idiot Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 Having my letter back from Brummies share offer. It clearly has speedway written all over it . It seems that they didn't do their homework on this ,i beg to differ. Looks like another scam ,little bit like the "go fund me" they did at start of last season ,when very little was spent on equipment. No share offer just pledge your money and be a friend of Birmingham speedway . They got me in on false pretences. Being a share holder would have allowed us to see the books ,that's something only privileged for bspl people. Also many speedway clubs have never shown a profit ,so whats the chance of getting a dividend paid out to ones self . They say compaines house wont allow them to set up this type of share offer .... Maybe they had put in the memorandum and articles of Association, something like we don't want share holders to be able to see the full accounts,or was it BSPL blocking this share offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sings4Speedway Posted December 24, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 14 minutes ago, idiot said: Having my letter back from Brummies share offer. It clearly has speedway written all over it . It seems that they didn't do their homework on this ,i beg to differ. Looks like another scam ,little bit like the "go fund me" they did at start of last season ,when very little was spent on equipment. No share offer just pledge your money and be a friend of Birmingham speedway . They got me in on false pretences. Being a share holder would have allowed us to see the books ,that's something only privileged for bspl people. Also many speedway clubs have never shown a profit ,so whats the chance of getting a dividend paid out to ones self . They say compaines house wont allow them to set up this type of share offer .... Maybe they had put in the memorandum and articles of Association, something like we don't want share holders to be able to see the full accounts,or was it BSPL blocking this share offer. can't find the form to hand now but i think your user name is pretty accurate. The form clearly stated that it was just "fun shares" and effectively just a way of raising funds for the club, the "shareholders" were never entitled to any voting rights, details of accounts, to have the shares brought back or dividends paid out. Put simply its a nice way for people to offer a little sponsorship into the club, get their name in the program and receive a certificate for their contribution. On a personal note i think the £100 minimum was a bit steep and stopped any further interest but for several who want to do their bit its a nice enough idea (providing the money gets spent correctly etc). Anyone who thought that for £100 they would be entitled to see full company accounts, have a say on how the club is run and potentially receive dividends should really be supervised when using computers and mobile devices and have the child locks firmly turned on. 2 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiot Posted December 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 id put the letter on here but the file is to big ,this is what the letter has to say . Firstly,can i thank you on behalf of the directors of Birmingham speedway 2022 Limited for expressing an interest in becoming a shareholder and for support for the cluband us as new promotors. this is a very steep learning curve for us ,and we are under no illusions as to the task ahead if we are to try to make the club sustainable for the future. Unfortunately ,as part of this learning curve ,it appears that we were not well advised on setting up the company and the offer of shares.We have said all along thats it was our intention to be honest with our supporters and ,after a query was raised ,we spoke to a Company Law expert who advised that ,legally, it is an offence to advertise share in a private limited company (which is how Birmingham speedway 2022 has been set up )for sale .If we went ahead we could finds ourselves forced into being wound up in to a public limited company ,which is not an appropriate path for us to go down.We are bitterly dissappointed by this as we very much wanted our supporters to be able to own a small part of the club,but we need to do everything above board and it is not worth jeapordising the safety of the club to go down this path . Having said all that, your financial contribution is vitally important to us and we hope that you are still willing to be a stakeholder but as a "friend of Birmingham speedway" rather than a nominal shareholder.Anoffical list of stakeholders will be kept, acknowledgement made of your support in the programme(unless you would prefer to remain anonymous) and all theother benefits offered with the shareholding will remain the same including a family ticket to pass on to a new group of people (including pits visits and meet the riders ),a weekly draw to watch races from centre green ,discounted End of season Presentation Nights tickets and invitation to meeting at end of season to discuss how things have gone . Well thats the letter from the share offer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noaksey Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 They have clearly jumped the gun with the initial announcement before getting proper advice. The stakeholders idea is fine although perhaps a supporters trust with some restrictions on how the money can be spent would be the way forward 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen52 Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, noaksey said: They have clearly jumped the gun with the initial announcement before getting proper advice. The stakeholders idea is fine although perhaps a supporters trust with some restrictions on how the money can be spent would be the way forward I thought a Supporters Trust was the way they were going ?, for sure as a supporters Trust you can hold shares. Edited December 24, 2021 by heathen52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 (edited) 59 minutes ago, heathen52 said: I thought a Supporters Trust was the way they were going ?, for sure as a supporters Trust you can hold shares. You cant have a Trust for motor sport it's not allowed so you would have to call it something else or explain exactly what you are doing in your articles... Trust status gets you various Tax breaks however you cant use this Trust Status in England and Wales for motor sport... the "fun shares" or "stakeholder" status are good ideas as long as the articles that go with the title explain exactly what your rights are... You can also hold B C or D rated shares as part of a sharehold scheme that don't have to pay a dividend and can in the articles state you don't have voting rights either but things can get complicated so its definitely preferable to stick on the fun side of things... Regards THJ Edited December 24, 2021 by TotallyHonestJohn Missed oit word 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotteringAround Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 16 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: You cant have a Trust for motor sport Of course you can. All kinds of sports clubs have always had supporters' clubs/supporters trusts. They're just a democratic not-for-profit organisation of fans. Think what you're confused with is charitable trusts. You can't get charity status for something encouraging participation in a dangerous sport. To get charity status for a sporting organisation it has to show it is promoting positive health benefits and not risks to health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, PotteringAround said: Of course you can. All kinds of sports clubs have always had supporters' clubs/supporters trusts. They're just a democratic not-for-profit organisation of fans. Think what you're confused with is charitable trusts. You can't get charity status for something encouraging participation in a dangerous sport. To get charity status for a sporting organisation it has to show it is promoting positive health benefits and not risks to health. Honestly No you can't for Speedway and if I could be ars3d to go through it I would explain fully but I can't so believe what you want however we have been fully down this road with the Friends of Workington Speedway that was gonna be a Trust but ended up as a Supporters Club basically but the FOWS pumped thousands into Worky Speedway and became their largest sponsor after the promotion itself and the proposed Newcastle Supporters Trust that will probably end up a Newcasle Supporters Club but with a beefed up set of articles of association to make sure it's run a bit more proffesionally... When you get bored over Christmas do your homework... you can't have a Trust inputting into a Speedway Team... and yes the confusion is in the name that's why you should stay away from it... the next one will be let's start a Debenture and that is another one that confuses the B'Jesus out of folk... Regards THJ Edited December 24, 2021 by TotallyHonestJohn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post brianbuck Posted December 24, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 Personally, I don't see a great difference in being a shareholder to being a stakeholder, so it will make no difference to my wish to be a contributer. I've no desire to see details of accounts or look for, or expect any kind of dividend, so if others think they should, and prefer to opt out, then that is their perogative - and everyone should bear in mind the fact that Birmingham Speedway have not yet asked anyone to send them any money - so no one has been "conned." Whilst we are all entitled to our opinions, in my view, the title of this topic is in itself offensive and should be changed. 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 23 minutes ago, brianbuck said: Personally, I don't see a great difference in being a shareholder to being a stakeholder, so it will make no difference to my wish to be a contributer. I've no desire to see details of accounts or look for, or expect any kind of dividend, so if others think they should, and prefer to opt out, then that is their perogative - and everyone should bear in mind the fact that Birmingham Speedway have not yet asked anyone to send them any money - so no one has been "conned." Whilst we are all entitled to our opinions, in my view, the title of this topic is in itself offensive and should be changed. As always Brian you are the voice of commonsense and reason. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen52 Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 1 hour ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Honestly No you can't for Speedway and if I could be ars3d to go through it I would explain fully but I can't so believe what you want however we have been fully down this road with the Friends of Workington Speedway that was gonna be a Trust but ended up as a Supporters Club basically but the FOWS pumped thousands into Worky Speedway and became their largest sponsor after the promotion itself and the proposed Newcastle Supporters Trust that will probably end up a Newcasle Supporters Club but with a beefed up set of articles of association to make sure it's run a bit more proffesionally... When you get bored over Christmas do your homework... you can't have a Trust inputting into a Speedway Team... and yes the confusion is in the name that's why you should stay away from it... the next one will be let's start a Debenture and that is another one that confuses the B'Jesus out of folk... Regards THJ Im surprised by what you have said as you are usually right, however down here we have the "Heathens Speedway Supporters Trust" who have been in existence for a number of years now, and while they are not set up to promote/run a Speedway Team they are there 100% to support any promotion that runs Speedway for the Heathens and have funds available as when and if ever a suitable piece of land is ever found, I know this for sure as I am a previous Vice Chairman which is why im surprised by your comments. Stay safe have a Merry Christmas and goodluck with whatever project you support for 2022, Im guessing its Northside . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotteringAround Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, heathen52 said: however down here we have the "Heathens Speedway Supporters Trust" who have been in existence for a number of years now, and while they are not set up to promote/run a Speedway Team they are there 100% to support any promotion that runs Speedway for the Heathens and have funds available as when and if ever a suitable piece of land is ever found, I know this for sure as I am a previous Vice Chairman which is why im surprised by your comments. Exactly. As I said, I would guess the confusion is with a "Charitable trust". A trust promoting motorsport (like the Heathens Speedway Supporters Trust) could never have charity status, since the Charity Commission stipulate that a charity encouraging involvement in sport has to show it is promoting health benefits. Edited December 24, 2021 by PotteringAround 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 1 hour ago, heathen52 said: Im surprised by what you have said as you are usually right, however down here we have the "Heathens Speedway Supporters Trust" who have been in existence for a number of years now, and while they are not set up to promote/run a Speedway Team they are there 100% to support any promotion that runs Speedway for the Heathens and have funds available as when and if ever a suitable piece of land is ever found, I know this for sure as I am a previous Vice Chairman which is why im surprised by your comments. Stay safe have a Merry Christmas and goodluck with whatever project you support for 2022, Im guessing its Northside . You now have to be very careful what you call things and it might be called a Trust however as @PotteringAround has correctly pointed out regards Charitable Status... what you don't have is a Trust in the legal sense of the word and if someone wanted to be really pedantic (Is there anyone out there in the Speedway world like that?) you could face a challenge... so you may call it a Trust however it isn't as it is a Trust in name only... its a minefield I have trudged through on many occasion and most recently in September this year and we were advisef that we should not even call it a Trust... look as I originally posted its complicated and comes with so much red tape its not worth calling a Supporters Club a Trust... which is basically what you have described.... Although I will give you this there is something comforting in calling it a Trust and it does sound more professional however I would strongly recommend getting the Clubs (your Trust) articles notarized as we now live in a very litigious society... 48 minutes ago, PotteringAround said: Exactly. As I said, I would guess the confusion is with a "Charitable trust". A trust promoting motorsport (like the Heathens Speedway Supporters Trust) could never have charity status, since the Charity Commission stipulate that a charity encouraging involvement in sport has to show it is promoting health benefits. Correct and I have been led to believe you shouldn't even be using the word trust as the "Speedway" supporters club can't be one (a Trust) in the sphere in where it is being used... misrepresentation I believe... however if it is not being used for fraudulent purposes I personally can't see what the problem is... but I'm not a lawyer... Although I am a member of a sporting trust for a local junior football team that has charitable status and is a Registered Trust. Regards THJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiffanyS Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 Hi all, As the daughter of one of the directors, I am responding on behalf of the consortium at Birmingham Speedway with their approval and support. First of all, a mistake was made; solicitors were consulted before the offer to buy shares was made. However, it was upon speaking to a different solicitor that we were made aware of potential issues to do with advertising shares. At this point, we took the decision to be honest and share this information with our supporters and potential investors. At the end of the day, we are a group of speedway enthusiasts who have invested a substantial amount of money with the sole intention of saving a club that we cherish; all that we can do in light of this error is offer our sincerest apologies and act to rectify the situation. Regarding the GoFundMe of the previous season, I would like to remind readers that there is zero association between the consortium and the previous owners of the club - at that point, we too were fans pledging our money to support Birmingham Speedway. It was made clear from the very beginning that there would never be any form of dividend from the shares as the club is being run as a non-profit organisation. We cannot commit to publishing the books but it is our intention to be as transparent as possible about the club’s finances and to keep stakeholders informed as to how their investment has been spent. As it stands, no funds have been requested or transferred and nobody is under any obligation to do so. Thank you for the ongoing support that many of you are offering, be it financial or otherwise. We will continue to do everything in our power to secure the future of our beloved club. Have a lovely Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen52 Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 THJ The HSST were set up from the old Cradley Heathens supporters club, and were advised and guided by Supporters Direct then when HSST was formed we became a member of SD until the end of 2018 when SD merged https://www.thenews.coop/130902/sector/mutuals/supporters-direct-merge-football-supporters-federation/ with the FSF, and became more or less a Football focused organisation, HSST then continued on without being members of any organisation so maybe they now need to update who they are namewise and go back to being a Supporters Club which in essence is what they have always been but the thinking back in the day was that being a member of SD would bring them added benefits though Iv always wondered what they were.. Incidentally when I was a board member and HSST were members of SD we always had to submit our accounts to the FCA Iv no idea wether or not this is still the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 1 hour ago, heathen52 said: HSST were set up from the old Cradley Heathens supporters club, If a Dog is born in a stable you don't call it a horse do you... The reformed supporters club isn't a Trust it's as simple as that... legally under the definition of a Trust it just doesnt meet the criteria it can't... However I accept the premise that you have an entity called a Trust... Merry Christmas Regards THJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotteringAround Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 For god's sake no one tell him what Martin Brundle is up to in F1..... https://www.grandprixtrust.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted December 25, 2021 Report Share Posted December 25, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, PotteringAround said: For god's sake no one tell him what Martin Brundle is up to in F1..... https://www.grandprixtrust.com/ Oh dear... okay a give in... Like a said in my first post it's complicated... if I could be ars3d I could stick the government links up showing you why you can't do what was proposed earlier... but at the end of the day In not that bothered and what's in a name... whatever is done to support your team it just needs to be done right and proper... Now after a near 4 hour stint wrapping presents I'm going to have a couple of large whiskies and chill till the Turkey is ready to go in... All the best... Regards THJ PS Now that the bird is in the oven and I am off to kip what I would like to add is this... I fully agree with the comments made by @Brian Buck and especially where he pointed out that "the title of this topic is in itself offensive and should be changed". as it does Brum and their new promotion no favours whatsoever... just my opinion however good luck to Brum their fans and promotion for next season and the New Year... if the heading doesn't get changed to something more sensible it's probably best if this post is just left to fade away... Edited December 25, 2021 by TotallyHonestJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*JJ Posted December 25, 2021 Report Share Posted December 25, 2021 The originator of this thread is well named ... why do people have to be so miserable? Unless he is deliberately trolling, which is quite likely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbuck Posted December 25, 2021 Report Share Posted December 25, 2021 The title of this topic is NOT an opinion -it is an accusation that Birmingham Speedway are using deceitful methods to extract money from supporters. At best it is a slight on a group of people who have worked hard to keep the club afloat and at worst it is a slanderous comment. Everyone who has agreed to contribute to Birmingham's scheme, be it called a shareholding, a stakeholding or whatever, is well aware of the terms of acceptance - as indeed have been the people (including myself) who have contributed to Cradley Heath's admirable Supporters' Trust ( even if technically it perhaps shouldn't be thus described). Freedom of expression and personal opinions are one thing, but to be deliberately and sneeringly offensive is not acceptable - and the title of this topic is just that - and should be removed. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts