Why is Speedway so far behind Formula 1?

[FAST GATER]

3 hours ago, chunky said:

The problem is that speedway fans EXPECT everyone to love it the same way we do - yet they constantly come on here posting how crappy it is!

Speedway is my favourite sport. It always has been, and while it is very different to the sport I grew up with, it still is my favourite sport. I am not like most speedway fans though; I don't come on here bitching about others who like F1, football, tennis etc. I like F1, and I like football, but like speedway, they are very different sports to the ones I watched as a kid. That doesn't make them boring, and it certainly doesn't make me an idiot for liking them. Look at most of the speedway meetings we watch, and we think to ourselves (and often post it on the BSF), "What a load of crap"!

I showed a friend of mine Chris' Harris' winning ride at Cardiff - and he just turned round to me, and said, "Is that supposed to be exciting"? Does that make him stupid or inferior? Of course not. Like when he goes mental over American football, yet it does absolutely nothing for me.

Not everybody likes the same things - or appreciates the same things. Look at music. I get sick of people telling me that, "All classical music sounds the same". Really, you think a baroque organ piece sounds like a 20th century flute concerto? I am a huge Tom Waits fan, as I love the emotions he puts me through. Most people though, just don't get him, and are like, "He's crap..."

I don't expect EVERYBODY to like speedway, but it surprises me that there aren't more. As has been said on here many times, speedway just isn't "cool' for most people. You could have speedway on terrestrial TV every night of the week, at prime time, and most would turn it straight off. Sad thing is, it could be the best speedway we've ever seen, but if they don't "get it", it does absolutely bugger all.

I know that British promoters rarely "promote", but quite honestly, what good would it do? If they could even afford it... As I've said before, everyone thinks they KNOW the answer, but the reality is that they DON'T. There are many reasons why speedway doesn't have the following it used to, but many of the reasons have nothing to do with the sport itself. We can't control everything, and we certainly can't control the way people think...

Excellent post

I would watch speedway in the "pouring rain in the middle of a field " every night of the week but there are the majority who would not give it the time of day sat in a corporate box munching filet steak and best bubbly.  

[mikebv]

I think fundamentally UK Speedways issue is the return it gets on its "huge" outlay...

Well over a million next season will be spent collectively on circa 200 meetings in the top two leagues that, sadly, have very little meaning other than providing a salary for the riders...

That's an an enormous of amount of money shelled out to get so little cut through and recognition for their sport by the promoters..

Yet they continue doing the same thing year on year....

I would suggest less (but meaningful) meetings, with the same outlay but as "prize money" would attract a much larger overall following for the sport, given each meeting could be marketed as a stand alone event, with clear quality control of riders, presentation standards, fan engagement etc....

Theres too much of a "any speedway is better than no speedway" view, which then leads to its contrived operating model, and a dumbing down of standards, which ultimately will restrict fan interest and growth of the sport...

 

 

[jenga]

speedway , it is what it is .  a part time ,£10 pound sport trying to be a professional one , 

[Technik]

If you can go to your local track to watch speedway each week or when you think it will be a better event you can choose.

F1 comes to your country once a year weather its a good race or as dull as ditch water you will pay the entry fee to watch.

[BangerBoy]

On 12/12/2021 at 7:39 PM, KeirStarmerFan said:

How is our great sport a million miles from F1. I watched today's classic race and it is so much more exciting than speedway.

The BSI have failed speedway.

Classic race what was you watching?

 

[Teromaafan]

On 12/12/2021 at 7:39 PM, KeirStarmerFan said:

How is our great sport a million miles from F1. I watched today's classic race and it is so much more exciting than speedway.

The BSI have failed speedway.

So F1 is more exciting than speedway? You are are having a laugh. The most boring speedway race you will ever see lasts one minute. A ‘thrilling’ F1 race lasts how long with how much overtaking? F1 is all about technology and sponsorship. F1 is totally reliant on sponsorship and race day attendance revenue is an insignificant drop in the ocean. Unless speedway can adopt an aggressive marketing approach it will remain a minority sport. So F1 and speedway are motor sports. How many F1 followers actually know what speedway is, never mind having an interest or not?

 

[f-s-p]

On 12/14/2021 at 1:20 AM, Humphrey Appleby said:

Think a new promotion is long overdue and it'll be interesting to see whether they take things further than ING/BSI. 

How can they? IMO the only thing that is better than it was in 2000 is Ekstraliga, which can be argued is now as a good of a product as SGP. Overdue or not, no comments.

Everything else regarding our sport has... Well, you should know. 

[moxey63]

 

Speedway is so far behind F1 because it has tried to be the same.

It has gone from a team sport to just a bunch of individuals pretending to represent a team.

Edited December 16, 2021 by moxey63

[jenga]

how many time do you get to see a F1 race in the UK. just once ! followers of F1 save up for the one off meeting in their country and go because they can say , i was  in the crowd in 19 o blonk . 

if they ran F1 , say twice a month , the crowds would fall off big style . 

speedway every weel , almost ! 

two wheels are better than four anytime . 

ask Guy Martin what he thinks of F1 ...........

[BangerBoy]

5 hours ago, moxey63 said:

 

Speedway is so far behind F1 because it has tried to be the same.

It has gone from a team sport to just a bunch of individuals pretending to represent a team.

Hear Hear

 

[mikebv]

10 hours ago, moxey63 said:

 

Speedway is so far behind F1 because it has tried to be the same.

It has gone from a team sport to just a bunch of individuals pretending to represent a team.

But typically have ploughed on with the same unfit for purpose operating model, regardless of the obvious negative impact to the sport in the UK that it brings...

[moxey63]

18 hours ago, mikebv said:

But typically have ploughed on with the same unfit for purpose operating model, regardless of the obvious negative impact to the sport in the UK that it brings...

Speedway racing can be the best form of entertainment. But going trackside to watch the spectacle becomes slightly samey if you don't have a dog in the race, a team in the true sense of the word or a favourite rider. How can you possibly turn up at a track and support what is often a list of seven men thrown together simply because their average fits... and the track's race day, which also allows them the to race for at least one other team? 

The sport has lost its characters, its personalities and, more importantly, the reason most of us tagged on in the first place - the team thing. Now it seems so much like Formula 1. If I would have wanted a sport like F1 to follow, I would have followed that. In fact, growing up, I used to get annoyed when people asked "speedway - is that Barry Sheene?" I wasn't at all interested in motorcycling, never have been. I told them it was league racing and not about individuals. Speedway was special, it was about my team, Belle Vue.

It wasn't just about motorbikes. I didn't want to support one individual, as motorcycling and F1 required much of the time, I wanted to follow a team. In doing that, you got your own favourites in that team, at times not even its star man. But, now, speedway isn't anywhere near that. I see riders gaining the most from it nowadays and get the feeling they'd ride anywhere. It isn't about loyalty now. They just want a team place for next year. Maybe it's always been the case.

But I genuinely think the way the sport has gone in the last two decades - an over reliance on doubling up and down, has killed off the team thing that most fans fell for. Although it's seen as being popular, the play-off system has also killed off reason to have six months of warm up matches just to get there. Then , after a few matches of higher than average crowds that the PO Finals drag from indoors (where've they been all year?), we end the season thinking the sport is in better shape than we thought.  

Edited December 17, 2021 by moxey63

[martinmauger]

Jumping in late (been a l-o-n-g week): I was at my mate's house (a HUGE F1 fan ) the other weekend and he was tearing his hair out over of the final F1GP controversy, I just laughed telling him this kind of thing has occured in speedway many times.  Thing is F1 is pretty the pinacle of worldwide motorsport, pretty much ace-ing everything else, a TV executive once said 3 biggest sporting events on TV are: the Olympics, Football World Cup & F1.  In F1 one or two teams dominate for a season or so, others catch up then another team usually dominates, rinse & repeat, has always been the way.  One good idea is for standardised cars and drivers draw lots, or whatever, each race but standardised cars was tried a few years ago with A1GP, it didn't catch on.  Other formulae, like F3, F2, Formula 3000, Formula Atlantic, Formula Ford, Indy Cars / Champ Cars, etc the actual cars don't look that different to F1 & the racing is arguably better - but they aren't F1. 

That said I just cannot abide BSB or MotoGP,  a few laps and I switch channels - and I'm into bikes in general, but a lot folk I know are massively into road racing - and probably the team brand names: Ducati Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, etc even more adn tell you who used what brand of tyres, etc.  When I mention the riders queue up behind each other for lap after lap  all on the same line awaiting a mistake or fall, they look at me like I have 2 heads.  Obv road bike racing, like F1, is about the ideal racing line and 'chasing the dirt' doesn't happen, but I don't think a lot of modern race cicuits help the racing, many seem to be endless left, right, left, right and difficult for riders to get into a racing rythm.  That said I love the Isle Of Man TT Races.  That and speedway.  Great riders of the past; Barry Briggs, the late Ivan Mauger, Peter Collins, Mike Lee, Bruce Penhall, the late Kenny Carter, etc  were somewhat household names, at least some extent when the sport was regularly on ITV's World Of Sport, but these days sadly few non-fans have heard of Artem Laguta, let alone Tai Woffinden.

Before this becomes a novel: even worse these days, many non-fans haven't heard of speedway.....

Edited December 19, 2021 by martinmauger
(hopefully making more sense)

[mikebv]

26 minutes ago, martinmauger said:

Jumping in late (been a l-o-n-g week): I was at my mate's house (a HUGE F1 fan ) the other weekend and he was tearing his hair out over of the final F1GP controversy, I just laughed telling him this kind of thing has occured in speedway many times.  Thing is F1 is pretty the pinacle of worldwide motorsport, pretty much ace-ing everything else, a TV executive once said 3 biggest sporting events on TV are: the Olympics, Football World Cup & F1.  In F1 one or two teams dominate for a season or so, others catch up then another team usually dominates, rinse & repeat, has always been the way.  One good idea is for standardised cars and drivers draw lots, or whatever, each race but standardised cars was tried a few years ago with A1GP, it didn't catch on.  Other formulae, like F3, F2, Formula 3000, Formula Atlantic, Formula Ford, Indy Cars / Champ Cars, etc the actual cars don't look that different to F1 & the racing is arguably better - but they aren't F1. 

That said I just cannot abide BSB or MotoGP,  a few laps and I switch channels - and I'm into bikes in general, but a lot folk I know are massively into road racing - and probably the team brand names: Ducati Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, etc even more adn tell you who used what brand of tyres, etc.  When I mention the riders queue up behind each other for lap after lap  all on the same line awaiting a mistake or fall, they look at me like I have 2 heads.  Obv road bike racing, like F1, is about the ideal racing line and 'chasing the dirt' doesn't happen, but I don't think a lot of modern race cicuits help the racing, many seem to be endless left, right, left, right and difficult for riders to get into a racing rythm.  That said I love the Isle Of Man TT Races.  That and speedway.  Great riders of the past; Barry Briggs, the late Ivan Mauger, Peter Collins, Mike Lee, Bruce Penhall, the late Kenny Carter, etc  were somewhat household names, at least some extent when the sport was regularly on ITV's World Of Sport, but these days sadly few non-fans have heard of Artem Laguta, let alone Tai Woffinden.

Before this becomes a novel: even worse these days, many non-fans haven't heard of speedway.....

The domestic sport in the 70's did as much marketing as it does today...

(ie. Virtually nothing)..

However, it didnt need to, as many of the riders mentioned got beamed into homes regularly during the summer months via one of only three TV channels..

(Well two really as BBC2 wasn't watched till Spike Milligan or Monty Python came on in the evening)...

Nowadays, that marketing of your product is key, Gulf Oil and many other big name brands came on board on the back of England's and English riders' successes shown on the World Of Sport and, less often, Grandstand, in many Saturday afternoons..

The product itself doesnt even have to be great, just passable will do, however, if the marketing of it bites into the consciousness of the populace you are on to a winner...

F1 is about watching 200mph mobile advertising boards which sit still at the start and end, and in the pits for tyre changes to maximise that advertisement...

Their marketing and hype far outweight the actual entertainment value put on track, and their target market attracts upmarket brand sponsors who wish to sell to that market.. 

Contrived 'Mickey Mouse' rules prevail in most sports and F1 clearly is one of them, unfortunately UK Speedway has too many to hide away so they stand out and almost take over the narrative.. 

UK Speedway will pay out for 200 or so meetings next season at what?. Around £10k a night for 14 riders and the other costs of running the meeting? (Or maybe more than £10k a night?)

However, if it is around £10k per meeting to run one, then that is circa £2 Million which is being spent collectively...

A HUGE amount being shelled out considering the return on it through fan numbers and the lack of wider knowledge of it around the country.. 

The sport, given its "raw materials"  should be much more well known and followed, however unfortunately with such a poor amount of marketing being done, it will never be..

[Vince]

I think there is a habit of comparing apples with pears. There are a lot of Speedway meetings every week so you can't compare it to F1, MotoGP or even BSB where there are just a few events available to watch live each year. 

Personally I'd like to think that with the correct marketing (as an extreme sport that is very dangerous in my opinion) things could improve a little. Otherwise though it is like the vast majority of live sport struggling to attract spectators. 

We hear that the characters are no more but the more outrageous behaviour has not only been ruled out by referees but also by a more cynical public who are less likely to accept such things as being real. So many of those antics and tantrums of the past would be dismissed as pantomine and fake by todays public with this forum leading the way.

I think that gradually the sport will devolve into being a lot more amateur racing where riders paying to race foot the bills and smaller teams of professional racers competing less often to attract spectators. That is the way almost all motor sport operates with a very small minority of races attracting enough spectators to be able to pay the racers.

[martinmauger]

I agree with most of the above 2 posts.  F1 used to have many or characters like Nigal Mansell love or hate him he was box office, similar with the late Ayrton Senna, like with the late Ivan Mauger people used to watch to see if he was beaten, and, like Ivan, he rarely was.  Similar with Michael Scumacher. Now, in F1 there is Daniel Riccardo and that's about it, character-wise. I don't watch Moto-GP but am aware of Valentino Rossi and like the late Barry Sheene & his no.7, (heck we have lost so many motorsport greats) you see many bikes , cars, t-shirts etc carrying Rossi's no.46.

We can discus all day the effect of TV on speedway, I won't ( can't be bothered TBH) but I'll give few interesting examples.

More people used to be at least aware of speedway due to ITV's World OF Sport, folk would watch all day anyway and at 3.10pm speedway was be shown so they would see it.

1976 World Final, people said "wow wasn't that Peter Collins brilliant he just kept passing everybody".  Yes.  Yes, he was and he certainly did.

1977 WF, a wee youngter had the house to myself for once (yay!) and almost all of the heats were shown one Saturday on World Of Sport AND on BBC's Grandstand (I know !).  Non fans told me how they saw "Ivan Mauger win in the pouring rain".

1978 WF, folk said "what a shame your Hull rider Ivan fell in his first race".

1979 WF, don't beleive it was shown on UK TV.

1980 WF, folk commented on Micheal Lee's win, an Englishman winning and another (Jessup) 2nd for change.

1981 Qualyfier at White City, Penhall v Carter pt1, "Penhall knocked him off !".

1981 WF, Wembley folk told me how exciting the meeting was & "that American guy won, he had some good races (well one) with Ole Olsen".  Incedntally, thsi meeting was shown on ITV, literally a few hours after the actual meeting ended, whilst many fans were still travelling home, few had video recorders in those days I didn't get to see it on TV for months when a test match England v USAs at Poole was rained off.

1982 Qualyfier at White CIty, Penhall ran a last, with unfortunate wheelies thrown in, to help other Americans qualify for Los Angeles: "what were those Yanks playing at, fans threw bottles & cans at them onto the track ?!".

1982 WF, arguments on Penhall v Carter pt2 incedent, "he knocked him off again didn't he, but he won again". Hate saying it but Carter fell on his own, sad but true, but people still argue over it (and isn't it fun to do so?).

Notice a pattern, by the way ?

1983 WF Norden Germany, few groups of heats, but not the entire meeting were shown, but spread throughout the day on BBC Grandstand, folk said to me "who is that guy who won, he just wiped the floor with everyone didn't he, but I've never heard of him ?".

'The Gundersen / Nielsen years' followed of course, great riders sure but not the characters, Mauger, Penhall, Carter, etc, were.

In other words (finally): many of the characters / personalities have gone from the sport and you need to make the effort searching for speedway on TV channels to view it.  So less viewing of the ridera & of the sport lead to less fans.  Not a comprehensive analysis by any means but a few reasons....

Edited December 21, 2021 by martinmauger
usual spelling x2

[steve roberts]

3 hours ago, martinmauger said:

I agree with most of the above 2 posts.  F1 used to have many or characters like Nigal Mansell love or hate him he was box office, similar with the late Ayrton Senna, like with the late Ivan Mauger people used to watch to see if he was beaten, and, like Ivan, he rarely was.  Similar with Michael Scumacher. Now, in F1 there is Daniel Riccardo and that's about it, character-wise. I don't watch Moto-GP but am aware of Valentino Rossi and like the late Barry Sheene & his no.7, (heck we have lost so many motorsport greats) you see many bikes , cars, t-shirts etc carrying Rossi's no.46.

We can discus all day the effect of TV on speedway, I won't ( can't be bothered TBH) but I'll give few interesting examples.

More people used to be at least aware of speedway due to ITV's World OF Sport, folk would watch all day anyway and at 3.10pm speedway was be shown so they would see it.

1976 World Final, people said "wow wasn't that Peter Collins brilliant he just kept passing everybody".  Yes.  Yes, he was and he certainly did.

1977 WF, a wee youngter had the house to myself for once (yay!) and almost all of the heats were shown one Saturday on World Of Sport AND on BBC's Grandstand (I know !).  Non fans told me how they saw "Ivan Mauger win in the pouring rain".

1978 WF, folk said "what a shame your Hull rider Ivan fell in his first race".

1979 WF, don't beleive it was shown on UK TV.

1980 WF, folk commented on Micheal Lee's win, an Englishman winning and another (Jessup) 2nd for change.

1981 Qualyfier at White City, Penhall v Carter pt1, "Penhall knocked him off !".

1981 WF, Wembley folk told me how exciting the meeting was & "that American guy won, he had some good races (well one) with Ole Olsen".  Incedntally, thsi meeting was shown on ITV, literally a few hours after the actual meeting ended, whilst many fans were still travelling home, few had video recorders in those days I didn't get to see it on TV for months when a test match England v USAs at Poole was rained off.

1982 Qualyfier at White CIty, Penhall ran a last, with unfortunate wheelies thrown in, to help other Americans qualify for Los Angeles: "what were those Yanks playing at, fans threw bottles & cans at them onto the track ?!".

1982 WF, arguments on Penhall v Carter pt2 incedent, "he knocked him off again didn't he, but he won again". Hate saying it but Carter fell on his own, sad but true, but people still argue over it (and isn't it fun to do so?).

Notice a pattern, by the way ?

1983 WF Norden Germany, few groups of heats, but not the entire meeting were shown, but spread throughout the day on BBC Grandstand, folk said to me "who is that guy who won, he just wiped the floor with everyone didn't he, but I've never heard of him ?".

'The Gundersen / Nielsen years' followed of course, great riders sure but not the characters, Mauger, Penhall, Carter, etc, were.

In other words (finally): many of the characters / personalities have gone from the sport and you need to make the effort searching for speedway on TV channels to view it.  So less viewing of the ridera & of the sport lead to less fans.  Not a comprehensive analysis by any means but a few reasons....

Good post!

[HackneyHawk]

On 12/17/2021 at 11:09 AM, moxey63 said:

Speedway racing can be the best form of entertainment. But going trackside to watch the spectacle becomes slightly samey if you don't have a dog in the race, a team in the true sense of the word or a favourite rider. How can you possibly turn up at a track and support what is often a list of seven men thrown together simply because their average fits... and the track's race day, which also allows them the to race for at least one other team? 

The sport has lost its characters, its personalities and, more importantly, the reason most of us tagged on in the first place - the team thing. Now it seems so much like Formula 1. If I would have wanted a sport like F1 to follow, I would have followed that. In fact, growing up, I used to get annoyed when people asked "speedway - is that Barry Sheene?" I wasn't at all interested in motorcycling, never have been. I told them it was league racing and not about individuals. Speedway was special, it was about my team, Belle Vue.

It wasn't just about motorbikes. I didn't want to support one individual, as motorcycling and F1 required much of the time, I wanted to follow a team. In doing that, you got your own favourites in that team, at times not even its star man. But, now, speedway isn't anywhere near that. I see riders gaining the most from it nowadays and get the feeling they'd ride anywhere. It isn't about loyalty now. They just want a team place for next year. Maybe it's always been the case.

But I genuinely think the way the sport has gone in the last two decades - an over reliance on doubling up and down, has killed off the team thing that most fans fell for. Although it's seen as being popular, the play-off system has also killed off reason to have six months of warm up matches just to get there. Then , after a few matches of higher than average crowds that the PO Finals drag from indoors (where've they been all year?), we end the season thinking the sport is in better shape than we thought.  

A brilliant post, I agree with every word. It is the team aspect and in particular TEAM RIDING that sets speedway apart from all other motorsports and needs to be capitalised on in order to save it.