May 17, 2022 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 22 minutes ago, mikebv said: Give the bloody thing away free for one night if needs be and get personal info, names, addresses, birthdays (especially kids birthdays), and mobile phone and email info off everyone who attends, The Data Protection Act prevents you from holding those details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 31 minutes ago, mikebv said: Give the bloody thing away free for one night if needs be and get personal info, names, addresses, birthdays (especially kids birthdays), and mobile phone and email info off everyone who attends, so you can target market them ongoing.. therefore carry on getting the same "success" and reward.. 2 minutes ago, E I Addio said: The Data Protection Act prevents you from holding those details. Then I must be breaking the law. I run a small business and having paid to register my business with the Information Commissioner's Office (ico) I can hold such information about my customers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 29 minutes ago, E I Addio said: The Data Protection Act prevents you from holding those details. No it doesn't along as the information is used & stored inline with the regulations. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) 42 minutes ago, False dawn said: Then I must be breaking the law. I run a small business and having paid to register my business with the Information Commissioner's Office (ico) I can hold such information about my customers. 20 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: No it doesn't along as the information is used & stored inline with the regulations. Ok , I stand corrected on that, but one still has to look at the practicality if this type of marketing and not simply assume it will work. Someone has to administer it in a sport that is largely run by volunteers. I remember an article either on here or in a speedway Star years ago when Mick Bratley was involved with Peterborough. He did an enormous amount of legwork with flyers and special deals, reduced entries etc, including the large Polish community around Peterborough and little or nothing came of it, and Mick was far more committed than most. Then Rick Frost took over at Peterborough, on of the best Promoters of modern times, and a successful businessman who knew what he was doing. He spent a fortune but it was all down a black hole. Now I agree , that with the likes of the unimaginative Godfrey running the show the sport couldn’t be in a worse position but all these marketing ideas have been suggested and tried and tested and re-tried and re- tested over the years and not really worked. The absolute bottom line as far as I can see is that if the product is not right people won’t keep coming back and paying 20quid a time to see processional racing or even good racing unless it is there all or most of the time. Hence my comment earlier about Holder and Ward. To be fair what is there to keep a rider of even modest talent riding in the UK if he can earn more abroad? It pains me to say this but times have changed, people have changed and entertainment has changed but speedway and indeed all stadium based entertainment ie stock cars and greyhounds has largely been left behind . There used to be 30 greyhound tracks in the London area, now there is one. What does that tell you ? Edited May 17, 2022 by E I Addio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singy13 Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 I haven't read 100% of the comments on this Ipswich v Sheffield scenario......but a lack of crowd at the Foxhall stadium last night is mentioned..... It appeared on TV shots that not many were indeed present.....What sort of intrigued me was when the riders lined up before Heat One for their introductions - it looked like they were only being introduced to the Referee and Announcer.....there wasn't many more bodies around the starting gate area. Is that always the case at Ipswich ? I have been accustomed to being amongst low level crowds at Derwent Park and that caused the promotions to eventually shut down........let's hope it was only live TV syndrome last night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 12 hours ago, orion said: Sudden Sam is the worst of time Sam couldn't have put it better himself 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbw Posted May 17, 2022 Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 Like many may av already mentioned, only charge £10 or even less to attend a TV meeting. Speedway IS a £10 sport anyways & it's been proven that the support is there if charged the appropriate admission. Charge less & more people will attend. Simple equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted May 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2022 5 hours ago, Haza said: Can we really wonder why fans stay away on tv nights ? Travel costs and admission - then all we hear daily on the media cost of living crisis so if fans have access to Eurosport can any really wonder why fans stay at home and watch I understand that things are tight, and don't blame fans watching it at home to save a few quid. What makes me cringe is when the pan to the one man and his dog in the crowd several times, and the "there's a good crowd in tonight" comment we usually get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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