6 man Teams

[Najjer]

I decided to post this here because although it’s something that effects the Premiership aswell (Belle Vue) it is certainly proving to be a bigger stumbling block for the Championship sides with Birmingham, Berwick and now Plymouth.

I called for it before and am amazed that this problem wasn’t foreseen by the promoters and the rule setters in this country. It’s certainly too late to do anything about it this year and change the rules this close to the season… although stranger things have happened!

With the way of the world, flight uncertainties and rising air fares/costs, visas and just general lack of rider availability I seriously think that 6 man teams would help with this going forward - that’s without mentioning what will happen once injuries start occurring this year as there just isn’t a pool of riders to come in and replace anybody. 

This has to be something that happens for 2023.

[mikebv]

15 minutes ago, Najjer said:

I decided to post this here because although it’s something that effects the Premiership aswell (Belle Vue) it is certainly proving to be a bigger stumbling block for the Championship sides with Birmingham, Berwick and now Plymouth.

I called for it before and am amazed that this problem wasn’t foreseen by the promoters and the rule setters in this country. It’s certainly too late to do anything about it this year and change the rules this close to the season… although stranger things have happened!

With the way of the world, flight uncertainties and rising air fares/costs, visas and just general lack of rider availability I seriously think that 6 man teams would help with this going forward - that’s without mentioning what will happen once injuries start occurring this year as there just isn’t a pool of riders to come in and replace anybody. 

This has to be something that happens for 2023.

Been the obvious way forward for years...

However, as DU'ing is now so out of control (because it's the only way the two pro league system can exist), it would then mean some riders would lose a job in each league.

So won't happen...

 

[topsoil]

1 hour ago, Najjer said:

I decided to post this here because although it’s something that effects the Premiership aswell (Belle Vue) it is certainly proving to be a bigger stumbling block for the Championship sides with Birmingham, Berwick and now Plymouth.

I called for it before and am amazed that this problem wasn’t foreseen by the promoters and the rule setters in this country. It’s certainly too late to do anything about it this year and change the rules this close to the season… although stranger things have happened!

With the way of the world, flight uncertainties and rising air fares/costs, visas and just general lack of rider availability I seriously think that 6 man teams would help with this going forward - that’s without mentioning what will happen once injuries start occurring this year as there just isn’t a pool of riders to come in and replace anybody. 

This has to be something that happens for 2023.

There was never a 'problem' with Berwick. The delay was the promotion giving their preferred option all the time possible to decide whether he would ride or not. Attracting a rider was never a 'problem'.

[heathen52]

Also we are now seeing the long term effects of doubling up, which stopped the progress of numerous riders who then couldnt get a team spot so dropped out of the sport, most of the current issues within the sport have been self inflicted by the BSPL who live for the here and now but its rapidly becoming then and now, with the now becoming smaller and smaller and less and less viable.

Edited March 13, 2022 by heathen52

[Ghosty]

1 hour ago, Najjer said:

I decided to post this here because although it’s something that effects the Premiership aswell (Belle Vue) it is certainly proving to be a bigger stumbling block for the Championship sides with Birmingham, Berwick and now Plymouth.

I called for it before and am amazed that this problem wasn’t foreseen by the promoters and the rule setters in this country. It’s certainly too late to do anything about it this year and change the rules this close to the season… although stranger things have happened!

With the way of the world, flight uncertainties and rising air fares/costs, visas and just general lack of rider availability I seriously think that 6 man teams would help with this going forward - that’s without mentioning what will happen once injuries start occurring this year as there just isn’t a pool of riders to come in and replace anybody. 

This has to be something that happens for 2023.

Or you simply wait until you know:

1. How many teams in the league.

2. What riders are available.

3. Then set the points limit to suit.

[enotian]

last tried in the mid/late 90's (1997?) after the amalgamation of the Divisions 1 and 2 had failed. Only lasted one season I think in the new second division, whatever it was called. I can't remember the heat format (how many heats) and don't recall why it was abandoned. Maybe just because more riders became available rather than it being unpopular. Although I do think there were problems with flexibility especially if RR was in use. An important consideration though if the product isn't as good.

There are quite a few moving parts at the moment. I've posted previously about the evolution of streaming. If the majority of your streaming income comes from away supporters then you need to think about how you maximise that (i.e. having more than one away team) I'm thinking 4TT. That would have to be a stand alone competition a la The Hundred in cricket. 

If that extra competition provided enough fixtures it would replace the need to double up between PL and CL.  That might mean 6 man teams or perhaps the CL would become a more sustainable league using British based riders only with perhaps only British U21 riders allowed to ride in both the PL and CL to aid their progress. Maybe a few of the current more affluent CL clubs would revert to the PL and the more sustainable CL, utilising British youngsters, would enable some clubs (Mildenhall, IoW, Workington) to step up. 

[StevePark]

12 minutes ago, enotian said:

last tried in the mid/late 90's (1997?) after the amalgamation of the Divisions 1 and 2 had failed. Only lasted one season I think in the new second division, whatever it was called. I can't remember the heat format (how many heats) and don't recall why it was abandoned. Maybe just because more riders became available rather than it being unpopular. Although I do think there were problems with flexibility especially if RR was in use. An important consideration though if the product isn't as good.

There are quite a few moving parts at the moment. I've posted previously about the evolution of streaming. If the majority of your streaming income comes from away supporters then you need to think about how you maximise that (i.e. having more than one away team) I'm thinking 4TT. That would have to be a stand alone competition a la The Hundred in cricket. 

If that extra competition provided enough fixtures it would replace the need to double up between PL and CL.  That might mean 6 man teams or perhaps the CL would become a more sustainable league using British based riders only with perhaps only British U21 riders allowed to ride in both the PL and CL to aid their progress. Maybe a few of the current more affluent CL clubs would revert to the PL and the more sustainable CL, utilising British youngsters, would enable some clubs (Mildenhall, IoW, Workington) to step up. 

15 heats.

[spin king]

3 hours ago, Najjer said:

I decided to post this here because although it’s something that effects the Premiership aswell (Belle Vue) it is certainly proving to be a bigger stumbling block for the Championship sides with Birmingham, Berwick and now Plymouth.

I called for it before and am amazed that this problem wasn’t foreseen by the promoters and the rule setters in this country. It’s certainly too late to do anything about it this year and change the rules this close to the season… although stranger things have happened!

With the way of the world, flight uncertainties and rising air fares/costs, visas and just general lack of rider availability I seriously think that 6 man teams would help with this going forward - that’s without mentioning what will happen once injuries start occurring this year as there just isn’t a pool of riders to come in and replace anybody. 

This has to be something that happens for 2023.

One of the best posts I have seen in years and something that I had been thinking that Promoters would definitely consider for this season.

I was thinking along the lines of;

• 15 heats per meeting.
• 6 man teams
• Each rider programmed for 5 rides per meeting
• Each rider guaranteed 4 rides per meeting 
• Tactical subs allowed when home team is 8 points behind and away teams 6 points behind.
• Tactical Subs only allowed between heats 4 and 12.
• Last 3 heats to be nominated heats.

Some radical changes to a speedway meeting, but would make meetings more exciting and tactical, as well as addressing the problems of rider shortages.

 

[Jaizer]

1 hour ago, enotian said:

last tried in the mid/late 90's (1997?) after the amalgamation of the Divisions 1 and 2 had failed. Only lasted one season I think in the new second division, whatever it was called. I can't remember the heat format (how many heats) and don't recall why it was abandoned. Maybe just because more riders became available rather than it being unpopular. Although I do think there were problems with flexibility especially if RR was in use. An important consideration though if the product isn't as good.

There are quite a few moving parts at the moment. I've posted previously about the evolution of streaming. If the majority of your streaming income comes from away supporters then you need to think about how you maximise that (i.e. having more than one away team) I'm thinking 4TT. That would have to be a stand alone competition a la The Hundred in cricket. 

If that extra competition provided enough fixtures it would replace the need to double up between PL and CL.  That might mean 6 man teams or perhaps the CL would become a more sustainable league using British based riders only with perhaps only British U21 riders allowed to ride in both the PL and CL to aid their progress. Maybe a few of the current more affluent CL clubs would revert to the PL and the more sustainable CL, utilising British youngsters, would enable some clubs (Mildenhall, IoW, Workington) to step up. 

12 programmed heats and 3 nominated as I remember. Think one rider was nominated as a reserve could take extra rides possibly?

[Najjer]

1 hour ago, spin king said:

One of the best posts I have seen in years and something that I had been thinking that Promoters would definitely consider for this season.

I was thinking along the lines of;

• 15 heats per meeting.
• 6 man teams
• Each rider programmed for 5 rides per meeting
• Each rider guaranteed 4 rides per meeting 
• Tactical subs allowed when home team is 8 points behind and away teams 6 points behind.
• Tactical Subs only allowed between heats 4 and 12.
• Last 3 heats to be nominated heats.

Some radical changes to a speedway meeting, but would make meetings more exciting and tactical, as well as addressing the problems of rider shortages.

 

More races for each rider which means more money in their pockets too - what’s not to like? 

[Najjer]

3 hours ago, topsoil said:

There was never a 'problem' with Berwick. The delay was the promotion giving their preferred option all the time possible to decide whether he would ride or not. Attracting a rider was never a 'problem'.

That’s fair enough, but if Proctor wasn’t available and has signed for Birmingham then where were they going then? There is a huge lack of riders and when injuries start occurring then where are they coming from?

[enotian]

5 hours ago, Najjer said:

More races for each rider which means more money in their pockets too - what’s not to like? 

There's deffo advantages. One less signing on fee? One (or two?) less travelling expenses depending on who pays. One less race suit?

I think the problem's arise when RR is in operation, especially for the 4th, 5th or 6th averaged rider.  If everyone is programmed for 5 rides who covers? If the 6th rider is the nominated reserve he'd still only be able to take two more rides (7 in total which is nearly half the heats) then if the one rider above can taken a RR ride that's still only three of the 5th riders programmed rides being covered so you run the risk of three rider races. You could say everyone gets to take a RR ride but that would undoubtedly get abused. You could when RR is in operation have an unprogrammed #7 and you'd still only have six riders at the meeting but essentially you're saying that there still has to be enough riders to cover seven team places. Or it becomes a guest fest.

As I said before it might be an obvious solution but not if it compromises the product.

There'll certainly be a reason why six rider teams were abandoned and hasn't been reinstated as I'm sure the promoters would have loved cut costs. 

[topsoil]

5 hours ago, Najjer said:

That’s fair enough, but if Proctor wasn’t available and has signed for Birmingham then where were they going then? There is a huge lack of riders and when injuries start occurring then where are they coming from?

Dani Gappmaier