Premiership Pairs

[bigcatdiary]

The format itself is entertaining and is perhaps worth pursuing but the idea to enforce a reserve to have a ride is pointless, I think this detracted from the overall competition.

Going forward I would suggest any 2 of your top 5 with a teams no 6 or either of the Rising stars at reserve but definitely letting the TM chose his line up and his choice as to whether he uses a reserve or not.

No guests please, whatever is chosen.

Edited May 24, 2022 by bigcatdiary

[tellboy]

Just now, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

He had taken a different line but Lawson then turned left onto it........

Imo Lawson never came off the racing line,he was just a lot slower.We use to call Sitera the road block because he would gate and was always slower than the other guys.It's up to them to get around him.

[redlead]

All in all, a poor meeting with very little racing. I think the final was a case of giving the ref an option of putting all 4 back in the a rerun. No one really did anything wrong, Ellis was just left with no where to go. I hope other tracks can produce better racing.

[scoobydoo]

4 minutes ago, tellboy said:

Imo Lawson never came off the racing line,he was just a lot slower.We use to call Sitera the road block because he would gate and was always slower than the other guys.It's up to them to get around him.

Maybe the trailing hair blocked Ellis vision 

At least Lynn kept up there record of only riding against teams missing riders 

[wtf]

17 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

 

So he should be!!

A victim of the scoring system requiring Lawson to manufacture a pass to avoid last as opposed to being encouraged to fight for the race win

Looking back as much as forwards for 2 laps acting as a rolling road block and then turning left at a slower speed was only ever gonna end one way....

Very lucky it wasnt a more serious incident - Ellis unlucky to be excluded IMO

You are absolutely right about the crash being caused by the scoring system. This pairs scoring format introduces a race where the only thing is to not finish last. Once Holder had gone, you could see that Lawson was trying to slow the race down and had been doing so for at least a lap before, backing Ellis into pickering to hopefully secure the pass. These bikes when flat out are not easy to slow down or change line.

Richard certainly turned left on Adam. But I have some sympathy with them both, as it's not as though Adam didn't know what was happening, and could have been prepared for it. Only time recently I have seen similar was the championship Pairs 2017 at sheffield when Ben Barker tried to slow the race down backing Kyle Howarth and Charles Wright into each other, ending Charles' season with broken wrists.

It's the scoring system which changes the natural instincts of what's important in that race. It caught Adam out last night. I have sympathy for both of them. I'm not a fan of the scoring system for that reason. Whichever way Tony Steele had gone, and it wasn't an easy call he would have upset on side or the other. I can see both sides of the argument and I think the root cause is the scoring system. 

But we hear every week about wanting to see more team riding and more track craft. The incident last night shows it's not as easy as we think

[Stiltonpanther]

Perhaps the scoring should be 5...3...2...0. This would at least make it worth winning and in the event of a final, the 5 points was greater than the 3+2.

[wealdstone]

Scrapping the whole thing  before it is too late would be my preferred option 

[lbw]

7 minutes ago, wealdstone said:

Scrapping the whole thing  before it is too late would be my preferred option 

A 6 round pairs event is surely not viable for the club's. Doesn't entice me to go.

It needs to be a one off meeting, the days of such an event bringing bigger crowds into each venue are sadly long gone.

I don't see any logic in this decision.

[False dawn]

13 minutes ago, Stiltonpanther said:

Perhaps the scoring should be 5...3...2...0. This would at least make it worth winning and in the event of a final, the 5 points was greater than the 3+2.

How is 5 greater than 3+2?

57 minutes ago, wtf said:

You are absolutely right about the crash being caused by the scoring system. This pairs scoring format introduces a race where the only thing is to not finish last. Once Holder had gone, you could see that Lawson was trying to slow the race down and had been doing so for at least a lap before, backing Ellis into pickering to hopefully secure the pass. These bikes when flat out are not easy to slow down or change line.

Richard certainly turned left on Adam. But I have some sympathy with them both, as it's not as though Adam didn't know what was happening, and could have been prepared for it. Only time recently I have seen similar was the championship Pairs 2017 at sheffield when Ben Barker tried to slow the race down backing Kyle Howarth and Charles Wright into each other, ending Charles' season with broken wrists.

It's the scoring system which changes the natural instincts of what's important in that race. It caught Adam out last night. I have sympathy for both of them. I'm not a fan of the scoring system for that reason. Whichever way Tony Steele had gone, and it wasn't an easy call he would have upset on side or the other. I can see both sides of the argument and I think the root cause is the scoring system. 

But we hear every week about wanting to see more team riding and more track craft. The incident last night shows it's not as easy as we think

I haven't seen last night's meeting, but there is a lot in what you say. "Backing up" a race has always been a tricky skill to master. I recall Ole Olsen being a past master but there are clear dangers involved.

 But I have to say that some riders are consistently not looking for their partner, be it a pairs meetings or league racing. Indeed, we've all seen so called top riders who do their partners no favours at all.

I often imagine the conversation in the pits after a team event....
Rider: "I scored a 15 point maximum, what's the problem".
Team manager: "We lost".

[Noodles]

55 minutes ago, Stiltonpanther said:

Perhaps the scoring should be 5...3...2...0. This would at least make it worth winning and in the event of a final, the 5 points was greater than the 3+2.

You may as well  just have the traditional 3/2/1/0 and if a 3-3 in the semi or final a win trumps 2nd and 3rd.

[ch958]

someone on facebook saying there was about 100 people there - surely not??

[wealdstone]

3 minutes ago, ch958 said:

someone on facebook saying there was about 100 people there - surely not??

A poor crowd but not that low.  Bosses however have got the whole thing wrong again

[Bagpuss]

1 minute ago, wealdstone said:

A poor crowd but not that low.  Bosses however have got the whole thing wrong again

You've been very negative about the concept over the last couple of days.....please elaborate if you could about what they've got wrong and how it could be improved. 

[LisaColette]

18 minutes ago, Noodles said:

You may as well  just have the traditional 3/2/1/0 and if a 3-3 in the semi or final a win trumps 2nd and 3rd.

Defeats the whole object tbh!! It's a pairs event so team riding has to be rewarded. 

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, Turnip said:

A 6 round pairs event is surely not viable for the club's. Doesn't entice me to go.

It needs to be a one off meeting, the days of such an event bringing bigger crowds into each venue are sadly long gone.

I don't see any logic in this decision.

It was to give each of the Premiership teams another meeting...

Wolves in particular were a club that felt they needed more bona fide meetings as only ten top league home meetings were not enough...

Edit. I forgot about the League Cup..

(Which probably says a lot)....

Edited May 24, 2022 by mikebv

[Daniel Smith]

People talking about the concept being wrong because of a small turn out. I'm of the opposite view. Crowd numbers at the venue are pretty much irrelevant, similarly to how greyhound racing works today. 

If there were 2500+ watching via streaming @ £13, this competition has started with flying colours. 

3/400 at the stadium, 1900 online etc, it's a success. 

No longer will promoter be to concerned by paying punters at the gate as long as there's a gradual uptick in streaming purchases 

[False dawn]

15 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

....If there were 2500+ watching via streaming @ £13, this competition has started with flying colours. .....

Big if. And will we ever know, so that we can make a judgement? Given that promoters have never published gate numbers, I doubt it.

Incidentally, 2500 paying £13 is about equivalent to 3500+ going live. Two people (or more) watching a single stream only pay once.

Edited May 24, 2022 by False dawn

[wealdstone]

40 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

You've been very negative about the concept over the last couple of days.....please elaborate if you could about what they've got wrong and how it could be improved. 

This meeting and the concept  did not and does  not appeal to me, seems  I am not the only one.Do not see the need to elaborate. I did at least go to the meeting  to show if nothing else financial support, albeit I live some miles away

[Bagpuss]

58 minutes ago, wealdstone said:

This meeting and the concept  did not and does  not appeal to me, seems  I am not the only one.Do not see the need to elaborate. I did at least go to the meeting  to show if nothing else financial support, albeit I live some miles away

If you just don't like it then fair enough, I was just interested why you thought they'd got the 'whole thing wrong' and it needed 'scrapping'. 

The reserve thing isn't good (I don't like it in the SoN either and they've just copied and pasted it from that) but the concept of a round on every track and a choice of two of the top four is good IMO. Let's see what the rest of the competition brings, looking forward to attending the Lynn round and streaming the BV one.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Bagpuss

[Trees]

3 hours ago, Turnip said:

A 6 round pairs event is surely not viable for the club's. Doesn't entice me to go.

It needs to be a one off meeting, the days of such an event bringing bigger crowds into each venue are sadly long gone.

I don't see any logic in this decision.

Whereas I am looking forward to watching them all, it's a wide open comp imo!