Redcar v Leicester

[Bellers101]

18 hours ago, mikebv said:

Should maybe have someone on the centre green in line with the tapes? 

Let the ref have the panoramic view for the incidents and the person on the centre green give the 51/49 verdicts...

 

Just put transponders on the bikes then there would be no argument who got to the finish line first. 

You would also get accurate race times.

They've had them on the karts on the racetrack next to Redcar speedway for years.

 

[1 valve]

On 4/24/2022 at 4:24 PM, Bellers101 said:

Just put transponders on the bikes then there would be no argument who got to the finish line first. 

You would also get accurate race times.

They've had them on the karts on the racetrack next to Redcar speedway for years.

 

Is it correct that the winner of a race is the rider who's front wheel crosses the line first (not his body or some other part of the bike)?
If it is, then this would mean when the leading edge of the front tyre crosses the finishing line. 
In which case how do you fit a transponder to rotating object?

An alternative suggestion would be for referees to have their own (approved) field monitor equipment (digital camera tech plus application kit) set up on the finishing line to provide a sufficient photo-finish type of "scan" for any close finishes that may come along. The reason the referee should provide it is because by doing so the kit would be used each and every time he/she referees a  match as opposed to a club providing it for a maximum of 1 meeting per week. 

Cost would be circa £300.00
 

[Happy Hunter]

Or change the rules so that the transponder can be fixed to something that doesn't revolve.

[Fortythirtyeight]

2 hours ago, Happy Hunter said:

Or change the rules so that the transponder can be fixed to something that doesn't revolve.

Like a fork leg that is used in other forms of motorcycle racing perhaps !

[IainB]

you know the distance between where ever the transponder is fitted on the bike and you know the speed the bike is doing (thanks to the transponder) so it's all easily calcuable

[Fromafar]

17 hours ago, 1 valve said:

Is it correct that the winner of a race is the rider who's front wheel crosses the line first (not his body or some other part of the bike)?
If it is, then this would mean when the leading edge of the front tyre crosses the finishing line. 
In which case how do you fit a transponder to rotating object?

An alternative suggestion would be for referees to have their own (approved) field monitor equipment (digital camera tech plus application kit) set up on the finishing line to provide a sufficient photo-finish type of "scan" for any close finishes that may come along. The reason the referee should provide it is because by doing so the kit would be used each and every time he/she referees a  match as opposed to a club providing it for a maximum of 1 meeting per week. 

Cost would be circa £300.00
 

Moto Gp and World Superbike use transponders.So it must be easy to change the rule and get the correct result .IMO.

[1 valve]

5 hours ago, Fromafar said:

Moto Gp and World Superbike use transponders.So it must be easy to change the rule and get the correct result .IMO.

Moto GP and World Superbikes use transponders to determine lap times not race results. 
This means that a transponder can be placed in different places on bikes but still provide accurate lap times.
in the event of a "dead heat" the result is determined by "photo finish" technology because as per speedway the winner is the rider who's front wheel crosses the line first.
 

[1 valve]

9 hours ago, iainb said:

you know the distance between where ever the transponder is fitted on the bike and you know the speed the bike is doing (thanks to the transponder) so it's all easily calcuable

Transponders do not relay speeds, They relay the time taken between each time it passes the receiving device. Similarly, speedway bikes do not follow an exact route each lap so the speed cannot be calculated as it is not known how far the bike has travelled (speed = distance/time)
On MotoGP bikes (as an example) speed and other similar types of data are recorded "on bike" and downloaded/extracted when the rider returns to the pit as "live" telemetry is not allowed in MotoGp (it is in F1 and the cost of such equipment would furnish the speedway GP paddock with a new bike for each meeting) 
To get that data collected and sorted into quick to read format for each bike the following is the approx numbers required for the "on bike tech"
Number of sensors = 50
Number of channels circa 1000, 600 managed by the ECU & 400 managed by the software.
Amount of data managed 60GB
Length of cables on a bike 150m

Just put a camera on the line - then the winner is there for all to see - as per Moto GP & F1 

 

A

Edited April 26, 2022 by 1 valve

[Fromafar]

1 hour ago, 1 valve said:

Moto GP and World Superbikes use transponders to determine lap times not race results. 
This means that a transponder can be placed in different places on bikes but still provide accurate lap times.
in the event of a "dead heat" the result is determined by "photo finish" technology because as per speedway the winner is the rider who's front wheel crosses the line first.
 

What is happening in Polish Extraleague,surely the bike that does the fastest 4 laps  is the race winner,the chances of a dead heat using transponders is minimal.

[IainB]

1 hour ago, 1 valve said:

Transponders do not relay speeds, They relay the time taken between each time it passes the receiving device. Similarly, speedway bikes do not follow an exact route each lap so the speed cannot be calculated as it is not known how far the bike has travelled (speed = distance/time)
On MotoGP bikes (as an example) speed and other similar types of data are recorded "on bike" and downloaded/extracted when the rider returns to the pit as "live" telemetry is not allowed in MotoGp (it is in F1 and the cost of such equipment would furnish the speedway GP paddock with a new bike for each meeting) 
To get that data collected and sorted into quick to read format for each bike the following is the approx numbers required for the "on bike tech"
Number of sensors = 50
Number of channels circa 1000, 600 managed by the ECU & 400 managed by the software.
Amount of data managed 60GB
Length of cables on a bike 150m

Just put a camera on the line - then the winner is there for all to see - as per Moto GP & F1 

 

A

I stand corrected, thanks for the info, good to know

[Fortythirtyeight]

1 hour ago, Fromafar said:

What is happening in Polish Extraleague,surely the bike that does the fastest 4 laps  is the race winner,the chances of a dead heat using transponders is minimal.

and if the ‘ fastest ‘ rider makes a big mistake on the last bends and doesn’t therefore win ?

[IainB]

1 hour ago, Fromafar said:

What is happening in Polish Extraleague,surely the bike that does the fastest 4 laps  is the race winner,the chances of a dead heat using transponders is minimal.

I thought they showed the rider speeds and reaction times etc on the Polish coverage also

Edited April 26, 2022 by iainb

[Fromafar]

2 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

and if the ‘ fastest ‘ rider makes a big mistake on the last bends and doesn’t therefore win ?

It’s obvious he isn’t the fastest over 4 laps and wasn’t first across the finishing line which is what counts,therefore didn’t win the race.Your getting silly now.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Fromafar

[Fromafar]

2 hours ago, iainb said:

I thought they showed the rider speeds and reaction times etc on the Polish coverage also

They do,plus the distance they covered in the race.Very interesting,

[W9 Lion]

12 hours ago, iainb said:

I thought they showed the rider speeds and reaction times etc on the Polish coverage also

What you are talking about is the accelerometer on the bike, which is different to a transponder.

[W9 Lion]

Also I should add for a transponder to work their needs to be a loop beneath the finish line to act as a timing point. If you look the SGP promoters have had to dig up the track for this weekend SPG to drop in the loop.

[Yearbyred]

Two pages of how to decide who crossed the line first and lots of suggestions on what should be done.

Why don’t you just ask me and Sidewinder who crossed the line first, we always agree ….

 

[Fromafar]

1 hour ago, Yearbyred said:

Two pages of how to decide who crossed the line first and lots of suggestions on what should be done.

Why don’t you just ask me and Sidewinder who crossed the line first, we always agree ….

 

Agree just leave to the Ref.Redcar seems to have more problem with close results than most though.Specsavers for some Refs no doubt.

[pvm]

10 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Agree just leave to the Ref.Redcar seems to have more problem with close results than most though.Specsavers for some Refs no doubt.

That might be to do with having more close races, rather than “gate and go”