The current state of the SGB CHAMPIONSHIP

[wtf]

Whilst I agree with pretty much all the sentiments above, and sounding off makes many feel better, I fear you are all just wasting your breath and your time. The fundamental failings of speedway in the uk are simply that the sport is governed and run by those individual business owners within it. They manipulate whatever is necessary to their own ends, and will continue to do so. Any new member to the club will soon be hounded out or suppressed if they start to break the mould.

Until that changes, everything else is window dressing, posturing, and general BS

Its never going to change voluntarily, as to do so, you need all these business owners to hand over the control of the rules by which their businesses operate. This isn't a championship problem, it's all uk leagues. The only way these people are going to hand over control is ££££ and lots of it.

That's very unlikely, so if you want to carry on bickering about how wrong things are, fine, but at least be realistic. Unless some Barry Hearne type figure walks through the door offering big £££ to take control of UK speedway, It's not going to change. All the BS in the world is just spin.

When all is said and done, we are just customers of some business who sell a product. They do as little as they can to get as much ££ as they can. Your 'rights' are you can either buy the product or not. You can bitch and moan about it or not. And please don't ever quote the 'fans' thing. Fans are just a clever marketing ploy to make individuals buy into a brand where they will make illogical decisions and spend more money on a product than is sensible. Turn someone into a fan and you have a gullible cash cow waiting for you at every opportunity. Might sound harsh, but it's true.

I think we should just spend more time enjoying the simplicity of watching 4 people racing 4 laps with no brakes a bit more, for what it is. Trying to ignore what we know goes on in the background. 

If you think too hard about the rest of it, it just sucks the life and soul out of you. 

Keep hoping for a Barry Hearne type figure to come along, but I believe that opportunity was had, and rejected 25 years or so ago. 

[cinderfella]

9 minutes ago, wtf said:

Whilst I agree with pretty much all the sentiments above, and sounding off makes many feel better, I fear you are all just wasting your breath and your time. The fundamental failings of speedway in the uk are simply that the sport is governed and run by those individual business owners within it. They manipulate whatever is necessary to their own ends, and will continue to do so. Any new member to the club will soon be hounded out or suppressed if they start to break the mould.

Until that changes, everything else is window dressing, posturing, and general BS

Its never going to change voluntarily, as to do so, you need all these business owners to hand over the control of the rules by which their businesses operate. This isn't a championship problem, it's all uk leagues. The only way these people are going to hand over control is ££££ and lots of it.

That's very unlikely, so if you want to carry on bickering about how wrong things are, fine, but at least be realistic. Unless some Barry Hearne type figure walks through the door offering big £££ to take control of UK speedway, It's not going to change. All the BS in the world is just spin.

When all is said and done, we are just customers of some business who sell a product. They do as little as they can to get as much ££ as they can. Your 'rights' are you can either buy the product or not. You can bitch and moan about it or not. And please don't ever quote the 'fans' thing. Fans are just a clever marketing ploy to make individuals buy into a brand where they will make illogical decisions and spend more money on a product than is sensible. Turn someone into a fan and you have a gullible cash cow waiting for you at every opportunity. Might sound harsh, but it's true.

I think we should just spend more time enjoying the simplicity of watching 4 people racing 4 laps with no brakes a bit more, for what it is. Trying to ignore what we know goes on in the background. 

If you think too hard about the rest of it, it just sucks the life and soul out of you. 

Keep hoping for a Barry Hearne type figure to come along, but I believe that opportunity was had, and rejected 25 years or so ago. 

Yip until the sport has a TOTALLY INDEPENDENT ruling body it is going nowhere but down the tube.

99% of Promoters (and I use that term loosely) are only interested in their own team/league and can't see the fuller picture.

 

Many claim they lose money season after season. That's because they don't listen to the paying public and make changes that will benefit themselves and the sport as a whole.

When Poole stepped down from the Premier League it was after asking fans and it has paid dividends for them and I doubt the standard of racing has changed much given the PL & CL used 90% of the same riders.

 

[mikebv]

2 hours ago, OGT said:

Speedway is lucky it has some people left who put up with all the shenanigans.

Very true...

With the ultimate irony being that those within the "Speedway Bubble" don't see the untold damage they do by the way they run it...

Not many successful businesses will have part of their business plan..

"Proactively alienate a fair proportion of our customer base through our operating model" I would imagine..

A great product but in the wrong hands maybe? 

[OGT]

22 minutes ago, mikebv said:

A great product but in the wrong hands maybe? 

Definitely.

[LisaColette]

1 hour ago, cinderfella said:

Yip until the sport has a TOTALLY INDEPENDENT ruling body it is going nowhere but down the tube.

99% of Promoters (and I use that term loosely) are only interested in their own team/league and can't see the fuller picture.

 

Many claim they lose money season after season. That's because they don't listen to the paying public and make changes that will benefit themselves and the sport as a whole.

When Poole stepped down from the Premier League it was after asking fans and it has paid dividends for them and I doubt the standard of racing has changed much given the PL & CL used 90% of the same riders.

 

They did, but I have a feeling Matt had made his mind up anyway and was a case of everyone being in the same boat. I could be way off though! 

[Ghosty]

U.K. Speedway's biggest problem is the lack of riders. If 3 new/additional teams were applying to join the existing Premier or Championship leagues in 2023 it would not be possible - not enough riders. This is a problem that should be addressed now & the riders should be U.K. based for various reasons mainly cost.

[IronScorpion]

16 hours ago, HGould said:

Let's go back to 2018 when The CHAIRMAN lost a rider to injury so gave himself a Guest ALL season and even cancelled others Clubs Fixtures so he could get a suitable Guest. 

Let's look at the failure post Brexit to be prepared for Visa delays that were clearly going to happen 

Let's look at the failure to put some sort of limit on the combined average of top 3 heat leaders. 

Let's look at the closed shop that is the PL meaning not enough riders to stock 11 CL Clubs to a more level playing field. 

It's far deeper than Newcastle, Birmingham and Plymouth. They are victims of the system as opposed to them being the perpetrators. 

The sport is run by a cartel, for the cartel full of their own agendas. 

Start with an inpedendent Governing body, separate the SCB which the BSPL have effectively taken over and neutered. 

 

If you are going to make a post, look(troll) back & find some truths!

In 2018, CHAPMAN was still the CHAIRMAN & GODFREY his VICE. http://scunthorpe-speedway.com/?p=8003

We did lose S Worrall early season but he DID come back late July, early August so NOT ALL season.

Brexit was happening but we were ill prepared as our Prime Minister jumped ship & left a clown in charge.

Hindsight is wonderful for the limit on top 3 heat leaders but it was a rule touted years ago but never implemented(plenty of riders back then.

Is 6 man teams the way to go with unattatched riders as guests?

Name an instance where the "cartel" has used influence?

BUT, I do agree with an Independent Body(ex promoters, referees, riders). The SCB & BSP Ltd are separate committees.

[George Dodds]

So who pays for this independent body? 

[SteveLyric2]

2 minutes ago, George Dodds said:

So who pays for this independent body? 

...and can anyone name a truly independent body with no ties, loyalties or preferences to any team past or present, as well as having a modicum of working knowledge of the sport?!

[lbw]

9 minutes ago, George Dodds said:

So who pays for this independent body? 

I will av to ask Judge Rinder!  

[cinderfella]

30 minutes ago, IronScorpion said:

 

Is 6 man teams the way to go ?

How about 8 man teams with 7&8 being NDL standard riders who have not ridden in the main body of a PL or CL team.

Change the heat format and have 4 heats where the 7s & 8s only ride against each other with a start from each gate position.

The present 15ht system is flawed. Ht 15 is where the top 2 scorers from each team should face each other but how often does that not happen because either the match has already been decided or a (top) rider insists he gets the ride despite having scored poorly in his programmed rides?

 

Things need sorted but only the powerless fans seem to see that.

[StevePark]

32 minutes ago, cinderfella said:

How about 8 man teams with 7&8 being NDL standard riders who have not ridden in the main body of a PL or CL team.

Change the heat format and have 4 heats where the 7s & 8s only ride against each other with a start from each gate position.

The present 15ht system is flawed. Ht 15 is where the top 2 scorers from each team should face each other but how often does that not happen because either the match has already been decided or a (top) rider insists he gets the ride despite having scored poorly in his programmed rides?

 

Things need sorted but only the powerless fans seem to see that.

Did they not do this in 1993?

[cinderfella]

16 minutes ago, StevePark said:

Did they not do this in 1993?

Certainly had 8 men teams but I think 7 & 8 rode against the other riders

Heats 16, 17, & 18 were also for 5th & 6th, 3rd & 4th and top two scorers from each team.

Edited May 13, 2022 by cinderfella

[mikebv]

Just now, cinderfella said:

Certainly had 8 men teams but I think 7 & 8 rode against the other riders

And were 2nd Div standard riders not 3rd tier...

The Championship seriously needs to be the stepping stone between Div 1 and 3 with the team strengths spread out accordingly and evenly...

How they do that after many years of running teams made up of the Div 1 HL's I dont know...

Can't charge circa £20 for a lower standard of product can they? And I would imagine they will be loathe to drop the admission price..

[ruffdiamond]

5 minutes ago, cinderfella said:

Certainly had 8 men teams but I think 7 & 8 rode against the other riders

What happens if a reserve (7 or 8) gets injured, do you name a no.9 or just have 3 rider races?

Good idea, thinking outside the box, but that is another problem with that format.

Edited May 13, 2022 by ruffdiamond

[cinderfella]

1 minute ago, ruffdiamond said:

What happens if a reserve (7 or 8) gets injured, do you name a no.9 or just have 3 rider races?

Seem to recall back in 1993 there was the facility for a No 9.

Gets messy I know.

 

Maybe competitive 2nd halves should be brought back.

How about the old 'rider of the night' finals but with cumulative points carried forward to the end of the season and the winner getting a new bike or something?

Add a bit of interest with away riders scoring double or extra points perhaps?

Just an idea to make things interesting

[ruffdiamond]

Maybe the jump from NDL to CL is like the old jump from NNL to GBL,,, maybe going back to 2 leagues would be better. You might not be able to accommodate the worlds best, but let's face it, there ain't many around these shores anyway. There could maybe be room for amatuer junior teams to, remember the Felton Flyers?

[cinderfella]

27 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

Maybe the jump from NDL to CL is like the old jump from NNL to GBL,,, maybe going back to 2 leagues would be better. You might not be able to accommodate the worlds best, but let's face it, there ain't many around these shores anyway. There could maybe be room for amatuer junior teams to, remember the Felton Flyers?

Do we need the World's best?

British Speedway already operates without, arguably, without it's current best three riders. 

I've suggested for years that the GP series killed British Speedway. Ask Eastbourne and Arena fans or any of the other teams that had to do without their star riders on GP weekends.

Increase the number of GP rounds to 24 or similar like F1 and the top 15 riders plus a Wild Card can compete solely for the World Crown without league speedway getting in the way of their ambitions.

League speedway can then be for loyal riders and fans.

Edited May 13, 2022 by cinderfella

[HGould]

2 hours ago, IronScorpion said:

If you are going to make a post, look(troll) back & find some truths!

In 2018, CHAPMAN was still the CHAIRMAN & GODFREY his VICE. http://scunthorpe-speedway.com/?p=8003

We did lose S Worrall early season but he DID come back late July, early August so NOT ALL season.

Brexit was happening but we were ill prepared as our Prime Minister jumped ship & left a clown in charge.

Hindsight is wonderful for the limit on top 3 heat leaders but it was a rule touted years ago but never implemented(plenty of riders back then.

Is 6 man teams the way to go with unattatched riders as guests?

Name an instance where the "cartel" has used influence?

BUT, I do agree with an Independent Body(ex promoters, referees, riders). The SCB & BSP Ltd are separate committees.

As VC to Buster until late 2018,, was Mr Godfrey not effectively Chairman in all but name of CL under longstanding protocol that each of the 2 top leagues would not interfere in each others affairs. 

Have Plymouth and Birmingham not been denied signings this season by MC? 

Is it not the case that 2 Members of the BSPL MC are also on the SCB MC together with an ex BSPL Promoter thus ensuring overall control of SCB MC? I'm happy to be corrected on that if wrong. 

Is it not 100% the case that in 2018 on a number of occasions that Lakeside and Workington had matches called off at 3 to 4 days notice by MC due to lack of availability of Guests. Especially Lakeside and always on Fridays when Scunthorpe needed a Guest? 

[Fortythirtyeight]

23 minutes ago, HGould said:

As VC to Buster until late 2018,, was Mr Godfrey not effectively Chairman in all but name of CL under longstanding protocol that each of the 2 top leagues would not interfere in each others affairs. 

Have Plymouth and Birmingham not been denied signings this season by MC? 

Is it not the case that 2 Members of the BSPL MC are also on the SCB MC together with an ex BSPL Promoter thus ensuring overall control of SCB MC? I'm happy to be corrected on that if wrong. 

Is it not 100% the case that in 2018 on a number of occasions that Lakeside and Workington had matches called off at 3 to 4 days notice by MC due to lack of availability of Guests. Especially Lakeside and always on Fridays when Scunthorpe needed a Guest? 

In 2018 Godfrey was Vice Chairman, so no he was not in charge and no there was no such protocol of not interfering with each other’s affairs.

Lakeside, as I have pointed out on many occasions, we’re never ever granted Fridays as their PRIMARY race night for just that reason, not enough riders would be available. 
the ‘ MC’ do not call matches off because of lack of guests, that is a club matter.

Otherwise, your not far off.