Should Laguta and Emil be kicked out of the GP Series?

[Humphrey Appleby]

14 hours ago, Triple.H. said:

Humphrey Appleby will be on your case. I've said more or less the same in a few posts in this topic and he's told me I'm wrong.

You are wrong to target individual Russians who are resident outside of Russia and have no connection to the Putin regime, whether it's sport or any other job they're doing. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, most have nothing to do with Putin and it's a fair bet many if not most oppose his actions.

Most of us are outraged by the actions of the Russian government, and frankly I've been outraged by its behaviour for a number of years even if there were a number of apologists for it in the West (and on here) until just over a week ago. You need to make a distinction though, between the Putin regime and the Russian people (even if many have naively support him thanks to the propaganda), and whilst sanctions do have to be put on the country and its residents, believing that exerting pressure on expat Russians will somehow enable Putin's overthrow shows a total lack of understanding of his total control of its state apparatus.

It's all too easy to get out the torches and pitchforks against anyone or anything Russian, but history (including two World Wars) has shown it's counterproductive to automatically assume 'enemy aliens' will take the side with their parent country. People often leave their countries because of some dissatisfaction or disagreement with political and/or economic conditions there, and Russians are really no different. This quite aside from the fact that by penalising totally innocent expats, you are far more likely to alienate them against your cause and reinforce Putin's rhetoric that Russians are victimised by the rest of the world.

Or put another way, much of the world including most countries in Europe opposed the invasion of Iraq which the UK participated in. I don't recall any British sportspeople being banned from anything, and would you have considered it reasonable and proportionate for British expats to be expelled from all the countries they were living and working in?

Edited March 4, 2022 by Humphrey Appleby

[Grachan]

15 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

Not good enough i'm afraid 

In what way do you not think it is good enough?

Surely if they renounce their Russian citizenship and become solely Polish then that should show enough willing and enable them to be a speedway rider.

 

[IainB]

1 hour ago, Grachan said:

In what way do you not think it is good enough?

Surely if they renounce their Russian citizenship and become solely Polish then that should show enough willing and enable them to be a speedway rider.

 

Emil "follows" the President of Russia on twitter... hardly a denouncement

[Grachan]

41 minutes ago, iainb said:

Emil "follows" the President of Russia on twitter... hardly a denouncement

I follow Piers Morgan. It means nothing.

Why would you have a problem with him if he is solely Polish? If he is no longer Russian and entirely based in Poland I think we should give the guy a break.

EDIT - It looks like his Twitter account has now been removed - assuming EmilSaytudinov89 was the real Emil.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Grachan

[Star Lady]

1 hour ago, Grachan said:

In what way do you not think it is good enough?

Surely if they renounce their Russian citizenship and become solely Polish then that should show enough willing and enable them to be a speedway rider.

 

Should any of them actually do that it’s a different kettle of halibut, 

Up to now I haven’t seen or heard anything that suggests any have.  

[Grachan]

2 minutes ago, Star Lady said:

Should any of them actually do that it’s a different kettle of halibut, 

Up to now I haven’t seen or heard anything that suggests any have.  

Me neither, but that was the conditions that were given to allow them to ride in the Polish league and I was replying to a comment that said that it wasn't good enough.

[IainB]

10 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I follow Piers Morgan. It means nothing.

Why would you have a problem with him if he is solely Polish? If he is no longer Russian and entirely based in Poland I think we should give the guy a break.

EDIT - It looks like his Twitter account has now been removed - assuming EmilSaytudinov89 was the real Emil.

Piers Morgan isn't shelling nuclear power stations though. 

I'm not disagreeing with you... it's a complete no win situation for everybody

[GiveusaB]

In answer to the Topic Title...my opinion is NO!

 

[Daniel Smith]

3 hours ago, Grachan said:

In what way do you not think it is good enough?

Surely if they renounce their Russian citizenship and become solely Polish then that should show enough willing and enable them to be a speedway rider.

 

Simply because they're Russian. Some will see it unjust but all Russian athletes should not be allowed to compete internationally. 

Many other sports are sanctioning Russian athlete's, why on earth should Speedway be different?? 

Ukrainian's are being illegally killed by a Russian invasion. If Russian people really didn't agree with the war here's something to think about, their armed forces can refuse to drop bombs, fire rockets, shoot their guns but no, they continue at great speed. 

Sanctions have to be implemented & being Russian is just that imo, regardless of who they are.

 

[Grachan]

4 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

Simply because they're Russian. Some will see it unjust but all Russian athletes should not be allowed to compete internationally. 

Many other sports are sanctioning Russian athlete's, why on earth should Speedway be different?? 

Ukrainian's are being illegally killed by a Russian invasion. If Russian people really didn't agree with the war here's something to think about, their armed forces can refuse to drop bombs, fire rockets, shoot their guns but no, they continue at great speed. 

Sanctions have to be implemented & being Russian is just that imo, regardless of who they are.

 

If they give up their Russian citizenship then they won't be Russian any more.

Should people really have no right to forsake their Russian citizenship and move on with their lives if they get the chance to do it? It is not Sayfutdinov and Laguta's fault that the war is going on.

Normal people deserve a chance. If they choose not to give up their Russian citizenship then, fair enough, stop them riding.

But they have killed nobody. They are just people who happened to be born where they were. Nobody can do anything about that part of themselves.

 

[OveFundinFan]

28 minutes ago, Grachan said:

If they give up their Russian citizenship then they won't be Russian any more.

Should people really have no right to forsake their Russian citizenship and move on with their lives if they get the chance to do it? It is not Sayfutdinov and Laguta's fault that the war is going on.

Normal people deserve a chance. If they choose not to give up their Russian citizenship then, fair enough, stop them riding.

But they have killed nobody. They are just people who happened to be born where they were. Nobody can do anything about that part of themselves.

 

What about the rights of those that happen to be born in Ukraine. As individuals they not the fault of a war starting but under false reasons they are under attack. Because so many individuals citizens have already been killed, does that mean they are all Nazis and responsible for ethnic cleansing, because that is what Russia claims to be a main reason for entering the country on “manoeuvres”. Businesses are cutting ties with Russia, even UK stores are refusing to sell Russian Vodka, football clubs are cutting out the Russian oligarchs meaning they losing their income, F1 has not only cancelled this years race in Sochi (where one of Putins palaces is) but they have cancelled the contract to stage any F1 races in the future. World class athletes from Ukraine are returning to Ukraine to fight for their fellowman's freedom. On BSF there are those who think the speedway world should just carry on. What we don’t know is the feeling of fellow riders, what stance do they take, is there a chance that the conflict will be carried over to the track? Certainly in the Polish league there could be rider problems as there are riders from Ukraine, Latvia, Slovakia, Czech Republic, the eastern part of Germany, Finland, Sweden, probably more, who well remember how Russia has treated their countries.

[Daniel Smith]

52 minutes ago, Grachan said:

If they give up their Russian citizenship then they won't be Russian any more.

Should people really have no right to forsake their Russian citizenship and move on with their lives if they get the chance to do it? It is not Sayfutdinov and Laguta's fault that the war is going on.

Normal people deserve a chance. If they choose not to give up their Russian citizenship then, fair enough, stop them riding.

But they have killed nobody. They are just people who happened to be born where they were. Nobody can do anything about that part of themselves.

 

Oh my days, the absolute stupidity of some people is amazing 

[Technik]

I don't honestly think anyone is blaming the two riders for the events in Ukraine. I believe that the two are held as the standard bearers for Russian speedway. Last season the finished first & third in the SGP but only as representitives of MFR not their nation of birth as the IOC have declared Russia is not to be represented.

Whilst this is headlined " Sayfutinov & Laguta " it is more than that it will concern any Russian that would compete in the SGP qualification rounds all the way to the GP challange at Glasgow or the U21 riders & any of the SEC events. We need to look beyond these two.

I understand the FIM are having a meeting regarding the Ice Racers which we all know to be dominated by the Russians & after this we may know a lot more 

[iris123]

I would say the photo that one Polish guy put on FB of Emil with the Night Wolves leader the Surgeon probably does need explaining, as it could well be used against him. Not saying it is anything more than an innocent pic. But he must have known who the guy is, as his face was all over the press a few years ago, and probably more so in Russia. And of course the Night Wolves have been involved in fighting in Donbas over the past years......then again, what is he going to say other than he wanted a photo and i stood next to him for a second like i do with everyone....and maybe that is the truth

Edited March 4, 2022 by iris123

[Steve Shovlar]

Most of the Russian army soldiers won’t kill anyone either. Should they be allowed to take part in individual sporting events if good enough? 

The paraolympians have just been banned. I would say all are completely innocent. But bans mean EVERYONE. If those banned are unhappy, then they know what the cause is and if enough of them get together, say several million, then Putins tenure at dictator will be at risk.

Alternatively, find out where Putin will be in future months, and go and shoot him dead. Might end up caught and sentenced to death but the world will cheer you and you will go down in the history books as a hero for democracy.

[The White Knight]

3 hours ago, Grachan said:

If they give up their Russian citizenship then they won't be Russian any more.

Should people really have no right to forsake their Russian citizenship and move on with their lives if they get the chance to do it? It is not Sayfutdinov and Laguta's fault that the war is going on.

Normal people deserve a chance. If they choose not to give up their Russian citizenship then, fair enough, stop them riding.

But they have killed nobody. They are just people who happened to be born where they were. Nobody can do anything about that part of themselves.

 

Have Sayfutdinov or Laguta indicated that they are going to change their citizenship?

2 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

What about the rights of those that happen to be born in Ukraine. As individuals they not the fault of a war starting but under false reasons they are under attack. Because so many individuals citizens have already been killed, does that mean they are all Nazis and responsible for ethnic cleansing, because that is what Russia claims to be a main reason for entering the country on “manoeuvres”. Businesses are cutting ties with Russia, even UK stores are refusing to sell Russian Vodka, football clubs are cutting out the Russian oligarchs meaning they losing their income, F1 has not only cancelled this years race in Sochi (where one of Putins palaces is) but they have cancelled the contract to stage any F1 races in the future. World class athletes from Ukraine are returning to Ukraine to fight for their fellowman's freedom. On BSF there are those who think the speedway world should just carry on. What we don’t know is the feeling of fellow riders, what stance do they take, is there a chance that the conflict will be carried over to the track? Certainly in the Polish league there could be rider problems as there are riders from Ukraine, Latvia, Slovakia, Czech Republic, the eastern part of Germany, Finland, Sweden, probably more, who well remember how Russia has treated their countries.

Very good post OveFundin. I agree 100%.

1 hour ago, iris123 said:

I would say the photo that one Polish guy put on FB of Emil with the Night Wolves leader the Surgeon probably does need explaining, as it could well be used against him. Not saying it is anything more than an innocent pic. But he must have known who the guy is, as his face was all over the press a few years ago, and probably more so in Russia. And of course the Night Wolves have been involved in fighting in Donbas over the past years......then again, what is he going to say other than he wanted a photo and i stood next to him for a second like i do with everyone....and maybe that is the truth

If he wanted a photograph with this guy - that says it all for me. 

If there is a ban on poor disabled athletes in the Winter Olympics, and in most other Sports - Sayfutdinov and Laguta MUST be banned. Speedway is an Interrnational Sport and MUST join the sporting community in it's decisions, anything else would be unconsionable.

Edited March 4, 2022 by The White Knight
Forgot to add reply to a post.

[Grachan]

25 minutes ago, The White Knight said:

Have Sayfutdinov or Laguta indicated that they are going to change their citizenship?

 

Not that I'm aware of. Those are the conditions stated by the Polish league. If Russian riders with Polish citizenship wish to ride in the league then they have to renounce their Russian citizenship.

[topaz325]

Some bans started in polish league

[enotian]

Some good opinions and counter opinions presented here which is what the forum is all about.

If you consider a sporting event to be a party for people to enjoy then why wouldn't the organiser decide what sort of people to invite to the party? If you held a party at home you wouldn't invite someone who is undesirable and/or would make the other guests uncomfortable because of their view or actions.

And it's about time we decide globally who to invite to our parties.  Whilst that'll lead to the innocent competitors being excluded the message has to be clear, you're country isn't welcome. And pretending to not be from that country just weakens the message.  You're effectively saying nobody wants you at the party but come in a disguise and don't mention  the war and you'll be alright.

If that message is clear then it's down to the residents of that country if they want to try and invoke change of regime/beliefs.

The issue is wider than the invasion of Ukraine isn't it.  If we're serious about having a world which is environmentally sustainable, where people of all race, gender and sexuality are treated equally why wouldn't we exclude all those countries who don't support by their actions those views.

Look at the Premier League there's various well meant shows of support for anti racism and anti homophobia yet some of the clubs are owned by regimes which have dubious beliefs on these subjects.  Can you take any of those messages seriously? It's tokenism.  It's like saying we don't want racists at our party, by the way Tommy Robinson paid for the buffet. 

The message has to be clear. 

[topaz325]

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