BERWICK v NEWCASTLE (Championship) Sat 30th 7pm

[LisaColette]

26 minutes ago, Bandit59 said:

Anyone know the Bandits new averages?

Harris 8.26

Wells 7.09

Flint 6.43

Piper 5.61

Proctor 4.92

Jye 5.87

Bickley 3.70

 

[Weeyin]

27 minutes ago, Bandit59 said:

Anyone know the Bandits new averages?

On the British League website

[MartinBSN]

1 hour ago, Bandits4eva said:

Got to ask… what’s with the swapping of reserves all the time?! Why not just put Congreve at 6 and Complin at 7?! 

Poor George Congreve must wonder why he’s bothered to come over when he’s the sacrificial lamb being put in the far harder heats! Should’ve let him be in his rides and left Lee in his! Like i thought would happen, he certainly hasn’t forgot how to ride here.. one of the very few who has the balls big enough to go as wide as what is needed! 
 

Anyways, seems we’re likely to be without Leon for today.. I made a suggestion to crescent girl last night about a potential guest with Leon being our 3rd heat leader (apparently you can do that this season). Whether or not we go guest or rr, with all bar Bomber being able to take a ride, will be interesting! 

Guest for top 3 has been a rule a while

[LisaColette]

36 minutes ago, Bandit59 said:

Anyone know the Bandits new averages?

If the 5% column is for using guests ?? then 6.75 for Flint. 

[bloom89]

1 hour ago, Bandits4eva said:

Got to ask… what’s with the swapping of reserves all the time?! Why not just put Congreve at 6 and Complin at 7?! 

Poor George Congreve must wonder why he’s bothered to come over when he’s the sacrificial lamb being put in the far harder heats! Should’ve let him be in his rides and left Lee in his! Like i thought would happen, he certainly hasn’t forgot how to ride here.. one of the very few who has the balls big enough to go as wide as what is needed! 
 

Anyways, seems we’re likely to be without Leon for today.. I made a suggestion to crescent girl last night about a potential guest with Leon being our 3rd heat leader (apparently you can do that this season). Whether or not we go guest or rr, with all bar Bomber being able to take a ride, will be interesting! 

Jack Thomas after his performance last week? If not him then either Ash Morris or Connor Mountain who've previously had brough as there home track. If i was Berwick that's who I'd be looking at personally. 

[bloom89]

20 minutes ago, lisa-colette said:

If the 5% column is for using guests ?? then 6.75 for Flint. 

I thought the 5% allowance was just for using guests at home?

[LisaColette]

51 minutes ago, bloom89 said:

I thought the 5% allowance was just for using guests at home?

Idk tbh. It was just a guess as that's why I put the question marks  You would think you would need the extra 5% away from home than at home wouldn't you? 

[screm]

4 hours ago, Bandit59 said:

Plenty teams to choose a guest from today think only other match on  is Tigers v Monarchs, what is Leon's injury?

Leon dislocated his shoulder so will miss Newcastle today, hopefully wont be out for to long. There must be a question mark about his participation in the Under-21 Qualifier next Saturday.

[screm]

Newcastle fans should feel satisfied with their teams efforts last night, decent meeting with passing on a tricky track. Lee Complin was excellent, obviously on a track he knows well, unlucky that the rules meant he missed HT 15. Hopefully Berwick get Kyle Bickley going soon and he can sort out his mechanical gremlins. 

[Fromafar]

19 minutes ago, screm said:

Newcastle fans should feel satisfied with their teams efforts last night, decent meeting with passing on a tricky track. Lee Complin was excellent, obviously on a track he knows well, unlucky that the rules meant he missed HT 15. Hopefully Berwick get Kyle Bickley going soon and he can sort out his mechanical gremlins. 

The less said about Mechanical Gremlins in Speedway the better.IMO.

[leander]

3 hours ago, screm said:

Newcastle fans should feel satisfied with their teams efforts last night, decent meeting with passing on a tricky track. Lee Complin was excellent, obviously on a track he knows well, unlucky that the rules meant he missed HT 15. Hopefully Berwick get Kyle Bickley going soon and he can sort out his mechanical gremlins. 

What I find annoying is that Lee could of legitimately took part in Heat 15, and Steve pate should have been aware of that.

The regulation regarding heat 15 is as follows:-

011.1.27 Heat 15
Heat 15 in Premiership, Championship and NDL League Competitions.
Gate positions are determined by the outcome of the coin toss at the start
of the meeting.
The home Team Manager nominates first, but once nominated these cannot
be amended, except by the Referee should the nomination not conform to
the Regulations.
Nominations must be a ‘qualified’ rider, as follows: -
a) a rider in the 1-5 by MA (subject to them not already having taken
7 rides)
b) a reserve (6 th and 7 th by MA) who is in the top 3 point scorers
(including bonus points) from their programmed rides (subject to
them not already having taken 7 rides).
If a rider is disqualified for a Starting Offence a Team Manager may choose
either of the following options: -
a) the rider can start on a 15m handicap in positions c or d (the
opposing team does not change gate positions)
b) is replaced by a reserve who will start from the same gate position
at the tapes (subject to not having already taken 7 rides)

Granted he did not qualify under a) or b), however all that was requires was to nominate James Wright, then let him get disqualified under 2 minute rule. He can then be replaced by a reserve.

Et voila. Lee is in heat 15, as intended. Admittedly it just shows how bonkers the heat 15 regulation is, as it is possible for any of your 1 to 7 to take part. Steve Pate should have been aware of this, especially as it happened in Newcastle's first home match of the season when Paul Starke was excluded in heat 15 for exceeding the two minutes.

Would it have made any difference to the heat result, probably not as Harris was on fire last night.

 

[crescent girl]

I think everyone in the stadium was looking forward to Bomber and Lee crossing swords in Ht 15.

A lesson to the team managers who like to have their reserves swapping programmed rides?

[leander]

23 hours ago, crescent girl said:

I think everyone in the stadium was looking forward to Bomber and Lee crossing swords in Ht 15.

A lesson to the team managers who like to have their reserves swapping programmed rides?

Not really. Doesn't make any difference. Just needs to know the rules. (See my previous post above). Complin could have rode in heat 15 ( as could George!!!), it just needed James to be disqualified for exceeding the two minute time allowance in heat 15, then a reserve replacement, from the gate, is allowed.

[NeilWatson]

On 5/1/2022 at 8:40 AM, bloom89 said:

I thought the 5% allowance was just for using guests at home?

It is

On 5/1/2022 at 9:34 AM, lisa-colette said:

Idk tbh. It was just a guess as that's why I put the question marks  You would think you would need the extra 5% away from home than at home wouldn't you? 

 

[Gambo95]

12 minutes ago, leander said:

Not really. Doesn't make any difference. Just needs to know the rules. (See my previous post above). Complin could have rode in heat 15 ( as could George!!!), it just needed James to be disqualified for exceeding the two minute time allowance in heat 15, then a reserve replacement, from the gate, is allowed.

I wouldn't be happy if a team manager came up to me and said we are putting you in heat 15 but you are not going out onto the track. You are going to be excluded under the 2 minute rule.

If he said go out and try to anticipate the start. If you hit the tapes we will replace you then that wouldn't be as bad as there is the possibility you could get the race points.

[Al Stewart]

23 hours ago, leander said:

The regulation regarding heat 15 is as follows:-

011.1.27 Heat 15
Heat 15 in Premiership, Championship and NDL League Competitions.
Gate positions are determined by the outcome of the coin toss at the start
of the meeting.
The home Team Manager nominates first, but once nominated these cannot
be amended, except by the Referee should the nomination not conform to
the Regulations.
Nominations must be a ‘qualified’ rider, as follows: -
a) a rider in the 1-5 by MA (subject to them not already having taken
7 rides)
b) a reserve (6 th and 7 th by MA) who is in the top 3 point scorers
(including bonus points) from their programmed rides (subject to
them not already having taken 7 rides).
If a rider is disqualified for a Starting Offence a Team Manager may choose
either of the following options: -
a) the rider can start on a 15m handicap in positions c or d (the
opposing team does not change gate positions)
b) is replaced by a reserve who will start from the same gate position
at the tapes (subject to not having already taken 7 rides)

 

 

In the hotly-contested battle to find the stupidest rule in the book, the annual contortions of the heat 15 rule are very strong contenders.

What is the point of the rule? Well it is to ensure that the teams give the public value for money with four in-form riders in the last race, and don't go for cheapness by putting in the two worst and least expensive.

So instead of all this statistical waffle, the rule could be:

"The referee must be satisfied that the team managers have nominated a strong pair for heat 15', or maybe

"The referee may rule that teams must field a stronger pair than their initial nomination'.

That's all that is needed.

[Sings4Speedway]

On 5/1/2022 at 7:10 AM, Bandits4eva said:

Got to ask… what’s with the swapping of reserves all the time?! Why not just put Congreve at 6 and Complin at 7?! 

Poor George Congreve must wonder why he’s bothered to come over when he’s the sacrificial lamb being put in the far harder heats! Should’ve let him be in his rides and left Lee in his! Like i thought would happen, he certainly hasn’t forgot how to ride here.. one of the very few who has the balls big enough to go as wide as what is needed! 
 

Anyways, seems we’re likely to be without Leon for today.. I made a suggestion to crescent girl last night about a potential guest with Leon being our 3rd heat leader (apparently you can do that this season). Whether or not we go guest or rr, with all bar Bomber being able to take a ride, will be interesting! 

Think the swapping and the way the rides are split up should be looked at. No.7 meets an opposition reserve every time No.6 just twice. Surely first up a 3 / 3 split would be fairer and secondly the switches should be for legitimate cover reasons and not just tactical.  Teams would then have to build and help both reserves rather than just one and the other being included just to complete a 7 man side.

[enotian]

3 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Think the swapping and the way the rides are split up should be looked at. No.7 meets an opposition reserve every time No.6 just twice. Surely first up a 3 / 3 split would be fairer and secondly the switches should be for legitimate cover reasons and not just tactical.  Teams would then have to build and help both reserves rather than just one and the other being included just to complete a 7 man side.

I don't disagree but define 'legitimate cover reasons'.

Rules are difficult but it's part of the game and they are there to be exploited for competitive advantage by those clever enough to do so. That does of course lead to the clever teams building their sides in a certain way which (without sounding like a broken record) has caused problems this season in how competitive the Championship is.

You'd also need to ask if the current rules hinder the development of young riders handed the more difficult rides. If the BSPL are serious about developing young riders then maybe they do need to do something about it.

Here's a thought. Why not just have one reserve rider who has to ride at No.7? Since all riders have to have three rides (plus in meeting IRR) there's no need to have two reserves. Of course we want to avoid 3 rider races as much as possible but unless it's the No.7 who gets injured that should be limited. Maybe a return to more than one TAC sub would help in that respect.

[Sings4Speedway]

3 hours ago, enotian said:

I don't disagree but define 'legitimate cover reasons'.

Rules are difficult but it's part of the game and they are there to be exploited for competitive advantage by those clever enough to do so. That does of course lead to the clever teams building their sides in a certain way which (without sounding like a broken record) has caused problems this season in how competitive the Championship is.

You'd also need to ask if the current rules hinder the development of young riders handed the more difficult rides. If the BSPL are serious about developing young riders then maybe they do need to do something about it.

Here's a thought. Why not just have one reserve rider who has to ride at No.7? Since all riders have to have three rides (plus in meeting IRR) there's no need to have two reserves. Of course we want to avoid 3 rider races as much as possible but unless it's the No.7 who gets injured that should be limited. Maybe a return to more than one TAC sub would help in that respect.

Perhaps legitimate cover could extend to injury/withdrawel of the other reserve. Otherwise any rider missing the 2 mins goes off 15m, if they miss the 2nd 2 mins then a reserve goes off 15m rather than taking out 1-5 riders for advantage, lowest averaged rider has to ride at no.7 and no reserve swaps. Would make meetings a lot simpler, filling out a program neater and enable everyone to follow and not just those who have studied the rules for 15 years.

[HectorRacing]

What happened in the pit area? (If anyones seen the latest fb diamond post) 

 

was there an argument?