Newcastle vs Glasgow 8/5/22 4pm??

[arnieg]

59 minutes ago, enotian said:

Isn't that the point though.  Neither of us know what the permission to operate speedway at Newcastle is.  Other than Newcastle supporters have been told numerous times that any break in the sport will result in the end of speedway at Brough as a new planning permission is unlikely to be granted for the sport to return to Brough.  Hence the "farewell track walk" at the end of last season when the sport was thought to be lost. Now planning permission might be a clumsy use of terminology but meaning a council approved permission to operate motorsports at Brough Park.

Now we can speculate that those statements from various promotions are untrue but I'm only quoting what has been stated.

My comment re Brandon was a question so not a misunderstanding (i only have a passing interest) which @noaksy has cleared up.

So is planning for football stadiums given ad infinitum? I don't think St James' Park is but it's council land with something like a 200 year lease to the football club such that it doesn't matter. Or could I for example demand that the flats built on Highbury are knocked down because there is planning permission to play football at that location? I'm guessing the planning permissions are changed to suit the desired outcome, if acceptable of course.

Plenty of former speedway tracks now under housing estates.  West Ham, Long Eaton Middlesbrough is a college I think? So nothing seems to be forever. 

Again you seem to have missed the point. Planning permissions are public documents in the public domain so if there is anything granted in the last 50 years it should be easy to find.

 

Secondly case law governing historic use where there is no recent consent leaves me pretty confident that Newcastle have established use planning permission. (And once established there is no requirement for continuous use)

[Diamonds85]

10 hours ago, Tsunami said:

To increase the number of racing  lines on the 1st and 2nd  bends, we decided in about 2000 to widen the track by taking the inside kerbing in by 2 metres. The same kerbs stones were used to create the new kerbing,  and you are right that the kerb foundation was left in place and the shale level increased by Tony Swales the then track curator. It was never thought to be a risk being deeper, and never showing until now when there appears to be a less shale covering. I remember in the 60's I think, that there had been an earlier concrete track under the 1st/2nd bends and it broke up and started to appear on the exact same spot  as the present problems. The concrete block was removed and I think most people will have forgot about it. Looking at the photo, I would guess someone has spotted something and deliberately scrapped the groove out with their steel shoe to show the foundation. The track action would not have  caused the shale to be divided and dumped in two straight lines either side of the concrete. Opportunist I think. BTW the 3rd and 4th bends had the same modification to the kerb line and there has never been a problem there, mainly I think, because it tends to be ridden out wider due to it being 2 metres wider, and also because the inside line of the 1st bend gets significalty more heavy traffic impact with all 4 riders from the tapes, hitting it in every race and more than any other part of the bends.

The drainage has always been a problem with our track. We had some plans which showed a diagonal drain across the centre green, but tests proved they were cracked and blocked and beyond use. There was a plan with a previous stadium owner to instal some new drains for the dogs and speedway,  but after looking likely to proceed, the owner backed out hoping we would still go ahead and we would pay for them.   

 

This is the point I tried to make a few pages back but people weren't very happy with my comment

[Diamonds85]

On 5/9/2022 at 12:26 PM, Diamonds85 said:

What was the reason he let him go again? I forget...

Honestly I thought the track was the smoothest it's been all year last night, but then again I get the best view of the 3rd/4th bend, which looked very smooth. The picture that's circulating is NOT acceptable, however it looks as if it was dug out by whoever took the photo first, which will have exaggerated it much worse than it really was. Please Rob, sort this club out, you came in at the final hour to save us, but why? If this is how you're going to run the show, I'd rather be remembered for who the club was before, not the sh*tshow it's turning into now.

 

[tyretrax]

How could anyone scrape the shale to make that "groove" without being noticed? The ridge on either side of it is concrete that has been pushed out when the kerb was laid into the wet concrete.

[ruffdiamond]

35 minutes ago, tyretrax said:

How could anyone scrape the shale to make that "groove" without being noticed? The ridge on either side of it is concrete that has been pushed out when the kerb was laid into the wet concrete.

Which is something that could've should've been addressed at the time when the track was altered,,, many moons ago?

Edited May 11, 2022 by ruffdiamond

[tyretrax]

44 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

Which is something that could've should've been addressed at the time when the track was altered,,, many moons ago?

Obviously it should have been. When the track at Shawfield was being cut there was a manhole for a drain which would have been in the middle of the track on the entry to the first turn. It was reduced by about a foot lid replaced and covered over with shale, it never caused any problems with the track.

Edited May 11, 2022 by tyretrax

[Tsunami]

4 hours ago, ruffdiamond said:

Which is something that could've should've been addressed at the time when the track was altered,,, many moons ago?

It wasn't an issue then and it has taken over 20 years before it became a problem, more through lack of shale covering the area. Never good to dig big holes on a racing line midseason and then getting the correct compaction to save it breaking up. Big changes like Glasgow did, are usually carried out off season to allow some natural settling in period. Shale and water react to each other pressure and that takes time to be complete.. 

[ruffdiamond]

2 hours ago, Tsunami said:

It wasn't an issue then and it has taken over 20 years before it became a problem, more through lack of shale covering the area. Never good to dig big holes on a racing line midseason and then getting the correct compaction to save it breaking up. Big changes like Glasgow did, are usually carried out off season to allow some natural settling in period. Shale and water react to each other pressure and that takes time to be complete.. 

Never a good job to just paper over the cracks,,, good prep is always the way forward. Back in the day a suppose there wasn't much thought for the future tho and corner cutting was possibly more likely to go on, maybe cutting bends in this case? 

[Diamondboy]

Hadrians wall rears it’s ugly head now and again, if you don’t keep the top stuff in good condition then the past makes an appearance.

[cinderfella]

43 minutes ago, Diamondboy said:

Hadrians wall rears it’s ugly head now and again, if you don’t keep the top stuff in good condition then the past makes an appearance.

Especially when the Picts come over the Border 

[ruffdiamond]

1 hour ago, Diamondboy said:

Hadrians wall rears it’s ugly head now and again, if you don’t keep the top stuff in good condition then the past makes an appearance.

 

30 minutes ago, cinderfella said:

Especially when the Picts come over the Border 

Aye, could always extend Segedugum or whatever its called? 

[Tsunami]

3 hours ago, ruffdiamond said:

Never a good job to just paper over the cracks,,, good prep is always the way forward. Back in the day a suppose there wasn't much thought for the future tho and corner cutting was possibly more likely to go on, maybe cutting bends in this case? 

There was no cost cutting or papering over the cracks RD. A decision was made to give more racing lines, and try to improve the racing, and that quick fix has lasted over 20 years till shale has been spared later.

[ruffdiamond]

12 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

There was no cost cutting or papering over the cracks RD. A decision was made to give more racing lines, and try to improve the racing, and that quick fix has lasted over 20 years till shale has been spared later.

Would definitely make for a good episode of Vera? 

[Viper]

23 hours ago, ruffdiamond said:

Never a good job to just paper over the cracks,,, good prep is always the way forward. Back in the day a suppose there wasn't much thought for the future tho and corner cutting was possibly more likely to go on, maybe cutting bends in this case? 

Erm what a load of rubbish.

The changes were made years ago and the alterations were done perfectly but the lack of investment into the track and the fact it has got more and more down to the base is not anything to do with the way it was handled at the time. If the track  had more shale added and been looked after the problem wouldn’t exist, the lack of shale has exposed the base of the track and led to the present position. 
 
I am sick of the excuses pointing a finger at the old promotion, yes there was issues but the problem with the track, team and the comms are all down to the present owners.

[ruffdiamond]

31 minutes ago, Viper said:

Erm what a load of rubbish.

The changes were made years ago and the alterations were done perfectly but the lack of investment into the track and the fact it has got more and more down to the base is not anything to do with the way it was handled at the time. If the track  had more shale added and been looked after the problem wouldn’t exist, the lack of shale has exposed the base of the track and led to the present position. 
 
I am sick of the excuses pointing a finger at the old promotion, yes there was issues but the problem with the track, team and the comms are all down to the present owners.

'Perfectly',,, so by looks of it, the old kerb stones were lifted out of they're foundations and filled in with shale. If you see that as 'perfect' then so be it.

What's that saying about putting lipstick on a pig?

Suppose its akin to having a tooth filled, the filling won't last forever and will eventually come out and am sure the dentist knows that, it's a root problem.  

As far as finger pointing and so on, its not good,,, but there seems to be many ready with they're knives out to stick them in. Maybe some bad blood around?

Edited May 12, 2022 by ruffdiamond

[Phil83]

32 minutes ago, Viper said:

Erm what a load of rubbish.

The changes were made years ago and the alterations were done perfectly but the lack of investment into the track and the fact it has got more and more down to the base is not anything to do with the way it was handled at the time. If the track  had more shale added and been looked after the problem wouldn’t exist, the lack of shale has exposed the base of the track and led to the present position. 
 
I am sick of the excuses pointing a finger at the old promotion, yes there was issues but the problem with the track, team and the comms are all down to the present owners.

How can you blame rob or Dave for the track when the kerb was removed when Jesper Olsen rode at Newcastle not when rob and Dave had anything to do with it the issue was noticed and was being fixed this weekend anyway which was communicated in the program on page one and the track was short of shale for years not just the last two years

[ruffdiamond]

14 minutes ago, Phil83 said:

How can you blame rob or Dave for the track when the kerb was removed when Jesper Olsen rode at Newcastle not when rob and Dave had anything to do with it the issue was noticed and was being fixed this weekend anyway which was communicated in the program on page one and the track was short of shale for years not just the last two years

Hasn't there been a problem with standing water/drainage on that area of the track and wasn't it to be investigated further?,,, maybe the Grace St canal had became blocked (with shale). 

It's a poisoned chalice.

Edited May 12, 2022 by ruffdiamond

[Phil83]

14 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

Hasn't there been a problem with standing water/drainage on that area of the track and wasn't it to be investigated further?,,, maybe the Grace St canal had became blocked (with shale). 

It's a poisoned chalice.

The club can’t be blamed for the drainage when the dogs won’t allow any drainage around the centre green so keep pointing fingers and I will shoot you down when you have no clue 

[cinderfella]

So just when did Brough Park become Rough Park?

I remember visiting in the 70s to see the great Diamonds team with the Owen Brothers overseen by the late Ian Thomas and the track never seemed to be problematic.

Likewise in the early 2000s.

So is it down to neglect, poor maintenance and mis- management or is the old lady just starting to show her age?

[ruffdiamond]

13 minutes ago, Phil83 said:

The club can’t be blamed for the drainage when the dogs won’t allow any drainage around the centre green so keep pointing fingers and I will shoot you down when you have no clue 

Hmmm, whose pointing fingers at who?