Grachan Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 10 hours ago, OveFundinFan said: Your still missing what is going on. Not sure what you are saying here. Surely, if Poland ban him, they are merely supporting a ban that Russia has already apparently imposed on him for being against the war so how dos that send a message to Russia. Or is it possible that Laguta has already decided to revoke his Russian citizenship to ride in Poland so the Russians are pre-empting that? If Laguta then rides in Poland they can say that, as he has gone against their ban by riding in a foreign league, they are expelling him from Russian and revoking his citizenship. The reigning World Champion's career could be over here. If we can we should let the guy ride. Banning him now shows support for Russia's actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 If the Russians have banned him, then he should apply for Polish citizenship, as the Russians will stop him riding from herein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said: If the Russians have banned him, then he should apply for Polish citizenship, as the Russians will stop him riding from herein. I think he already has it. If I search it, I get a Speedway GP "test" page which states: "Artem Laguta’s manager Rafal Lewicki admits becoming a Polish citizen should make speedway life easier for the Russian racer. Rider No.222 recently became a duel national alongside fellow Monster Energy FIM Speedway of Nations winner Gleb Chugunov, with the Wroclaw rider stating..." If I click on the link, however, the page itself does not load. On Google, for Artem Laguta nationality, it says both Polish and Russian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 41 minutes ago, Grachan said: I think he already has it. If I search it, I get a Speedway GP "test" page which states: "Artem Laguta’s manager Rafal Lewicki admits becoming a Polish citizen should make speedway life easier for the Russian racer. Rider No.222 recently became a duel national alongside fellow Monster Energy FIM Speedway of Nations winner Gleb Chugunov, with the Wroclaw rider stating..." If I click on the link, however, the page itself does not load. On Google, for Artem Laguta nationality, it says both Polish and Russian. Artem was born in Russia, therefore he's Russian by birth and that's the unfortunate part of it. The Polish citizenship is purely to make his speedway life easier (as stated above). Has Emil also been banned from riding in Poland and Sweden etc.? No mention of him being banned to the extent Artem has as of yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesHarris Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 Do any other riders have Russian ancestry? Russian spouses? Russian equipment? Drink Russian standard Vodka? Have they ever flown on a Russian airline or visited a Russian city? Have they ever had conversation with a Russian citizen? If any of the above apply then they are guilty of association and must be banned from all competitions with immediate effect!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Grachan said: Or is it possible that Laguta has already decided to revoke his Russian citizenship to ride in Poland so the Russians are pre-empting that? If Laguta then rides in Poland they can say that, as he has gone against their ban by riding in a foreign league, they are expelling him from Russian and revoking his citizenship. The Russian constitution prohibits the revocation of Russian citizenship from anyone born in Russia, assuming that some lip service is still paid to the legalities there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 23 minutes ago, chris4gillian said: Artem was born in Russia, therefore he's Russian by birth and that's the unfortunate part of it. The Polish citizenship is purely to make his speedway life easier (as stated above). Has Emil also been banned from riding in Poland and Sweden etc.? No mention of him being banned to the extent Artem has as of yet. If he has Polish citizenship then he is Polish regardless of why he decided to have it. By banning him now they will effectively be ending his Speedway career because he said something against Vladamir Putin's invasion of Ukraine. So who is that pandering to? As I said before, this could be that the Russian authorities put out a statement like that because he has revoked his Russian citizenship. I guess we'll have to wait and see with that. If he has, though, I hope he is allowed to rise in the GP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 Just now, Humphrey Appleby said: The Russian constitution prohibits the revocation of Russian citizenship from anyone born in Russia, assuming that some lip service is still paid to the legalities there. Ah, ok. That complicates things a little then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 Call him up for the Polish army, they may need new recruits shortly, that will test where his heart lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 hours ago, JamesHarris said: Do any other riders have Russian ancestry? Russian spouses? Russian equipment? Drink Russian standard Vodka? Have they ever flown on a Russian airline or visited a Russian city? Have they ever had conversation with a Russian citizen? If any of the above apply then they are guilty of association and must be banned from all competitions with immediate effect!!! Aleksandr Loktaev would be the obvious case to consider. Russian born but transferred his allegiance to Ukraine. (he made 1 GP appearance last year) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technik Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 My research shows that both riders represented the Russian federation (MFR) in last seasons FIM events & were on the SGP site as MFR again for this season. This would indicate that they are Russian & hold a Russian approved FIM licence & therefore would require permission from MFR to race in another countries territory & as the FIM currently doe's not recognise the MFR who would the PZM apply to. As was established earlier this week by Roy Humphrey (ACU President) when he announced that all Russians would be barred from any activity in all disciplines of motorcycle sport on ACU territory it may not be the individuals fault the this invasion is happening but it is not ours either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 Strange how the people up in arms about the Russians getting banned , have actually said nothing about the Russians banning the Russians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 It has gone a bit quite about Emil, how does he stand in comparison to Artem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 Internal Russian dissent is exactly the desired outcome of the international ban. First off I feel terribly sorry for the individuals and it would be much better if Artem and Emil were in the SGP. But this situation is much bigger than that and a stance had to be taken. Let's face it I doubt Artem would have earned a living from riding in Russia anyway, there doesn't seem to be many fixtures. Happy to concede this point as I've not researched it. To illustrate the point, if you imagine that Speedway was the biggest sport in Russia and Artem the most famous sportsperson. Firstly the international ban would have robbed the Russian public with the opportunity to see their favourite defend his title which would have been a disappointment and provoked some thought as to the reason for the ban. The Russian public might view if as unjust by the west and continue to support their regime. Then their own authorities also ban him robbing them of seeing him ride in their own country. Now you're asking questions again. Still the public might turn against Artem for his anti-Russian sentiment. At which point the international ban has been pointless. However, if the combination of denying participation in global events, withdrawal of global brand products and economic hardship result in dissention within the populace then there is a chance this invasion could end. There's bound to be some other mad man despot polishing his ice pick just waiting for the chink in Putin's armour. And pulling out of Ukraine might just be the way of getting the gig, Huzzaah!! One for fans of "The Great" there. I know speedway isn't and this particular ban is ineffectual in reality but you can't go half arsed in these circumstances. There has to be a united message. The question of nationality is tricky. Particularly as the World becomes a smaller place. Is it where you were physically born, or where you grew up, or where your parents are from, or where you contribute economically/hold a passport? Just reading about Palace's Michael Olise who is English, French, Algerian and Nigerian at the same time. In the case of the sporting ban the only criteria that can be applied is the nation the individual represents. Unfortunately for Artem and Emil that is Russia. You can argue all you like about them being Polish citizens or whatever but in a sporting sense they represent Russia and you can try to say they could represent Poland or not represent any country but it's a flimsy smokescreen which only serves to weaken the message. Whilst this might mean the end of Laguta's speedway career, compared to the end of innocent Ukrainian and Russian lives, it's insignificant. It's an impossible situation but a stance has to be taken to demonstrate to the Russian people that the actions of the regime that governs them are immoral and not acceptable. You can't do that if you're making exceptions and concessions because it's a bit unfair on some individuals who we generally like because they entertain us. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 22 hours ago, Grachan said: If he has Polish citizenship then he is Polish regardless of why he decided to have it. By banning him now they will effectively be ending his Speedway career because he said something against Vladamir Putin's invasion of Ukraine. So who is that pandering to? As I said before, this could be that the Russian authorities put out a statement like that because he has revoked his Russian citizenship. I guess we'll have to wait and see with that. If he has, though, I hope he is allowed to rise in the GP. He was born in Russia and that makes him Russian You cannot change your home of origin/birth just by becoming a citizen of another country. The whole situation is hugely unfair on Artem and all the other Russian athletes and sports people, but the world has to be in unison on this issue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, chris4gillian said: He was born in Russia and that makes him Russian You cannot change your home of origin/birth just by becoming a citizen of another country. The whole situation is hugely unfair on Artem and all the other Russian athletes and sports people, but the world has to be in unison on this issue. It makes no sense to me. Why ban a rider who the Russians have banned for speaking out against Vladimir Putin? How does that send any form of message to the Russian authorities? It is effectively supporting the moves made by Russia. I don't get it. How does this encourage Russian people to speak out against the war? If anything it will make them less likely to. Edited March 11, 2022 by Grachan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, chris4gillian said: He was born in Russia and that makes him Russian You cannot change your home of origin/birth just by becoming a citizen of another country. Boris Johnson was born in New York. Do you consider him to be American? Ben Stokes was born in New Zealand but plays for the England cricket team. Edited March 11, 2022 by Humphrey Appleby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 43 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said: Boris Johnson was born in New York. Do you consider him to be American? Ben Stokes was born in New Zealand but plays for the England cricket team. Boris Johnson's parents are British......and Artem's parents are Russian. Get the jist? Oh and here's a snippet from Artem's Wikipedia page with the important bit in bold; "In April 2020, he obtained a dual national speedway licence after obtaining a Polish licence, although he will continue to represent Russia." Artem is unfortunately as Russian as one can be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, chris4gillian said: Boris Johnson's parents are British......and Artem's parents are Russian. Get the jist? Oh and here's a snippet from Artem's Wikipedia page with the important bit in bold; "In April 2020, he obtained a dual national speedway licence after obtaining a Polish licence, although he will continue to represent Russia." Artem is unfortunately as Russian as one can be. Did you not originally say it was about where people were born? So what if Artem continued to represent Russia. They hadn't invaded the Ukraine then. He's not representing them any more because they have banned him for speaking out. Surely the purpose of sanctioning Russian people was to get them to turn against Putin wasn't it? So what purpose does the West banning those that have done so and subsequently been banned in Russia? Surely they should be supported so that people are encouraged to do the same. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severnsider Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 Jack Holder and Dan Bewley confirmed as replacing Artem & Emil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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